Caputo "Neapolitan-Style" Deep-Dish Pizza

[Pete-zza]

For some time now I have been thinking about making a deep-dish pie with a Neapolitan influence. So, this weekend, I took a first step in that direction. What I originally had in mind as the ideal “Neapolitan-style” deep-dish pie was a deep-dish pie based on using a Caputo 00 pizzeria flour, DOP San Marzano tomatoes, buffalo mozzarella cheese, fresh basil, salami, and possibly other ingredients with an Italian influence. For good measure, I thought it might also be a good idea to use a natural preferment for leavening purposes, with the added objective of achieving an improved crust flavor. However, until I could prove out the concept, I decided to make a test deep-dish pie that was a few steps short of the ultimate Neapolitan style deep-dish pie I’d really like to make.

To this end, I did use the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour to make the dough for the test pizza, and I did use DOP San Marzano tomatoes. However, in lieu of the buffalo mozzarella cheese, I chose to use a combination of Grande whole-milk mozzarella cheese and Bel Gioioso fresh mozzarella (Cryopac) cheese. For toppings, I used vegetables, hot Italian sausage, and pepperoni. I realize that pepperoni is not an Italian invention but that was a proxy this time for salami.

For the dough, I essentially “designed” a formulation based on--dare I say it--baker’s percents. In doing so, I borrowed liberally on ideas from buzz and other deep-dish experts on the forum, as well as my own experiences using the Caputo 00 flour. I also decided to use a natural preferment, which I had used previously for a deep-dish pie with good results. The amount of dough was calculated to fit a 9 ˝” x 2” deep-dish pan. The formulation I ended up with was as follows:

Caputo "Neapolitan-Style" Deep-Dish Dough Formulation
100%, Flour (Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour), 7.95 oz. (225.17 g.), 1 3/4 c. + 1 T. + 1 t
43%, Water (room temp.), 3.42 oz. (96.82 g.), between 3/8 and 1/2 c.
1%, Sugar, 0.08 oz. (2.25 g.), a bit over 1/2 t.
2%, Sea salt, 0.16 oz. (4.50 g.), 3/4 t.
20%, Oil, 1.59 oz. (45.03 g.), 3 1/4 T. (Note: I used 3 T. canola oil and 1/4 T. light olive oil)
20%, Natural preferment dough, 1.59 oz. (45.03 g.)
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.12
Total dough ball weight = 14.77 oz. (418.82 g.)
Finished dough temperature = 68.6 degrees F.

To prepare the preferment dough, I took about 5 tablespoons of my unrefreshed natural preferment straight out of the refrigerator and added enough flour to make it into a smooth dough mass. It was then left overnight on my kitchen counter, for about 12 hours, to rise and ripen. Once it was ready the next morning I dissolved the salt in the water in a bowl and worked in the prescribed amount of preferment dough (1.59 oz.) with a wooden spoon. The preferment dough was about the size of a golf ball. I then added the bulk of the flour, worked that in, covered the bowl, and let the dough rest for about 20 minutes. After the rest period, the remaining flour was added, along with the sugar and the oil, and they were all worked into the dough by hand. This took only 1 1/2 to 2 minutes—just long enough to bring everything together into a cohesive ball. The finished dough ball was left to ferment at room temperature (about 65 degrees F) for about 12 hours. As expected, during this time, the dough hardly rose at all. I then punched the dough down, kneaded it just a bit, and let it continue its room temperature rise, for about another 12 hours. During the second rise, the dough expanded by about 40-50%, also pretty much as expected.

To assemble the pizza, the dough was flattened and pressed by hand into the 9 1/2” x 2” deep-dish pan. The dough fit perfectly in the pan, without any leftover. Slices of the Grande cheese were then placed on the bottom, followed by slices (well drained) of the Bel Gioioso fresh mozzarella cheese. The Grande cheese was used to serve as a barrier to the Bel Gioioso cheese to prevent the bottom crust from getting soggy. Next time, I plan to coat the bottom crust with olive oil and use only a fresh mozzarella cheese, most likely a buffalo mozzarella cheese, that has been very well drained. Alternatively, I might try pre-baking the crust for a few minutes.

For toppings, I used, in order, sauteed mushrooms and green peppers, caramelized onions, roasted red peppers (from a jar), hot Italian sausage (removed from its casing and pre-cooked until just pink), and pepperoni slices.

The sauce for the deep-dish pie was made from a 28-ounce can of Coluccio DOP San Marzano tomatoes that I had run through a food mill. Rather than discard the liquids, I reduced them over low-medium heat to a paste-like consistency, added some Penzeys pizza seasoning and dried mixed herbs, and recombined the reduced sauce with the rest of the tomatoes and some fresh basil. I then re-seasoned the finished sauce to taste. As it turned out, the single can was just about enough to cover the pie, with nothing to spare. The pie was topped with freshly grated Parmiagiano-Reggiano cheese.

