Author Topic: bfguilford does Fazzari  (Read 12084 times)

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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2013, 01:21:03 PM »
Thanks for the input guys. I'll sit with it for a while and figure out my next step. Right now, with summer here, I'm thinking about getting a Blackstone oven and moving pizza baking outside for a while, which may delay the experimenting.

Barry
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Offline Pauley

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2013, 02:14:36 AM »
John and Barry,

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but John's recipe caused me to rethink mine. (Which got many good reviews from fam and friends in the past)  :D

I have 4 doughs in the fridge that have been there since Sunday PM. I will be making some pies on Wednesday and am anxious to see the results. I am not seeing much rise in fridge as I did with my recipe. Fridge temp is between 35-40 F. Do you guys see much with yours before you re-ball the dough?

I will be sure to get some pics to show results - that is, if the results are positive. haha

Paul

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2013, 06:20:06 PM »
John and Barry,

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but John's recipe caused me to rethink mine. (Which got many good reviews from fam and friends in the past)  :D

I have 4 doughs in the fridge that have been there since Sunday PM. I will be making some pies on Wednesday and am anxious to see the results. I am not seeing much rise in fridge as I did with my recipe. Fridge temp is between 35-40 F. Do you guys see much with yours before you re-ball the dough?

I will be sure to get some pics to show results - that is, if the results are positive. haha

Paul

Paul: I would estimate that mine doubled in the fridge during the first 48-60 hours, and then came close to tripling after being at room temperature for 2-3 hours.

Barry
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2013, 11:07:37 PM »
First bake in my Blackstone.

Flour (65% Central Milling Organic High Mountain High Protein; 35% KABF Organic Bread Flour)
Water: 63%
IDY: 0.45%
Salt: 2%
EVOO: 2%
Honey: 2%

Used 40% of flour and water in poolish. 16 hours at room temp. Final dough cold fermented for 48 hours, then at room temp for 2.5 hours.
It's been so long that my stretching skills have gone to rat poop, and the skin was pretty uneven.

Topped with roasted garlic, fresh Sungold tomatoes and basil from the garden, and Peppadew peppers (I'm really getting addicted to these little beauties) and part-skim mozzarella. Forgot to spray it with EVOO so the cheese was a little uneven.

Blackstone bottom stone was at 600 at launch. Forgot to get a reading on top stone.
4 minute bake.

Really nice pie with pretty good top/bottom heat balance from the Blackstone. This is the first time I've ever gotten a golden brown bottom (just for you, John ;)). I expected more char. I think I'll increase the heat by around 50 degrees next time. Looking at the pics, the rim looks HUGE on the top shot, and it wasn't... just the angle of the camera.

Barry

« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 11:23:42 PM by bfguilford »
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Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2013, 11:26:33 PM »
Beautiful pie Barry!!!!!!  Looks to me like the top and bottom were done at the same time...that's perfection in my book.  Tell me about the flavor and texture....I can see it...but tell me!!

John

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2013, 11:35:49 PM »
Beautiful pie Barry!!!!!!  Looks to me like the top and bottom were done at the same time...that's perfection in my book.  Tell me about the flavor and texture....I can see it...but tell me!!

John

Thank you, John. The flavor was good, as was the texture even with the unevenness of the crust (that's get better once i get back into the swing of things). It was only a 48+ hour cold ferment, so the flavor wasn't quite a complex as with a longer ferment. I have enough dough left for one more dough ball, and will probably make it tomorrow so we'll see what happens. As far as the texture goes, I think the ones I did on the soapstone in the home oven were a little more pillow-y (if that's a word), but I think the soapstone unloads the heat quite differently than the cheap, thin stone that comes with the Blackstone, and it will be better with another 50 degrees of heat. I pretty sure my lousy dough stretching didn't help either. I will certainly be trying your wonderful recipe again.

