Author Topic: Jet's versus Buddy's?  (Read 2415 times)

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Offline Skee

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Jet's versus Buddy's?
« on: February 19, 2013, 05:27:16 PM »
Looks like Jet's is going to open a location in south Austin and I'm curious how they compare to Buddy's ; a friend of mine from Michigan says that Jet's is far superior to Buddy's.  I see from their menu pics that the sauce is under the cheese, but it looks like they have the same cheddar crust edge and use the same pans.  The reviews are either "love it" or "hate it" with comments about the thin crust running pretty much all negative but better for the "deep-dish" (they don't say "Detroit" on the menu from what I read).

Anyone been to both and can make a comparison?


Online shuboyje

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 10:07:48 PM »
Jet's is a Detroit Staple.  They are by far the biggest chain of Detroit Style pizza with at least one in every city in the suburbs.  It's a chain version, and it is topped different then Buddies, but it is a very similar pizza.
-Jeff

Offline norma427

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 08:47:35 AM »
Britt,

I have never been to Jetís or Buddyís to have any of their pizzas for comparison sake, but I have tried to make Jetís pizzas on the Jetís thread and now am trying to make Buddyís pizzas.  You are right that they look somewhat similar, but at least for me I do like the Buddyís clones I have been working on recently better.  I guess the higher hydration is what makes me like the Buddy's clone pizzas better.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 02:02:39 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Skee

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 11:47:57 AM »
but I have tried to make Jetís pizzas on the Jetís thread and now am trying to make Buddyís pizzas.
I did a search for "jet's" and didn't see any threads, which seemed odd, so I posted this.  I just went and searched again, and it doesn't show this thread either, so must be a hiccup in the search engine?  I'll try googling for it instead.

Offline norma427

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 01:26:57 PM »
I did a search for "jet's" and didn't see any threads, which seemed odd, so I posted this.  I just went and searched again, and it doesn't show this thread either, so must be a hiccup in the search engine?  I'll try googling for it instead.


Britt,

When using the search features of this forum apostrophes canít be used.  Just type in Jets.  This is the Jetís thread. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.0.html  You can see the Jetís attempts I did there.  If you want links to where I tried Jetís pizza I can provide them.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 02:02:26 PM by norma427 »
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 01:41:40 PM »
I did a search for "jet's" and didn't see any threads, which seemed odd, so I posted this.  I just went and searched again, and it doesn't show this thread either, so must be a hiccup in the search engine?  I'll try googling for it instead.

Britt,

Norma posted just before I went to hit the Post button. My post is additive to Norma's and provides some additional information and advice.

As Norma noted, there is a hiccup in the forum's search feature, whether you use the basic or Advanced search feature. For some reason, the forum's search engine cannot search words with apostrophe s ('s). Steve tried to fix this problem but was not successful. That is why I alerted the members of this shortcoming in the sticky on using the forum's search features at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3101.0.html. My best advice when searching words with apostrophe s is to use the Custom Google search feature that can be accessed on the index page of the forum. The downside of that search is that you can end up with a lot more hits to go through.

I believe the Jet's thread you are looking for is the one that Norma referenced at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg71152.html#msg71152. I spent considerable time researching the Jet's pizza and feel that I know the major differences between a Jet's pizza and a Buddy's pizza. I have never had either pizza so what I know is only what I have found through my research. If you'd like to spare yourself the effort and time of reading through the Jet's thread, I can summarize the differences that I have noted between the square pizzas made by Jet's and Buddy's.

Peter

Offline Skee

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 02:02:32 PM »
If you'd like to spare yourself the effort and time of reading through the Jet's thread, I can summarize the differences that I have noted between the square pizzas made by Jet's and Buddy's.
Thanks for the info on searching, Peter and Norma, figured it was something like that (and should have done a search on searching, too!). 

If you'd be so kind as to post a summary on Jet's vs Buddy's, Peter, it would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 05:08:29 PM »
Britt,

Here you are:

The Pans and Ovens. Both Jet's and Buddy's use the same rectangular pans, of the same general type, in the same two sizes (8" x 10" and 10" x 14"). Both companies use conveyor ovens to bake their pizzas. Typically, a pizza at Jet's takes about 8 minutes to bake at about 500 degrees F; at Buddy's, the corresponding numbers are 11-12 minutes at 495 degrees F. Jet's uses corn oil to lubricate its pans (more on this below) whereas Buddy's uses soybean oil some other vegetable oil or blend, possibly containing canola.

