Author Topic: bfguilford does Fazzari  (Read 6587 times)

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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2013, 09:56:24 AM »
Thanks, Norma and Bert. I was a little surprised that the white whole wheat didn't give it a little more flavor. I may try something else in the future... just don't know what yet (Type 85? Kamut? Spelt? Add a little ground flax?). Norma... I think I'm catching whatever you've got  :-D.

Barry
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Online norma427

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
I may try something else in the future... just don't know what yet (Type 85? Kamut? Spelt? Add a little ground flax?). Norma... I think I'm catching whatever you've got  :-D.

Barry

Barry,

I had to chuckle when you said you might be catching whatever I have.  I sure hope your experiments take you somewhere you want to go. ;D  I think I have tried whole wheat at least one time.

Norma
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2013, 08:48:21 PM »
Decreased the white whole wheat flour in this dough to 15 %, upped the hydration by 1% and changed the workflow a bit.

Flour (15% KA Organic White Whole Wheat; 42.5% each of Central Milling Organic High Mountain High Protein and KABF Organic Bread Flour
Water: 64%
IDY: 0.5%
Salt: 2%
EVOO: 2%
Honey: 2%

I used all the white whole wheat flour in the poolish and left it at 65 degree (slightly cooler) room temperature for 16 hours:
100 g KA White Whole Wheat
60 g Hi Mountain/High Protein
60 g KABF

Bulk fermented in the fridge for 70 hours, then balled and returned to fridge for 6 hours, followed by 3 hours at room temperature (65 degrees... so much for springtime in CT).

First one was sliced tomato, part-skim cubed mozzarella and part-skim Trader Joe's havarti cheese (first time using havarti, due to two unopened packages of part-skim mozz showing mold, despite the fact that they had 10 and 14 weeks left on their best before dates... get thee back to the store from whence you came, knaves!). Half had Trader Joe's pesto as a base; half was just minced garlic and dried basil. No photos. 12-rear-old critic preferred no pesto (and he LOVES pesto on his pasta); wife and I preferred with pesto.

Second pie was a white broccoli, with same cheese combo, minced garlic and dried basil (c'mon 12-year-old critic... time to branch out a bit, kiddo). Sprayed both liberally with EVOO after putting on the cheese.

Baked for 4:00 with broiler on high all the way, lifting the pies off the soapstone at the 3 minute mark.

Very tender inside a minimally crunchy exterior. Less bread-y mouth feel than when using 25 percent KA White Whole wheat, and very tasty. Once again, I found that putting a couple of slices back into the oven for 45 seconds after around 5 minutes of cooling gave it a little more crunch.

Next time... I may add around 1-2 percent ground flax seed for flavor and fiber ::).

Barry
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 07:05:35 PM by bfguilford »
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2013, 08:42:07 PM »
It's been a while. Tried something a little different.

Decreased the white whole wheat flour in this dough to 12.5 %, and kept the hydration at 64%.

Flour (12.5% KA Organic White Whole Wheat; 43.75% each of Central Milling Organic High Mountain High Protein and KABF Organic Bread Flour
Water: 64%
IDY: 0.5%
Salt: 2%
EVOO: 2%
Honey: 2%
Ground flax seed (golden): 0.5%

I used all the white whole wheat flour in the poolish again, and left it at 75 degree room temperature for 16 hours. Bulk fermented in the fridge for 72 hours, then balled and returned to fridge for 6 hours, followed by 2 hours at room temperature.

First one was sliced tomato, sauteed garlic scapes and basil from our garden (first time using anything out of the garden this year), and the star of the show... peppadew peppers (I found a mixture of green, red and yellow peppers at the olive bar at te grocery store... left the green ones there), part-skim cubed mozzarella and part-skim Trader Joe's havarti. I love the taste of the peppadews - just the right mixture of mildly hot and sweet. Second pie... skipped the tomatoes (peppadews, sauteed garlic scapes and basil). Topping-wise, this was my favorite pie in a long time... maybe ever. Crust was light and fluffy with a nice eggshell crunch to it. Not sure if the ground golden flax seed made much of a difference, but the bottom may have browned a little more evenly.

12-year-old critic is risking banishment from the table. When I asked him what he thought of the crust, he said "It's too light and fluffy, Dad. Can you make it more dense next time?" I just about choked, then explained that my friends on pizzamaking.com take pride in this kind of crust. He wasn't impressed. Anybody want a soon to be 13-year-old kid?!?  ::) Sigh...