Barry
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2013, 10:39:38 AM »
Barry,
As you may(or may not) know, I've been waiting(suggested)someone do a Fazzari dough on the BS so I am staying tuned here. Great first bake, thanks!  :chef:
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2013, 04:51:40 PM »
Barry,
As you may(or may not) know, I've been waiting(suggested)someone do a Fazzari dough on the BS so I am staying tuned here. Great first bake, thanks!  :chef:

Thanks Bob. More to come for sure... probably tonight.

Barry
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 07:04:38 PM by bfguilford »
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2013, 07:10:55 PM »
More to come for sure... probably tonight.

Kind of prophetic, wasn't I? Another white pie with roasted garlic (I roasted a lot yesterday), tri-colored peppadews (maybe a few too many... gasp), basil and part-skim mozz. I remembered to spray the mozz with EVOO tonight, and it may have melted a bit more evenly.

Here's tonight's bake. Launched at 700 in the Blackstone and went for 3:00 on the nose. The increase in temperature meant that I got the additional bit of char that was missing (for me, John, not for you :D) in last night's bake. The texture was more what I've become used to with this recipe. Crust was light and pillow-y inside a nice eggshell crunch (more like what I was getting indoors on the soapstone). The Blackstone certainly works for this style pie.

Barry
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Offline Needssalt

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2013, 10:56:12 PM »
That looks awesome^^^.   

Offline corkd

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2013, 11:04:00 PM »
That peppadew pie looks great! Beautiful crust as well. I noted what you said about spraying the part skim mozz with oil.. I used some last week along with some uncured bacon, & the bacon fat really helped the cheese out....

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2013, 10:03:45 AM »
Thanks Needssalt and corkd.

@corkd: Scott123 turned me on to using oil to help the part-skim cheese melt, and as usual, his advice was great. I'm sure that bacon fat helps... probably more (but I don't eat meat, so I'll never find out).

Barry
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Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2013, 10:36:00 PM »


Here's tonight's bake. Launched at 700 in the Blackstone and went for 3:00 on the nose. The increase in temperature meant that I got the additional bit of char that was missing (for me, John, not for you :D) in last night's bake. The texture was more what I've become used to with this recipe. Crust was light and pillow-y inside a nice eggshell crunch (more like what I was getting indoors on the soapstone). The Blackstone certainly works for this style pie.

Barry
Barry,
Lest you think I don't enjoy a little char, I have a two stone that I use to bake my experimental neapolitans on....and I think the char is just fine for those.
Here's a little experiment I did just for you......I'm using basically the same recipe as you except my flour is All Trumps.  All week I have been baking pizzas in the 580 to 600 degree range and they have been excellent.  Today, I decided to try one in a cooler oven.
This dough has been in the fridge 144 hours.  It was reballed about 12 hours prior to bake....and it was baked in a cool 545 degree oven.  Believe it or not, it took 8 minutes and 10 seconds to get this thing the color I wanted.  It got rave reviews from all my critics here, and I seconded their opinions.  The brownness (is that a word?) of the bottom adds a level of flavor to the crust that we all seriously love here.  And by the way, even with the long bake, we enjoyed the egg shell thin, crispiness bottom that was as tender as I've experienced.  For what it's worth, the texture has more to do with the reball, than the temperature of the oven.  Keep experimenting Barry...it's all good eats!!

John


Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2013, 10:44:53 PM »
That's just flat out beautiful, John. 6 day dough... I was wondering how far you could push it. Was that all in bulk until the last 12 hours? For you, 545 is a cool oven. For me, that's all I can get on a good day from my home oven. I'm trying to imagine what an 8+ minute bake would look like in my oven... much darker I think. Is the All Trumps malted?

I'm going to continue to experiment for sure. You inspire me!