The Dough: As you know, Buddy's dough contains only flour (bleached and bromated with a protein content of 12.2%), water, yeast and maybe salt. There is no oil or sugar. The Jet's dough comprises flour (allegedly a proprietary blend that is bleached but not bromated), water, yeast, salt, sugar and oil (corn oil), although the oil part of the dough is most likely due to the corn oil in the pans that ends up in the dough, and possibly oil used to coat the dough balls. I estimate the hydration of the Jet's dough to be around 65%. While we don't know exactly what hydration Buddy's uses for its doughs, everything points to a higher hydration than 65%. I believe that you can see signs of the lower hydration of the Jet's crust from the last photo at Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg135948.html#msg135948.

Based on the Jet's nutritional information and what we know about the Buddy's pizzas, a Jet's four-square cheese pizza weighs more than a Buddy's four-square cheese pizza. I believe the explanation is that Jet's uses a larger dough ball than Buddy's uses for its four-square cheese pizzas. However, that shouldn't be taken to mean that the Jet's crust will be thicker than a Buddy's crust, given that Buddy's higher hydration dough may yield a taller but more open and airy crust than Jet's.

Both the Jet's dough and the Buddy's dough can be characterized as emergency doughs and, as such, contain a fair amount of yeast. Both make their dough balls starting early in the morning. Jet's uses lids to cover their pans with the dough balls in them, whereas Buddy's keeps its pans uncovered but cross stacked. Jet's dough is intended to be used throughout the day (the lower hydration helps extend the fermentation period) but it has coolers that some franchisees use to hold any leftover dough at the end of final service to be used the next day (although there are some franchisees who simply discard the dough after the final service). I have seen no evidence that Buddy's uses coolers to extend the period of use of their dough balls.

The Cheese. Jet's uses only low moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese from Grande, in shredded form. Grande confirmed that to me in an email. Buddy's uses brick cheese only, in diced form, and most likely from Foremost Farms. The Jet's nutritional information suggests a lot of cheese but samples of their cheese pizzas as purchased by one of our members from a local Jet's did not confirm that. In fact, the weighed pizzas came in below the numbers indicated in the Jet's nutritional information. Buddy's says that it uses approximately eight ounces of cheese on its four-square pizzas, and double that for its eight-square pizzas.

As for the crispy cheese edges that are characteristic of the classic Detroit-style pan pizzas, it is not clear that using mozzarella cheese alone can produce that effect, or do so consistently. See, for example, the first and second photos at Reply 70 referenced above. Those photos also show the characteristic browning of mozzarella cheese. Brick cheese does not exhibit that characteristic to nearly the same degree. Jet's says that the mozzarella cheese that it uses on its pizzas is made from the milk of contented cows that have their own mattresses and listen to opera. We have not asked Buddy's, nor have they voluntarily revealed anything, about the habits or music preferences of the cows whose milk is used to make their brick cheese.

The Pizza Sauce. To the best of my knowledge, both Jet's and Buddy's use tomato products from Stanislaus Products. Jet's adds water (and spices also) to the tomatoes they use, so most likely they are using a concentrated tomato product from Stanislaus, of which there are several to choose from. Buddy's also adds water to its tomato product (also with spices), so the particular tomatoes it uses will be fairly thick to begin with. Since all of the Stanislaus tomato products are made from fresh-pack tomatoes, the major taste differences might be attributed to using different spices.

As can be seen in the photos at Reply 70, the Jet's pizza sauce is below the cheese. It is uniformly applied, not in dollops and stripes on top of the cheese as at Buddy's. Pepperoni is always on top, not under the cheese.

Pizza Prices. As best I can tell, a Jet's four-square cheese pizza at the new Austin location sells for $7.59 (https://order.jetspizza.com/Menu.aspx?T=t&RestaurantID=be2de82f-c4b3-4001-9dcf-bc8764347cce). A Buddy's four-square cheese pizza sells for $7.99 (at its 6 Mile location).