Barry
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Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2013, 08:18:20 AM »
Barry
Your pizzas are looking excellent!!!!!  Now may I inject a thought?  If you've read a lot of stuff from different people here, you will know that baking at high temps promotes better oven spring, while baking at cooler temps will give you a crisper, more tender crust.  The reason I love the method you are trying, is that the reballing procedure takes care of the oven spring issue almost by itself, allowing one to bake a beautiful pizza in the home oven at normal temps.  Would you mind trying an experiment for yourself.....just once, forget about baking your pizza as fast as you can, and let it bake until the bottom is golden brown....I would just love to know what you think

John

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2013, 08:47:58 AM »
Barry
Your pizzas are looking excellent!!!!!  Now may I inject a thought?  If you've read a lot of stuff from different people here, you will know that baking at high temps promotes better oven spring, while baking at cooler temps will give you a crisper, more tender crust.  The reason I love the method you are trying, is that the reballing procedure takes care of the oven spring issue almost by itself, allowing one to bake a beautiful pizza in the home oven at normal temps.  Would you mind trying an experiment for yourself.....just once, forget about baking your pizza as fast as you can, and let it bake until the bottom is golden brown....I would just love to know what you think

John


Thanks John. Your thoughts are ALWAYS welcomed.

I actually backed off the temperature to 525 degrees this time and left the pizza on the soapstone for the full 4 minutes. The bottom was a little more golden that the photo would lead you to believe (bad lighting), but nowhere near golden brown. Another thought is that the uneven browning may have something to do with me launching my pies with a "Super Peel" with its cloth "conveyer belt" (www.superpeel.com). One of these days, I'll make the change to a regular peel.

Next time, I'll lower it even more and aim for 5-ish minutes (Scott... please forgive me :-[) and not blast it with the broiler quite so early (I use the broiler on high for the full 4 minutes now). What temperature would you suggest?

Barry
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Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2013, 11:01:23 AM »
Barry
In a perfect pizza world, the top and bottom of the pizza are done at exactly the same time.  Given that we all use different ovens and oven set ups, one has to experiment with what he has.  For some reason my home oven can get my quarry tiles up to 620 degrees if I want it too.  I have found that by putting a layer of quarry tile on the very top rack of my oven, I am creating an oven inside my oven....that is, I have never had to use my broiler when baking pizza.  Having said that, I've baked many at 560 to 575 degrees, just to see if I could.  There seems to be enough heat in top of the oven to bake the top beautifully.
As for your mention of Scott, he's probably forgotten more things than I will possibly ever know.  In his writings, he says he would rather have a hotter oven to get oven spring, than a cooler one to get crispness (sorry, if I mistate...but that is close!!).   All I'm saying is, the method takes care of the oven spring issue, now you get a bonus because you can bake the bottom to perfection also.  So, it is possible for this pizza to have a crisp tender bottom with the cloud like qualities above that....your son might even like it!!  If I were going to experiment in your oven, I'd start it all the way up.....without the boiler, just to see what happens......if it fails, it's still good eats!!!

John

Online JD

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2013, 01:27:30 PM »
  All I'm saying is, the method takes care of the oven spring issue, now you get a bonus because you can bake the bottom to perfection also.  So, it is possible for this pizza to have a crisp tender bottom with the cloud like qualities above that....your son might even like it!!  If I were going to experiment in your oven, I'd start it all the way up.....without the boiler, just to see what happens......if it fails, it's still good eats!!!
John

Pizza is so subjective. I love a 90s Neapolitan, but for NY style I prefer 7 minutes over 4. My goal is to recreate pizza I grew up with, and I've been very pleased.   

I use 1/2" steel and apply the reball technique as suggested by Fazzari (actually first learned about it from this thread I believe so thanks to you both!) The combination of steel & reballing allows me to do my lower temp 7 minute bake with little to no impact on spring. From what I've seen with your soapstone experiments, you should expect the same if you're willing to go the full 7 minutes. 5 is a good start though.

Scott is passionate about true early NY style, and his advice is excellent if that is your goal. But experimenting & trying new styles can be fun, so I second the notion of turning your oven down at least once.
Josh

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2013, 01:47:36 PM »
Now may I inject a thought?  If you've read a lot of stuff from different people here, you will know that baking at high temps promotes better oven spring, while baking at cooler temps will give you a crisper, more tender crust. 

I personally have never felt that baking a cooler temps promotes a more tender crust. The most tender crusts I have ever had are baked at 1000F. The toughest crusts I have ever had are baked slow and cool. IE little caesars.

Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2013, 01:28:24 PM »
What temperature would you suggest?

Barry
Barry
Just to be clear (and this is my opinion only!).  I would bake my pizza in as hot an oven as it would take for the top and bottom to be  done as close to the same time as possible.  In your oven, if this means you must use your broiler, than use it, but don't let the use of the broiler leave the bottom underbaked.  That is what I meant by a cooler oven.  Again, my opinion only.....continue making excellent pizzas!!