Barry
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Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2013, 03:04:48 PM »
That's just flat out beautiful, John. 6 day dough... I was wondering how far you could push it. Was that all in bulk until the last 12 hours? For you, 545 is a cool oven. For me, that's all I can get on a good day from my home oven. I'm trying to imagine what an 8+ minute bake would look like in my oven... much darker I think. Is the All Trumps malted?
This week I scaled and balled everything before refrigerating.  Barry, it's not the temperature of my ovens that was important in this experiment, it was the relative differences in the temperatures I used which caused much differing baking times.  When I am baking, if the bottom browns too fast, I throw a screen under it to slow it down to catch up to the top.  All Trumps is malted.

John

Offline JD

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2013, 03:08:35 PM »
John/Barry,

If you are reballing a lower hydration dough, do you have any problem opening the skin in a consistent manner (thin or thick spots)?


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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2013, 03:15:21 PM »
John/Barry,

If you are reballing a lower hydration dough, do you have any problem opening the skin in a consistent manner (thin or thick spots)?

I'm not John or Barry, but I have major problems re-balling low relative hydration (as relating to absorption value) doughs. If I can't pinch the re-ball completely shut, forget a good stretch. I do oil my initial balls, though, so maybe using less oil or no oil might help in this regard.


Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2013, 03:58:19 PM »
John/Barry,

If you are reballing a lower hydration dough, do you have any problem opening the skin in a consistent manner (thin or thick spots)?

Sorry JD. I don't know because I've never tried.

I'm not John or Barry, but I have major problems re-balling low relative hydration (as relating to absorption value) doughs. If I can't pinch the re-ball completely shut, forget a good stretch. I do oil my initial balls, though, so maybe using less oil or no oil might help in this regard.

I use oil as well, and imagine that it would make it pretty difficult, if not impossible to pinch the reballed dough shut completely.

John: Do you oil yours?

Barry
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 04:00:13 PM by bfguilford »
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2013, 04:02:47 PM »
This week I scaled and balled everything before refrigerating.  Barry, it's not the temperature of my ovens that was important in this experiment, it was the relative differences in the temperatures I used which caused much differing baking times.  When I am baking, if the bottom browns too fast, I throw a screen under it to slow it down to catch up to the top.  All Trumps is malted.

John

OK, I understand what you're driving at. I've never tried to use a screen to slow the bottom down because, as you pointed out a while back,  I've always been in a hurry :-D and hit it with the broiler to speed up the top browning.

Barry
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Offline JD

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2013, 05:50:58 PM »
I'm not John or Barry, but I have major problems re-balling low relative hydration (as relating to absorption value) doughs. If I can't pinch the re-ball completely shut, forget a good stretch. I do oil my initial balls, though, so maybe using less oil or no oil might help in this regard.

I'm learning this the hard way I believe. I was able to pinch the bottom shut last night, but I have a feeling it will still be lumpy tonight when I try to open it. It is a 63% All-trumps dough with only 1.5% oil. Last week I did a 66% AT and I had no issues at all re-balling.

I really love what re-balling does to the final product, but I believe there is a fine line (based on hydration) where it starts to create other issues.

Offline fazzari

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2013, 07:42:25 PM »
I'm not John or Barry, but I have major problems re-balling low relative hydration (as relating to absorption value) doughs. If I can't pinch the re-ball completely shut, forget a good stretch. I do oil my initial balls, though, so maybe using less oil or no oil might help in this regard.
There really is a fine line in absorption rates which makes this process easier.  Now, having said that, I've changed my methods over time....now I make the very top of the dough ball (as seen from the container), the interior of my new ball, pulling the soft oily dough from the bottom around the top.  This seems to make the process easier.
But one final important point, as has been noted before....this dough just isn't meant to be extremely thin (too thin a dough seems to take away all of the good characteristics which make it different from other doughs...so, it really isn't a New York style dough).  The only reason I mention this is that even when I can't get a reball completely closed using this dough, it doesn't do a lot of harm because I'm not trying to get to a .85 thickness.  I'm happy with a little bit thicker pizza and that little bit of thickness helps hide whatever flaws are there.
John

Offline bfguilford

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2014, 09:23:20 PM »
Well... I've been away for a long time, initially because of a crazy work schedule that was keeping me out of town 3-4 days a week (thankfully, that's over... I'm down to one day a week now) and then because of health issues at home (my wife is now on the mend 5 weeks after major surgery).

