Author Topic: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie  (Read 529 times)

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Offline Stavs

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Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« on: November 11, 2014, 01:45:46 PM »
    I'm going to be trying my hand at a Sicilian pie this weekend and had some questions. I've been reading through threads on here, but there is so much conflicting information it seems.

    1. For oiling the pan, should I use extra virgin olive oil, or regular olive oil? I thought I saw here that regular has a higher frying point.
    2. Thickness factor - .13 seems to be the number - is this right?
    3. Hydration - I've seen 58%, which seems low.
    4. Oil in the dough - Does 5% seem right?
    5. I saw one recipe where they put the dough in the pan, and then flipped it over so the top gets oiled up. Anyone try this?
    6. I can't seem to find a consensus on bake times. They seem to range anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes which seems like an awful large time swing
    7. Are people placing the pans directly on their stone/sheet? Preheating for an hour like for a NY style?
    8. Which position in the oven is best for a Sicilian pie?

    Thanks!


Offline JD

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 02:06:20 PM »
    I'm going to be trying my hand at a Sicilian pie this weekend and had some questions. I've been reading through threads on here, but there is so much conflicting information it seems.

    1. For oiling the pan, should I use extra virgin olive oil, or regular olive oil? I thought I saw here that regular has a higher frying point.
    2. Thickness factor - .13 seems to be the number - is this right?
    3. Hydration - I've seen 58%, which seems low.
    4. Oil in the dough - Does 5% seem right?
    5. I saw one recipe where they put the dough in the pan, and then flipped it over so the top gets oiled up. Anyone try this?
    6. I can't seem to find a consensus on bake times. They seem to range anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes which seems like an awful large time swing
    7. Are people placing the pans directly on their stone/sheet? Preheating for an hour like for a NY style?
    8. Which position in the oven is best for a Sicilian pie?

    Thanks!

The term Sicilian covers a broad spectrum of different styles of pizza. Are you trying to make NY style Sicilian? Detroit? Unknown?

Even if you narrow it down to NY, everyone has their own opinion on what is right. You'll see lots of higher hydration Sicilian pizzas, but I tend to use exactly the same dough as I use for my NY style pizza because my Uncle, who worked in NY pizzeria's decades ago, said they used the same dough for both styles. I don't think you'll find a consensus on any of your questions unfortunately.
Josh

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 02:12:27 PM »
 Stavs,

Rack position depends on where the heating element is located in your oven, bake time depends on how hot your oven can get and the maximum heat your pan can take.  When I first started making Sicilians at home,  the pan I was using just stunk and I could not get the middle of the pizza to cook at all.  Then I bought the right pan and am able to make a fool proof Sicilian every time.  My Sicilian formula uses 80% hydration, but there are many different formulas on this forum that use much less and still produce a good looking pie.  You just have to figure out where you want to start and adjust your formula based on prior results.

Take a look at this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,31228.0.html

Good luck!
Mary Ann

Offline Stavs

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 02:26:05 PM »
The term Sicilian covers a broad spectrum of different styles of pizza. Are you trying to make NY style Sicilian? Detroit? Unknown?

Even if you narrow it down to NY, everyone has their own opinion on what is right. You'll see lots of higher hydration Sicilian pizzas, but I tend to use exactly the same dough as I use for my NY style pizza because my Uncle, who worked in NY pizzeria's decades ago, said they used the same dough for both styles. I don't think you'll find a consensus on any of your questions unfortunately.

I guess my goal is to make probably what you described. Sicilian to me comes from the local mom and pop shops, I would suspect they do use the same dough. So let's assume you are using your same dough recipe, how long do you let it rise and such? Whats your technique?

Stavs,

Rack position depends on where the heating element is located in your oven, bake time depends on how hot your oven can get and the maximum heat your pan can take.  When I first started making Sicilians at home,  the pan I was using just stunk and I could not get the middle of the pizza to cook at all.  Then I bought the right pan and am able to make a fool proof Sicilian every time.  My Sicilian formula uses 80% hydration, but there are many different formulas on this forum that use much less and still produce a good looking pie.  You just have to figure out where you want to start and adjust your formula based on prior results.

I'm going to pick up a pan at Bova Foods in the next few days. My assumption is that is will be equivalent to what the lcoal shops in the area use. I believe they are the blue steel pans, but I cant remember. They're labeled as Sicilian pans, so I should be ok with the pan (just a matter of seasoning it properly).

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 02:31:01 PM »

I'm going to pick up a pan at Bova Foods in the next few days. My assumption is that is will be equivalent to what the lcoal shops in the area use. I believe they are the blue steel pans, but I cant remember. They're labeled as Sicilian pans, so I should be ok with the pan (just a matter of seasoning it properly).

My Lloyds pan is similar to what you're describing.  You should get a nice, even bake with the pan.  Please post your results.
Mary Ann

Offline Stavs

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 02:48:05 PM »
My Lloyds pan is similar to what you're describing.  You should get a nice, even bake with the pan.  Please post your results.