The pizza was baked on the middle oven rack position in a 475-degree F preheated oven for about 20-25 minutes. Part way through the baking I covered the pizza with a sheet of aluminum foil to keep the exposed top crust from browning too quickly.

The series of photos below show the “Neapolitan-style” deep-dish pie at different stages. I thought the pie came out very well. It was extremely flavorful, with a biscuit-like crust. One of the things I noticed is that the multiple flavors of the sauce and toppings masqueraded the crust flavor to the point that I could not detect the usual crust flavors contributed by the use of the preferment. Next time, I plan to make an instant dry yeast (IDY) version of the formulation, and to strive for an entirely same-day pie which should be possible using the IDY with the Caputo 00 pizzeria flour. I most likely will make other changes also since it would be highly unlikely that I created the best pie the first time out.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

The finished pizza...

[chiguy]

 Hi peter,
 A very nice looking pizza and i am sure the primo ingrediants really helped make for a great taste. I noticed you have a thickness factor of .12 which seems low for a deep dish?? When i look at the pictures it appears to be a bit thicker than.12?? My only question is how do you come up with .12TF with a 14.77 dough weigth using your pan size 9 1/2x2in?? I have been using thickness factor for NY style since you turned me onto it at the PMQ site. It has really helped, thankyou.  Chiguy

[scott r]

You crazy b****rd

I want some 

[Pete-zza]

chiguy,

I just picked what appeared to be a thickness factor in the middle of the range of what I have used before. For example, if you go to the thread where I tried to reverse-engineer buzz’s reverse engineering of the Giordano’s deep-dish crust, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1585.0.html, you will see that I used thickness factors that ranged from 0.07 to 0.152. So, I picked 0.12 as a starting point. As another frame of reference, DKM’s deep-dish dough has a thickness factor of a bit over 0.13, by my calculation.

What I have discovered in making deep-dish pies is that the thickness of the sides of the crust is more likely to be governed by how the dough is pressed into the pan. Often the dough doesn’t like to stick to the sides of the pan, especially if the pan has a smooth coating and has been oiled, so the natural tendency is to keep pushing the dough up to the rim. This alone can thicken the sides of the crust. A way of getting around this is to roll out the dough to a uniform thickness and fit the rolled-out dough into the pan as best as possible without varying the dough thickness too much as it is pressed into the pan.

I also think that different flours can behave differently even when the same thickness factor is used. Also, if one allows a dough to proof before baking, as is often done with the deep-dish style, the dough can expand and produce a thicker crust. At that point, the thickness factor becomes less meaningful. The thickness factor is just another variable that can be subjected to experimentation with the deep-dish style just as it is with standard pies.

I might also add that I calculate--or I should say my spreadsheet calculates--dough weight differently from anyone else I know of, including Tom Lehmann. Tom L. just uses a higher thickness factor than for standard pies but uses the same per square inch (surface area) loading expression as for standard pies (3.14 x R x R x TF = Dough Weight). For example, he uses a loading factor of 0.12389 (TF) but sticks with the pan size (R = diameter/2) to calculate the final dough weight. See, for example, http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/noframes/read/25868. What I do differently is that I actually calculate the total surface area of the inside of the pan, including the bottom and sides, and apply a selected thickness factor to that figure rather than only the bottom (diameter) of the pan. I also make allowances for the fact that the dough on the bottom of the pan takes up about a quarter of an inch of the depth of the pan. I created a spreadsheet to crunch the numbers based on the size of the pan, its depth (or the desired depth of the dough at the sides), and the thickness factor I want to use. Consequently, the spreadsheet can be used to make dough for any size or depth of pan and the crust will have a uniform thickness. And, by changing the thickness factor, the crust can be made thicker or thinner, as desired. I am still tweaking the spreadsheet to see if it works reliably under different circumstances.

I suspect my next Caputo deep-dish pie will have a thicker crust. And I may even proof the dough in the pan before baking, or pre-baking, to get a lighter finished crust. This is easier to do when instant dry yeast (IDY) is used because a natural preferment can take forever to raise a dough. I have found that I personally like a thicker crust even though all of my deep-dish pies have been very satisfying. I also think that deep-dish pies are the easiest to make and the dough is much more forgiving than any other dough I have made.