I finally had the time to put together a Fazzari dough.

Dough
Flour: 15% organic KA white whole wheat; 85% organic KABF
Water: 64%
IDY: 0.4%
Salt: 2.25%
Oil: 1.5%
Sugar: 1.5%

Poolish made of 40% of flour at 50% hydration

Normal procedure from earlier in thread, with a 3 day cold ferment, 2.5 hours at room temp. Fired up the very lonely looking Blackstone. Bottom stone at approx 600 and top stone at approx 725 for first pie - a white margherita (garlic, basil, tomatoes, mozz and a spray of EVOOw ,with peppadews on half).. That came out a little uneven, with the bottom pretty pale. It was tasty though - declared by the 13-year-old critic and wife.

Balanced the heat better for the second pie (garlic, basil, broccoli, mozz and a spray of EVOO, again with peppadews on half). Much better browning and char on the bottom, and even tastier I was told.

Third pie was half garlic, mozz and basil and half everything else that was left over. Also balanced better.

Dough handling skills are rusty, to say the least, but they started to come back a bit. It's good to be back with friends, and I'll be participating more regularly again, now that my life is back to what passes for normal around here.

We finally planted some tomatoes, basil, chard, kale, etc. in our community garden plot last weekend, and the garlic is looking good. I can't wait to be able to work with produce that tasted like something after a very long New England winter and cold spring.

Barry
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 09:26:46 PM by bfguilford »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2014, 09:33:05 PM »
Well... I've been away for a long time, initially because of a crazy work schedule that was keeping me out of town 3-4 days a week (thankfully, that's over... I'm down to one day a week now) and then because of health issues at home (my wife is now on the mend 5 weeks after major surgery).

I finally had the time to put together a Fazzari dough.

Dough
Flour: 15% organic KA white whole wheat; 85% organic KABF
Water: 64%
IDY: 0.4%
Salt: 2.25%
Oil: 1.5%
Sugar: 1.5%

Poolish made of 40% of flour at 50% hydration

Normal procedure from earlier in thread, with a 3 day cold ferment, 2.5 hours at room temp. Fired up the very lonely looking Blackstone. Bottom stone at approx 600 and top stone at approx 725 for first pie - a white margherita (garlic, basil, tomatoes, mozz and a spray of EVOOw ,with peppadews on half).. That came out a little uneven, with the bottom pretty pale. It was tasty though - declared by the 13-year-old critic and wife.

Balanced the heat better for the second pie (garlic, basil, broccoli, mozz and a spray of EVOO, again with peppadews on half). Much better browning and char on the bottom, and even tastier I was told.

Third pie was half garlic, mozz and basil and half everything else that was left over. Also balanced better.

Dough handling skills are rusty, to say the least, but they started to come back a bit. It's good to be back with friends, and I'll be participating more regularly again, now that my life is back to what passes for normal around here.

We finally planted some tomatoes, basil, chard, kale, etc. in our community garden plot last weekend, and the garlic is looking good. I can't wait to be able to work with produce that tasted like something after a very long New England winter and cold spring.

Barry
Most excellent post and faaaantastic looking pies Barry.
Glad you are back in the saddle man!

CB
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Offline norma427

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #73 on: May 25, 2014, 05:46:25 AM »
Barry,

Glad to see you back on the forum.  I agree, your pies look delicious!

Norma

Offline deb415611

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Re: bfguilford does Fazzari
« Reply #74 on: May 25, 2014, 07:16:43 AM »
pies look great!   I was driving through Guilford a few weeks ago and was wondering where you were, good to see you back and good that your wife is on the mend.
Deb