Will do. :) I'm still planning it out in my head. I'm thinking of all the Sicilian pizza's I've liked, and how I will do this one. Will I use shredded cheese or will I just use slices and then drizzle more sauce over the top, will the sauce just be crushed tomatoes, or will I jazz it up. I'm overthinking this way too much :D

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 03:23:30 PM »
That's the fun with experiments.  You'll figure out which way you like it the best and take notes to keep track of it all.  It could be like your own little pizza bible  :angel:
Mary Ann

Offline pizapizza

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 09:12:17 AM »
My Lloyds pan is similar to what you're describing.  You should get a nice, even bake with the pan.  Please post your results.

link to the pan?

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 12:24:30 PM »
I ordered the 14" square and lid.  Unfortunately, I couldn't fit anything bigger in my oven.  http://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/rectangular-pans-and-disks/sicilian-style-deep-dish

Also, if you check Amazon, there is a similar item that IIRC, some members here use and it's very similar to Lloyd's. They are called Paderno Blue Steel pans.
Mary Ann

Offline Stavs

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 12:20:17 PM »
That's the fun with experiments.  You'll figure out which way you like it the best and take notes to keep track of it all.  It could be like your own little pizza bible  :angel:

Well, I picked up some stuff today. Got a black buster 12x12 pan and a giant can of Stanislaus Full Red. Saturday will be the experimental day with this venture. So, I'm still kind of wondering about bake time and position. My heating element is on the top and the oven will reach 550 easily. I have both a stone and a steel, so I could go either way. What do you recommend for bake time and such? I'm going to just use the standard NY dough recipe for the crust.


Offline mbrulato

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 02:15:11 PM »
Stavs,

I used to use a stone before I had a good pan.  The black buster you bought should be made of similar material as my Lloyd's pan.  Trust your pan.  My workflow for Sicilian is this - Preheat oven to 500 degrees.  Remove dough from fridge 2 hours before baking.  Bake with sauce only for 15 minutes, then add cheese and bake for another 7 minutes or until the desired cheese browning is achieved.  Remove from pan and let cool on a cooling rack to prevent sogginess.  I believe member waltertore uses the same dough for his Sicilian as he does for his NY Style and it comes out great looking!  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26286.msg347735.html#msg347735

Can't wait to see pictures.  Good luck!!!
Mary Ann

Offline Stavs

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 02:43:19 PM »
Stavs,

I used to use a stone before I had a good pan.  The black buster you bought should be made of similar material as my Lloyd's pan.  Trust your pan.  My workflow for Sicilian is this - Preheat oven to 500 degrees.  Remove dough from fridge 2 hours before baking.  Bake with sauce only for 15 minutes, then add cheese and bake for another 7 minutes or until the desired cheese browning is achieved.  Remove from pan and let cool on a cooling rack to prevent sogginess.  I believe member waltertore uses the same dough for his Sicilian as he does for his NY Style and it comes out great looking!  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26286.msg347735.html#msg347735

Can't wait to see pictures.  Good luck!!!

Thanks! I think I'm all set then for Saturday. Fingers crossed it turns out good!

Offline norma427

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 05:36:47 PM »
Stavs,

Since you purchased a black buster steel pan, you could also make Greek pizzas too if that is something that interests you.  One I made is at Reply 143 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg125069.html#msg125069  Steve (Ev) also made Greek style pizzas in black buster pans.  Some are at Reply 361 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg173473.html#msg173473  Reply 364 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg173527.html#msg173527 and Reply 365 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg179540.html#msg179540 and at Reply 377 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg181191.html#msg181191

Norma
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Offline Stavs

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 05:53:11 PM »
Stavs,

Since you purchased a black buster steel pan, you could also make Greek pizzas too if that is something that interests you.  One I made is at Reply 143 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg125069.html#msg125069  Steve (Ev) also made Greek style pizzas in black buster pans.  Some are at Reply 361 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg173473.html#msg173473  Reply 364 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg173527.html#msg173527 and Reply 365 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg179540.html#msg179540 and at Reply 377 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg181191.html#msg181191

Norma

Thanks Norma! That's a great idea, and it didn't even dawn on me! This will work much better for me than the cast iron skillet!

Offline Stavs

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 06:55:27 PM »
Well here is my first sicilian in the black buster 12x12 pan. I pretty much followed Mary Annes suggestions from the other thread and was very pleased with the result. The dough was the Lehman recipe with some extra olive oil, and the sauce was a Stanislaus Full Red as a base. It didn't get as thick as I hoped, but it tasted very good. It was very crispy. It fermented in the fridge for a day, then I put it in the pan and let it ferment for another day in the pan. After that I let it sit out for 1 hour at room temp, and then another hour on top of the stove while the oven heated. Perhaps I need to use more yeast to get a higher rise?

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 08:22:25 PM »
Nice, Steve.  Any crumb shots?  Did it cook evenly with your new pan?
Mary Ann

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Re: Couple Questions About Making A Sicilian Pie
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2014, 08:27:11 PM »
Nice, Steve.  Any crumb shots?  Did it cook evenly with your new pan?

I didn't get any crumb shots sadly - I was too interested in eating it. Haha!! As far as cooking even, it was extremely even. Each slice was perfect and consistent. New pan was definitely worth it. Next time I think I may drizzle some sauce onto the top of the cheese, or I might even do it upside down and use slices of mozz on top of the crust, then the sauce.