Peter

[chiguy]

 Peter,
 I knew something looked different, thanks for clearing it up for me. I also calculate surface plus the height of the pan to get surface area. It has worked out great. Thanks again, Chiguy

[Pete-zza]

When I made my first Neapolitan-inspired Caputo deep-dish pie and reported on the results, I indicated that I planned to make an IDY (instant dry yeast) same-day version. I made such a version over the weekend. The formulation I used was as follows:

100%, Flour (Caputo Pizzeria flour), 8.80 oz. (248.85 g.), 1 3/4 c. plus 2 T. plus 1 t.
43%, Water (room temperature), 3.77 oz. (107 g.), between 3/8 c. and 1/2 c.
1%, Sugar, 0.09 oz. (2.49 g.), 5/8 t.
2%, Salt, 0.18 oz. (4.98 g.), a bit more than 7/8 t.
20%, Oil. 1.76 oz. (49.77 g.), a bit more than 3 1/2 T. (Note: I used 3 T. canola and 1/2 T. extra virgin olive oil)
1.5%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.13 oz. (3.73 g.), 1 1/4 t.
Finished dough weight = 14.70 oz. (416.82 g.) (for 9” deep-dish pan, using 2” of depth)
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.13
Note: All measurements are U.S./metric standard.

Making the dough was simplicity itself. The dough was made by hand. I dissolved the sugar and salt in the water in a bowl, combined the flour and IDY, and added the flour/IDT mixture to the water and stirred it in with a wooden spoon and using my hands. After the flour was pretty much incorporated, I added the oil and kneaded that in, by hand, for about 1 1/2 minutes. I then placed the dough in a container, covered, and set it aside at room temperature for about 7 1/2 hours. The dough about doubled in volume over the first few hours and remained essentially at that level for the remaining time.

To prepare the dough to fit my deep-dish pan (a dark, coated Cuisinart spring-form pan with a pan depth of 3”), I rolled out the dough to about 11”. I draped the rolled-out dough over the pan and finished shaping and pressing it by hand up to about two inches in the pan (see photo below). I did not oil the pan itself. I then proofed the dough in a humidified environment. I did this by boiling a cup of water and then placing the cup of water, along with the panned dough, uncovered, in my microwave oven. This combination, in effect, was my “proofing” box. I allowed the dough to proof for about 45 minutes. During that time, the dough noticeably rose and had a soft feel.

After proofing, the dough was dressed using the following sequence and ingredients: 1) a thin layer of shredded imported Auricchio Piccante provolone cheese; 2) slices of imported Cilento (Campana) mozzarella di bufala (which had been dried between paper towels and lightly salted with a basil-infused Sicilian sea salt); 3) sauteed diced green peppers and onions and fire-roasted red peppers (bottled); 4) fresh fennel pork sausage (partially cooked to the pink stage); 5) chiffonade fresh basil; 6) spicy sopressata (sliced paper thin and julienned); 7) a pureed sauce of La Regina DOP San Marzano tomatoes with reduced and sweetened juices and a few pinches of imported Sicilian wild dried oregano; 8) freshly-grated Reggiano-Parmigiano cheese; and 9) fresh basil leaves (on top of the pie after baking).

The pie was baked at around 450 degrees F, on the center oven rack position, for about 20 minutes. Using the spring-form pan made very easy work of releasing the pie from the pan. One of the nice benefits of using a spring-form pan is that if you are unsure whether the crust is finished baking you can remove the pie from the oven, release the pie, and check. If more bake time is needed, the pan can be latched again and put back in the oven.

The photos below show the finished product.  I felt that the pie was a big success. It had exceptional flavor, freshness and quality. The crust was soft and chewy in places and crispy and biscuit-like in others. With all the high-quality toppings and ingredients, it made for an elegant dish. In fact, I am hard pressed to know how I might improve upon it. I might try a slightly thicker crust the next time, but that would be about it. I might also note that the photos of the crust below show the crust with a lighter color than it actually was. The Caputo Pizzeria flour does inherently produce a lighter crust than other flours, but the crust was darker than the photos indicate.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

And the finished pie and typical slice....

[Matthew]

Thanks for the link Peter, just what I was looking for.  This is definitely right up my alley.  I have quite a bit of Caputo 00 left over from the summer & will probably not fire up the WFO up again until the spring.  You can tell how much I like winter & cold weather.  

I am thinking of giving it a shot using olive oil & possibly substituting some of the flour with semolina.  What do you think?  Also, from what I understand this (high oil dough) is a dough that requires very little kneading if any, is this correct?  What % of starter would you recommend?  I typically use 5-6% of total dough weight with most formulas.

