My 100% hydration pizza pan

[sub]

Hi guys,

I usually cook the Neapolitan Style, but I wanted to try the Romana, so let me share that with you.

Flour: 1kg Spadoni PZ3 (W320 - don't use weaker flour )
Water: 1liter
Salt: 30gr
Fresh yeast: 12g

Water and flour cold from the fridge (5°C)
Put 80% of the water and all the flour, mix at slow speed until completely blended and then put your mixer at maximum speed and add a little  bit of the remaining water, wait until the dough form a mass on the hook and then add another bit of water, and again...
Add salt at the end. the mixing stage is complete when the dough don't get stuck to the bottom of the bowl.
The temperature of the dough should be between 18 and 22°C
Put directly in the fridge for 24hours.
Shape a ball and then let it rise at ambient temperature for 4-5 hours.
Put in the pan and bake at 250°C

[sub]

Continued . . .

[dellavecchia]

Outstanding job. I love the use of potatoes and rosemary.

Excellent approach to the flour as well, especially the attention to detail on the mix. I have a book by Daniel Leader in which he describes romana being made in Antico Forno in Rome. The dough is literally mixed on high for 20 minutes. They also allowed the flour to properly absorb the water as you described, being at such a high hydration. When the dough started to slap the side of the bowl it was done mixing.

John

[mitchjg]

Outstanding job. I love the use of potatoes and rosemary.

Excellent approach to the flour as well, especially the attention to detail on the mix. I have a book by Daniel Leader in which he describes romana being made in Antico Forno in Rome. The dough is literally mixed on high for 20 minutes. They also allowed the flour to properly absorb the water as you described, being at such a high hydration. When the dough started to slap the side of the bowl it was done mixing.

John

Looks beautiful!

You may want to glance at:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2984/jasons-quick-coccodrillo-ciabatta-bread

I made a batch of the semolina ciabatta yesterday.  My wife did not stop raving about it at dinner although most of my other breads are more complicated, require more planning and tending.  Go figure.  

The ciabatta is more like 80 -83% hydration.  One lesson here is that the mix needs to be at high speed (beat the heck out ofthe dough) for as long as 30 minutes for it to form a dough that slaps the side of the dough.  

If I can free myself from my wfo for a weekend, I will try this!

[norma427]

Sub,

Those crumb shots look beautiful! Thanks for giving your mixing methods.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

sub,

What you did reminded me of the pizza dough recipe at https://sites.google.com/site/hollosyt/quickrusticciabattapizza. I estimate the hydration of the dough for that recipe to be a bit over 90%. It was my recollection of how a dough with such a high hydration could be used to make a pizza that in part prompted me to suggest to Norma that she increase the hydration value of the dough that she was making for her Detroit style pan pizzas to 75%. Based on your results, she perhaps could go higher, especially if she uses a rest period part way into the knead to improve the handling characteristics of the dough for a commercial setting, but as a practical matter there is unlikely to be a need to go higher, or much higher, than the hydration value she is presently using. Yet, it would be an interesting exercise to try using 100% hydration for a Detroit style dough. I would think that getting a lot of oven spring out of such a dough would be tantamount to trying to lift a sponge loaded up with water.

Peter

[dellavecchia]

Yet, it would be an interesting exercise to try using 100% hydration for a Detroit style dough. I would think that getting a lot of oven spring out of such a dough would be tantamount to trying to lift a sponge loaded up with water.

Peter - Coming from the Pizzarium thread, one way to achieve oven spring for high hydration doughs is to cook them part way through with either just sauce on top or nothing, and then add ingredients and continue cooking for the duration of the bake. I believe that is what Sub did here from the progression of the pictures.

John

[Pete-zza]

Peter - Coming from the Pizzarium thread, one way to achieve oven spring for high hydration doughs is too cook them part way through with either just sauce on top or nothing, and then add ingredients and continue cooking for the duration of the bake. I believe that is what Sub did here from the progression of the pictures.

John,

Thank you. When I looked at Reply 1, I thought that what was shown was a basic cheese pan pizza. Since the article I referenced did not use a pre-bake, it did not occur to me to think of using a pre-bake as a way of getting greater height in the finished crust.

Peter

[sub]

Peter - Coming from the Pizzarium thread, one way to achieve oven spring for high hydration doughs is too cook them part way through with either just sauce on top or nothing, and then add ingredients and continue cooking for the duration of the bake. I believe that is what Sub did here from the progression of the pictures.

John

You're right John, it's exactly like Bonci do, you precook the base with only tomato sauce or evo 10 minutes directly on the bottom of the oven, then you put the toppings and bake again on a grill in the middle Rack of the oven until cook to your taste.

Cold water help high hydratation, I mix only 10 minutes.

I followed the great advices I've read on pizza.it from Massimo Bosco, look at his videos:

Pizza in teglia, pizzeria Massimo Bosco

[norma427]

Sub,

Thanks for posting that cold water helps high hydration doughs.  I didn't know that before.

I follow Massimo Bosco Pizzeria on facebook and marvel at some of his creations.  These are a few of them that I copied from Massimo Bosco's facebook page.  As it can be seen there aren't a lot of toppings on them, but the crumbs look amazing.