The Common Detroit Origins. Both Jet's and Buddy's have their origins in Michigan. And I think that it is safe to say that the square pizzas of both companies are "Detroit style". However, I have never seen Jet's refer to its pizzas as Detroit style. I believe that is because they are tying to become a national chain and do not want to be viewed as predominantly a Detroit style pizza maker, especially since they also sell round pizzas and may have plans for other types of pizza in the future. Hence, I believe that they have intentionally disassociated themselves from a branding standpoint from the Detroit style.

If you are able to sample the Jet's pizza in its new Austin location, I hope you will provide some feedback on your experience, and to confirm or deny what I have presented above if appropriate. You might even be able to add more to what I have presented above, given that you are already an expert on the Detroit style and know what to look for, or even questions to ask if you can get a willing worker to reveal things to you.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 07:54:38 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 07:03:00 PM »


The Pans and Ovens. Both Jet's and Buddy's use the same rectangular pans, of the same general type, in the same two sizes (8" x 10" and 10" x 14"). Both companies used conveyor ovens to bake their pizzas.

The Dough: As you know, Buddy's dough contains only flour (bleached and bromated with a protein content of 12.2%), water, yeast and maybe salt. There is no oil or sugar. The Jet's dough comprises flour (allegedly a proprietary blend but not bromated), water, yeast, salt, sugar and oil (corn oil), although the oil part of the dough is most likely due to the oil in the pans that ends up in the dough, and possibly oil used to coat the dough balls. I estimate the hydration of the Jet's dough to be around 65%. While we don't know exactly what hydration Buddy's uses for its doughs, everything points to a higher hydration than 65%. I believe that you can see signs of the lower hydration of the Jet's crust from the last photo at Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg135948.html#msg135948.

Based on the Jet's nutritional information and what we know about the Buddy's pizzas, a Jet's four-square cheese pizza weighs more than a Buddy's four-square cheese pizza. I believe the explanation is that Jet's uses a larger dough ball than Buddy's uses for its four-square cheese pizzas. However, that shouldn't be taken to mean that the Jet's crust will be thicker than a Buddy's crust, given that Buddy's higher hydration dough may yield a taller but more open and airy crust than Jet's.

Both the Jet's dough and the Buddy's dough can be characterized as emergency doughs and, as such, contain a fair amount of yeast. Both make their dough balls starting early in the morning. Jet's uses lids to cover their pans with the dough balls in them, whereas Buddy's keeps its pans uncovered but cross stacked. Jet's dough is intended to be used throughout the day (the lower hydration helps extend the fermentation period) but it has coolers that some franchisees use to hold any leftover dough at the end of final service to be used the next day (although there are some franchisees who simply discard the dough after the final service). I have seen no evidence that Buddy's uses coolers to extend the period of use of their dough balls.

The Cheese. Jet's uses only low moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese from Grande, in shredded form. Grande confirmed that to me in an email. Buddy's uses brick cheese only, in diced form, and most likely from Foremost Farms. The Jet's nutritional information suggests a lot of cheese but samples of their cheese pizzas as purchase by one of our members from a local Jet's did not confirm that. In fact, the weighed pizzas came in below the numbers indicated in the Jet's nutritional information. Buddy's says that it uses approximately eight ounces of cheese on its four-square pizzas, and double that for its eight-square pizzas.

As for the crispy cheese edges that are characteristic of the classic Detroit-style pan pizzas, it is not clear that using mozzarella cheese alone can produce that effect, or do so consistently. See, for example, the first and second photos at Reply 70 referenced above. Those photos also show the characteristic browning of mozzarella cheese. Brick cheese does not exhibit that characteristic to nearly the same degree. Jet's says that the mozzarella cheese that it uses on its pizzas is made from the milk of contented cows that have their own mattresses and listen to opera. We have not asked Buddy's about the habits or music preferences of the cows whose milk is used to make their brick cheese.

The Pizza Sauce. To the best of my knowledge, both Jet's and Buddy's use tomato products from Stanislaus Products. Jet's adds water (and spices also) to the tomatoes they use, so most likely they are using a concentrated tomato product from Stanislaus, of which there are several to choose from. Buddy's also adds water to its tomato product (also with spices), so the particular tomatoes it uses will be fairly thick to begin with. Since all of the Stanislaus tomoato products are made from fresh-pack tomatoes, the major taste differences might be attributed to using different spices.