Thanks,
Matt

[Pete-zza]

Matt,

I don't recall ever using semolina flour with the Caputo flour. If I were to consider it, my instincts would be not to overdo the semolina flour. As for the oil, I used the canola/olive oil blend with an emphasis on the canola oil because I thought that using all olive oil would emphasize that flavor too much. I wanted some of the richness and flavor of the olive oil but not too much.

You are correct about the short knead time. From much of what I had read about the Chicago deep-dish doughs made by other members, I came away with the impression that it was better to keep the knead times short if I wanted a biscuit-like crust texture.

My standard operating procedure when using natural preferments, especially when in doubt or trying a new dough for the first time, has been to use the preferment at about 20% of the flour weight. In part, that level reflected that my starters (including the one I used for the Neapolitan-inspired deep-dish) were rarely in tip-top fighting shape because I didn't use them often enough to optimize their use. On some occasions, for other types of pizzas, I would use even more preferment as a percent of the flour weight. 

If you proceed, I hope you will let us know how things turn out.

Peter

[Matthew]

Matt,

I don't recall ever using semolina flour with the Caputo flour. If I were to consider it, my instincts would be not to overdo the semolina flour. As for the oil, I used the canola/olive oil blend with an emphasis on the canola oil because I thought that using all olive oil would emphasize that flavor too much. I wanted some of the richness and flavor of the olive oil but not too much.

You are correct about the short knead time. From much of what I had read about the Chicago deep-dish doughs made by other members, I came away with the impression that it was better to keep the knead times short if I wanted a biscuit-like crust texture.

My standard operating procedure when using natural preferments, especially when in doubt or trying a new dough for the first time, has been to use the preferment at about 20% of the flour weight. In part, that level reflected that my starters (including the one I used for the Neapolitan-inspired deep-dish) were rarely in tip-top fighting shape because I didn't use them often enough to optimize their use. On some occasions, for other types of pizzas, I would use even more preferment as a percent of the flour weight. 

If you proceed, I hope you will let us know how things turn out.

Peter

Peter,
Thanks for your response & help.  My main thought on using just olive oil was inspired by an olive oil cake that I recently had & enjoyed very much.  Come to think of it, I agree on the semolina.  I'm thinking that it will interfere with the delicate Caputo texture that I really love.  What's your thought on using cream of tartar?  I have never used it in a dough & don't really know what impact if any that it has on the final product.  I know that it's great for whipping up a meringue; but that's about it.  Alot of the Deep Dish Masters on the forum swear by it so I figure it must do something.

I am planning on giving it a shot this weekend & will bring this thread back from the dead by posting my results.  Any suggestions from the "Deep Dish Boys" will be very much appreciated.

Matthew

[Pete-zza]

What's your thought on using cream of tartar? 

Matt,

Gino's East uses cream of tartar as a "dough conditioner" (according to its deep-dish ingredients list), but I have never tried it. However, several of our members have done so, apparently without incident. Cream of tartar is also one of the ingredients in the list of ingredients for the deep-dish dough calculating tool (http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html), with a recommended maximum baker's percent of 1%. I don't recall how we came up with that figure but it must have been recommended on the forum somewhere.

Peter

[Matthew]

Matt,

Gino's East uses cream of tartar as a "dough conditioner" (according to its deep-dish ingredients list), but I have never tried it. However, several of our members have done so, apparently without incident. Cream of tartar is also one of the ingredients in the list of ingredients for the deep-dish dough calculating tool (http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html), with a recommended maximum baker's percent of 1%. I don't recall how we came up with that figure but it must have been recommended on the forum somewhere.

Peter

Peter,
I have been extremely busy at work so I didn't have enough time to proof & use my starter.  I am planning on making the dough tomorrow morning for use tomorrow night using your formula with IDY & will be adding some cream of tarter.  I am using a 12" round pan with straight sides, I increased the TF to.14 based on your comment.  I may even go up to .15.  What I came up with is the following:

Flour (100% Caputo 00 Pizzeria):  383.06 g  |  13.51 oz | 0.84 lbs
Water (43%):                              164.72 g  |  5.81 oz | 0.36 lbs
IDY (1.5%):                                5.75 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.91 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Salt (2%):                                  7.66 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.37 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
Olive Oil (2%):                            7.66 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.7 tsp | 0.57 tbsp
Corn Oil (18%):                           68.95 g | 2.43 oz | 0.15 lbs | 5.11 tbsp | 0.32 cups
Sugar (1%):                                3.83 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.96 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Cream of Tartar (1%):                  3.83 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.28 tsp | 0.43 tbsp
Total (168.5%):                           645.46 g | 22.77 oz | 1.42 lbs | TF = 0.1421

I am planning on combining all the ingredients using a danish dough hook & then a quick 2 minute hand knead.