John


Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2013, 01:21:03 PM »
Thanks for the input guys. I'll sit with it for a while and figure out my next step. Right now, with summer here, I'm thinking about getting a Blackstone oven and moving pizza baking outside for a while, which may delay the experimenting.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline Pauley

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2013, 02:14:36 AM »
John and Barry,

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but John's recipe caused me to rethink mine. (Which got many good reviews from fam and friends in the past)  :D

I have 4 doughs in the fridge that have been there since Sunday PM. I will be making some pies on Wednesday and am anxious to see the results. I am not seeing much rise in fridge as I did with my recipe. Fridge temp is between 35-40 F. Do you guys see much with yours before you re-ball the dough?

I will be sure to get some pics to show results - that is, if the results are positive. haha

Paul

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2013, 06:20:06 PM »
John and Barry,

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but John's recipe caused me to rethink mine. (Which got many good reviews from fam and friends in the past)  :D

I have 4 doughs in the fridge that have been there since Sunday PM. I will be making some pies on Wednesday and am anxious to see the results. I am not seeing much rise in fridge as I did with my recipe. Fridge temp is between 35-40 F. Do you guys see much with yours before you re-ball the dough?

I will be sure to get some pics to show results - that is, if the results are positive. haha

Paul

Paul: I would estimate that mine doubled in the fridge during the first 48-60 hours, and then came close to tripling after being at room temperature for 2-3 hours.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2013, 11:07:37 PM »
First bake in my Blackstone.

Flour (65% Central Milling Organic High Mountain High Protein; 35% KABF Organic Bread Flour)
Water: 63%
IDY: 0.45%
Salt: 2%
EVOO: 2%
Honey: 2%

Used 40% of flour and water in poolish. 16 hours at room temp. Final dough cold fermented for 48 hours, then at room temp for 2.5 hours.
It's been so long that my stretching skills have gone to rat poop, and the skin was pretty uneven.

Topped with roasted garlic, fresh Sungold tomatoes and basil from the garden, and Peppadew peppers (I'm really getting addicted to these little beauties) and part-skim mozzarella. Forgot to spray it with EVOO so the cheese was a little uneven.

Blackstone bottom stone was at 600 at launch. Forgot to get a reading on top stone.
4 minute bake.

Really nice pie with pretty good top/bottom heat balance from the Blackstone. This is the first time I've ever gotten a golden brown bottom (just for you, John ;)). I expected more char. I think I'll increase the heat by around 50 degrees next time. Looking at the pics, the rim looks HUGE on the top shot, and it wasn't... just the angle of the camera.

Barry

« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 11:23:42 PM by bfguilford »
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Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2013, 11:26:33 PM »
Beautiful pie Barry!!!!!!  Looks to me like the top and bottom were done at the same time...that's perfection in my book.  Tell me about the flavor and texture....I can see it...but tell me!!

John

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2013, 11:35:49 PM »
Beautiful pie Barry!!!!!!  Looks to me like the top and bottom were done at the same time...that's perfection in my book.  Tell me about the flavor and texture....I can see it...but tell me!!

John

Thank you, John. The flavor was good, as was the texture even with the unevenness of the crust (that's get better once i get back into the swing of things). It was only a 48+ hour cold ferment, so the flavor wasn't quite a complex as with a longer ferment. I have enough dough left for one more dough ball, and will probably make it tomorrow so we'll see what happens. As far as the texture goes, I think the ones I did on the soapstone in the home oven were a little more pillow-y (if that's a word), but I think the soapstone unloads the heat quite differently than the cheap, thin stone that comes with the Blackstone, and it will be better with another 50 degrees of heat. I pretty sure my lousy dough stretching didn't help either. I will certainly be trying your wonderful recipe again.

Barry
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2013, 10:39:38 AM »
Barry,
As you may(or may not) know, I've been waiting(suggested)someone do a Fazzari dough on the BS so I am staying tuned here. Great first bake, thanks!  :chef:
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2013, 04:51:40 PM »
Barry,
As you may(or may not) know, I've been waiting(suggested)someone do a Fazzari dough on the BS so I am staying tuned here. Great first bake, thanks!  :chef:

Thanks Bob. More to come for sure... probably tonight.

Barry
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 07:04:38 PM by bfguilford »
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2013, 07:10:55 PM »
More to come for sure... probably tonight.

Kind of prophetic, wasn't I? Another white pie with roasted garlic (I roasted a lot yesterday), tri-colored peppadews (maybe a few too many... gasp), basil and part-skim mozz. I remembered to spray the mozz with EVOO tonight, and it may have melted a bit more evenly.

Here's tonight's bake. Launched at 700 in the Blackstone and went for 3:00 on the nose. The increase in temperature meant that I got the additional bit of char that was missing (for me, John, not for you :D) in last night's bake. The texture was more what I've become used to with this recipe. Crust was light and pillow-y inside a nice eggshell crunch (more like what I was getting indoors on the soapstone). The Blackstone certainly works for this style pie.

Barry
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Offline Needssalt

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2013, 10:56:12 PM »
That looks awesome^^^.