As can be seen in the photos at Reply 70, the Jet's pizza sauce is below the cheese. It is uniformly applied, not in dollops and stripes on top of the cheese as at Buddy's. Pepperoni is always on top, not under the cheese.

Pizza Prices. As best I can tell, a Jet's four-square cheese pizza at the new Austin location sells for $7.59 (https://order.jetspizza.com/Menu.aspx?T=t&RestaurantID=be2de82f-c4b3-4001-9dcf-bc8764347cce). A Buddy's four-square cheese pizza sells for $7.99 (at its 6 Mile location).

The Common Detroit Origins. Both Jet's and Buddy's have their origins in Michigan. And I think that it is safe to say that the square pizzas of both companies are "Detroit style". However, I have never seen Jet's refer to its pizzas as Detroit style. I believe that is because they are tying to become a national chain and do not want to be viewed as predominantly a Detroit style pizza maker, especially since they also sell round pizzas and may have plans for other types of pizza in the future. Hence, I believe that they have intentionally disassociated themselves from a branding standpoint from the Detroit style.

If you are able to sample the Jet's pizza in its new Austin location, I hope you will provide some feedback on your experience, and to confirm or deny what I have presented above if appropriate. You might even be able to add more to what I have presented above, given that you are already an expert on the Detroit style and know what to look for, or even questions to ask if you can get a willing worker to reveal things to you.

Peter


Peter,

Very good summary of the differences between a Jetís pizza and a Buddyís pizza.

Norma
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Offline Qarl

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 07:34:39 PM »
ANyone have a copycat formulation for Jets Bread...  it's basically pizza dough with mozzarella and parmesan and garlic butter...



Offline Skee

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2013, 11:40:03 AM »
Thanks for the concise comparison between Jet's and Buddy's, that's exactly what I was hoping for when I posted! 

I'll keep an eye on the Jet's location in south Austin and when it's open I'll take the boy over (he's an expert on pizza for sure, about the only thing he eats other than tacos and bbq) and we'll give it a try.  I think he'll immediately notice the lack of cheddar crust as a minus but he likes the sauce under the cheese better than on top, so that'll be a plus.

Offline Skee

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2013, 10:25:56 AM »
Finally had time to try Jet's last Saturday and took the boy with me for a second opinion.  The south Austin store is in a small strip mall and is set up for to-go only with a few cafe tables outside on the sidewalk.   Had a coupon for a free slice and ordered a small deep-dish, both cheese.  The store is long and narrow, you walk by the pizza-making area on your way in, and they have it set up for viewing, so I parked by the glass and watched while we waited.  Seemed like a lot of employees were new and the manager was spending a lot of time directing traffic, but they were turning out the product at a fair clip - obviously already popular from the amount of traffic through the door, mostly pre-ordered pickups.  The free slice came up first and the manager gave the counter girl some grief for not letting them know that we also had a pizza on order, but we were going to eat it there anyway so I set the boy up with the slice outside while I kept watching the crew.  Total time to get the pizza was 14-15 minutes.

Crust was light and crispy, with yeast as the major flavor (could have used more salt), sauce was simple and applied in a good ratio to the crust and cheese, the cheese was tasty, and if not Grande it was something really close, had a buttery note and great texture.  The edge crust was nothing special with almost no browned cheese flavor and not enough snap.  I noticed that their pans were not black yet and there was a little more oil on the crust than I like, maybe to keep them from sticking while they get the pans up to speed.  There was a fairly heavy gumline, too.

Overall, the pizza was rated a 7 by both of us with the only real complaint, given the ingredients that they use, that the crust was not browned enough.  A friend of mine has eaten there a couple of times and he agrees - he orders his "extra crispy" and says it's a big improvement.  When I mentioned this to my son as we dissected the pie on the way home, he said that the re-heat piece was better, too - they put the individual slices on a pan and put them back on the conveyor for a couple minutes, so they're crispier.

At $7 for an 8x10, it's a bargain - if I didn't have dough in the fridge, wouldn't hesitate to go there again.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Jet's versus Buddy's?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2013, 10:31:35 PM »
Brett,

Based on my prior Jet's research and looking at the Jet's Nutrition information, I would say that you are right on the low salt levels. I would estimate a bit over 1%.

Peter


 

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