Look okay?

Matt

[Pete-zza]

Matt,

It looks like you have a real fusion between the Neapolitan style and the Chicago deep-dish style, with the corn oil and cream of tartar...LOL

If you wanted to lean the formulation more toward the Neapolitan style, you could use sunflower seed oil in lieu of the corn oil. As I understand it, the two oils that are most commonly used in Naples for the Neapolitan style are seed oils and olive oil.

Your dough formulation with the higher thickness factor value looks fine. I look forward to your results.

Peter

[Matthew]

Matt,

It looks like you have a real fusion between the Neapolitan style and the Chicago deep-dish style, with the corn oil and cream of tartar...LOL

If you wanted to lean the formulation more toward the Neapolitan style, you could use sunflower seed oil in lieu of the corn oil. As I understand it, the two oils that are most commonly used in Naples for the Neapolitan style are seed oils and olive oil.

Your dough formulation with the higher thickness factor value looks fine. I look forward to your results.

Peter

I bought the corn oil & the cream of tartar prior to seeing your thread,  so I figured why not 

Thanks again for your input & will report back on my findings.

Matt

[JConk007]

This looks great and a nice way to use up my leftover Caputo. Thanks Peter for posting.
Matt, I often use about 15-20% semolina with Caputo a freind from a resturant I frequent recommended it and said used to own a wood fired pizza place so I tried it and liked it!
John

[Matthew]

Peter,
The pizza turned out really good, I used the exact formula from my previous post but increased the TF to .15.  Being my 1st attempt, I really didn't have much to compare it to but as always I'm sure there is room for improvement.  I was extremely impressed with the ease of preparation & the overall dexterity of the dough.  It was nice & flaky & held up to the ingredients really well.  It was extremely easy to form with absolutely no spring back.  I used fresh scamorza, baby provolone, hickory smoked bacon, 6 in 1's that I drained for about an hour, Sicilian oregano, & some freshly grated parmigiano reggiano. 

My wife & I both found that the 6 in 1's for some reason where a little too sweet.  It could be because we are so used to San Marzano's.  Admittedly, I may have gone a little too heavy on the sauce, either way we felt that it really overpowered the other ingredients.  In my next attempt I will definitely reduce the amount of sauce.  I would also lower the TF to .14, .15 may be a little to thick.  Apart from that it was really good. 

I am trying to keep my indoor basil plant alive this winter so I pruned it right down so that it can sprout.  That's the reason for the tiny basil leaves.

It's a great recipe & I encourage other members give it a try now that this thread has resurfaced.  It's perfect for guys like me who have Caputo left over & don't use their WFO in the winter time.  Yes John, I'm talking about you!

[Pete-zza]

Matt,

Thanks for rescuing the recipe from the dustbin and giving it a new life. When I originally linked you to the recipe it was only to show you that you can use a natural starter/preferment to make a deep-dish pizza. When I first tried the pizza, I thought that the use of a starter/preferment, especially when also using Neapolitan ingredients and toppings, played nicely into the Neopolitan theme, particularly after we were all influenced by pizzanapoletana's (Marco's) use of natural leavenings. I agree that the San Marzanos may be a better choice for this type of pizza. I find it hard to mentally separate Caputo and San Marzano from each other. They are joined at the hip.

Your pizza looks tasty. It would be nice to get the feedback of other members who decide to attempt a similar pizza.

Peter

[Matthew]

Matt,

Thanks for rescuing the recipe from the dustbin and giving it a new life. When I originally linked you to the recipe it was only to show you that you can use a natural starter/preferment to make a deep-dish pizza. When I first tried the pizza, I thought that the use of a starter/preferment, especially when also using Neapolitan ingredients and toppings, played nicely into the Neopolitan theme, particularly after we were all influenced by pizzanapoletana's (Marco's) use of natural leavenings. I agree that the San Marzanos may be a better choice for this type of pizza. I find it hard to mentally separate Caputo and San Marzano from each other. They are joined at the hip.

Your pizza looks tasty. It would be nice to get the feedback of other members who decide to attempt a similar pizza.

Peter

Peter,
I'm not sure if it has been spoken about in previous threads, but my personal observation is that the true sourdough flavor when using a starter is significantly enhanced in high heat bakes.  I have found that using the same amounts of starter in a conventional oven temperature adds very little flavor to the dough.  I came to realize this a few weeks ago when I made my NY street pizza. It was the first pizza that I made in my indoor oven since the spring & the difference in the taste was significant even though the same proportion of starter was used. Definitely true on the Caputo & San Marzano's, they are a match made in pizza paradise & should never be separated.

Matt