oils vs melted shortenings in dough:

[c0mpl3x]

i've been using shortening more lately as i get a much firmer, tender, crisp to my crust.   usually work my dough out at 64-65% hyd, before fats are added.  usually 1-1.5% oil, 2-4% if melted shortening.  seems that the oil has more of a 'soft, chewy' texture to the final product, despite me using more than twice the amount in shortening.   is there something i've missed on here that explains why?

[TXCraig1]

Your observations are consistent with mine and others on the forum. I don't know the chemisty, but solid fats tend to make crispier crusts. You don't use oil to make pie crust.

[Jackie Tran]

I am a big fan of using shortening over oil in a NY dough.  I have noticed that I also get a tender but drier, flakier, and perhaps crispier crust or less chewy as you've noticed.  I will say that whether oil or shortening, I use the same amount.

[c0mpl3x]

2 hour emergency (to you, not to me) dough

[Chicago Bob]

Your observations are consistent with mine and others on the forum. I don't know the chemisty, but solid fats tend to make crispier crusts. You don't use oil to make pie crust.

  You crack me up Craig!

[Pete-zza]

Jon,

Tom Lehmann has spoken on this topic on several occasions. You might check out the following;

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=6662#p6662

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=38840#p38840

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6110&p=38155&hilit=#p38163

See, also, Reply 75 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg64759/topicseen.html#msg64759

BTW, that is a good looking pizza. Have you posted the formulation before?

Peter

[c0mpl3x]

not yet, no.

100% BCBF
65% water
2.5% melted crisco
2% red star CY
1.8% mortons kosher
1% generic white sugar

heated water to 85, bloomed CY and sugar in it.   salt and flour were added to the bread mixer bowl, water was added when CY showed activity.   mixed for 14min in the bread machine until smooth (6min pulse, 8 minutes mix), let rest for 10min, removed dough, ripped into roughly 30g pieces, put back in, added semi congealed shortening, put back on until shortening was incorporated, and dough was smooth.   let rest for 20min, did a rotational stretch and fold twice around the dough, let rest 30min, balled into 3 equal balls (based off of 1000g flour for a final mass of 1701g) and one doughball was let counter rise.  i took this to my gf's work before i started dinner with the other two.   this recipe will not come out 'pretty' in less than 3 hours by my standards, but the two remaining balls did.   baked at 550, rotating two racks for two pizzas for even cooking

edit: i've had luck using about 1.5% salt and same amount of melted salted butter, has a richer mouth feel and marginally better taste.  i want to try butter crisco at some point when i have some 

[Chicago Bob]

Jon, thank you for the recipe. That pie looks real good.
It is very interesting how you ripped the dough into 30 small pieces and then proceded to add the shortening...is this a method you thought up to try?
Would you please help me understand exactly what you are saying here....(how long was your pictured dough left to rise)  thanks!

 and one doughball was let counter rise.  i took this to my gf's work before i started dinner with the other two.   this recipe will not come out 'pretty' in less than 3 hours by my standards, but the two remaining balls did.   baked at 550, rotating two racks for two pizzas for even cooking

[c0mpl3x]

it was roughly an hour and half, 45 mins tops from the last messing with to stretch.