Norma

[mitchjg]

Peter - Coming from the Pizzarium thread, one way to achieve oven spring for high hydration doughs is too cook them part way through with either just sauce on top or nothing, and then add ingredients and continue cooking for the duration of the bake. I believe that is what Sub did here from the progression of the pictures.

John

Sub:

Is that what you did, cook part way and then add toppings?

- Mitch

[garyd]

Hi guys,

I usually cook the Neapolitan Style, but I wanted to try the Romana, so let me share that with you.

Flour: 1kg Spadoni PZ3 (W320 - don't use weaker flour )
Water: 1liter
Salt: 30gr
Fresh yeast: 12g

Water and flour cold from the fridge (5°C)
Put all the flour and 80% of the water  mix at slow speed until completely blended and then put your mixer at maximum speed and add a little  bit of the remaining water, wait until the dough form a mass on the hook and then add another bit of water, and again...
Add salt at the end. the mixing stage is complete when the dough don't get stuck to the bottom of the bowl.
The temperature of the dough should be between 18 and 22°C
Put directly in the fridge for 24hours.
Shape a ball and then let it rise at ambient temperature for 4-5 hours.
Put in the pan and bake at 250°C

What size pan do you use? What kind of pan? Steel or aluminum? How many pizza's does the above recipe make?

[gschwim]

I tried this recipe a couple of weeks ago, mixing the dough in a KitchenAid Artisan.  The problem I had was that about a minute after switching to the high speed, I had physically lean over the top of the mixer and hold it down the entire rest of the time to prevent it from "walking" off the edge of the counter.

So my experience is, unless you want to stand there, leaning on your mixer for 20-30 minutes, you need either to bolt the mixer to the table or use a larger, heavy mixer (Hobart?).

Gene

[scott r]

So my experience is, unless you want to stand there, leaning on your mixer for 20-30 minutes, you need either to bolt the mixer to the table or use a larger, heavy mixer (Hobart?).

Gene

Spiral!

[sub]

I follow Massimo Bosco Pizzeria on facebook and marvel at some of his creations.  These are a few of them that I copied from Massimo Bosco's facebook page.  As it can be seen there aren't a lot of toppings on them, but the crumbs look amazing.

Wow amazing result Norma, well done ! look at this crumb full of big holes ! 

Is that what you did, cook part way and then add toppings?

Yes, cooked 9 minutes without the toppings

What size pan do you use? What kind of pan? Steel or aluminum? How many pizza's does the above recipe make?

8.6inch steel pan,  the rule is +/-  700g of dough for a 15.75 by 11.825 Inch rectangular pan, Blue Steel pan is a lot better than aluminum.

I tried this recipe a couple of weeks ago, mixing the dough in a KitchenAid Artisan.  The problem I had was that about a minute after switching to the high speed, I had physically lean over the top of the mixer and hold it down the entire rest of the time to prevent it from "walking" off the edge of the counter.

It's the same with my new Bosch Compact, look:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?&amp;v=g6nO8JJNNNs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?&amp;v=g6nO8JJNNNs</a>

!

dough done in 13 minutes

Today I've try Carbonara topping ( pancetta,mozzarella, Parmesan, egg and black pepper)

[Serpentelli]

Sub,

Are the doughs in reply 1 and reply 14 identical? The crumb structure seems more open in the latter...

Beautiful looking bottom shot there in reply 14. Just killing me it looks so good!

At what temp and for how long were the pies in reply 14 baked?

Nicely done!

John K

[garyd]

How many grams of dough did you use for your 8.6 inch pan? Did you bake it on the bottom rack or on the middle rack ? What about the second bake with toppings? How many grams of dough would you think for a 9 inch round pan?

[sub]

Are the doughs in reply 1 and reply 14 identical? The crumb structure seems more open in the latter...
At what temp and for how long were the pies in reply 14 baked?

No they are not, it's a bake few day after.
250°  in my microwave oven, I don't have a conventional one, so I have to cheat a little 
9min without topping, return the pie upside down  2min to color the bottom put the potatoes and again few minutes.

How many grams of dough did you use for your 8.6 inch pan? Did you bake it on the bottom rack or on the middle rack ? What about the second bake with toppings? How many grams of dough would you think for a 9 inch round pan?

350gr
For a conventional oven, without the topping  directly on the bottom of the oven  then put the toppings and then on the middle rack to finish the cooking.


Hydration +/- 90%   (80% PZ3 20% rye Flour)
dough 48 hours in the fridge and 4 hours TA

[sub]

Hydration 100%   (80% PZ3 20% whole wheat Flour)
dough 24 hours in the fridge and 4 hours TA

[garyd]

No they are not, it's a bake few day after.
250°  in my microwave oven, I don't have a conventional one, so I have to cheat a little 
9min without topping, return the pie upside down  2min to color the bottom put the potatoes and again few minutes.

350gr
For a conventional oven, without the topping  directly on the bottom of the oven  then put the toppings and then on the middle rack to finish the cooking.


Hydration +/- 90%   (80% PZ3 20% rye Flour)
dough 48 hours in the fridge and 4 hours TA

So you don't use any olive oil in your dough, just in the pan?

You use a microwave oven? Is it a microwave with a browning element or convection? Great looking pies BTW!