Question about flour

[mcgrane]

Im new to making pizza, so bare with me here. I have been using 'Strong flour' which as far as i know is flour with high gluten. When looking at the dominos recipe here.. i see that there is a mix of bread flour and high-gluten flour. From a quick google search, my results for bread flour is just that its a flour with high-gluten.. So its two high-gluten flour mixes? - Can someone enlighten me on the difference ?
Thanks

[Pete-zza]

mcgrane,

Different flours have different protein levels and form different amounts of gluten when mixed with water and agitated (mixed). You can see how the different flours are categorized by looking at page 4 of this King Arthur document on flour: http://web.archive.org/web/20060208023504/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/15ec5c94af1251cdac2d7a25848f0e27/miscdocs/Flour%20Guide.pdf.

Peter

[mcgrane]

Thanks for the speedy reply and for the reading, I see that Bread Flour is between 11.5 and 13 percent and high gluten is 13-14.
Is it common to mix these kinds of flours for a pizza base ? Or is it just for this recipe ? I know this question seems lazy, but me reading through loads of recipes wont really solve anything, better to learn from the experts 

[Pete-zza]

mcgrane,

Had I thought of it when I entered my last post, I would have mentioned that even within specific classifications of flours, the gluten contents can vary among the different brands, as noted in the wet gluten mass table at Reply 74 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18075.msg184661.html#msg184661.

Peter

[mcgrane]

Thanks again, should come in useful, altough im not sure if these brands are available in ireland 
But ill keep an eye open for them 

[Pete-zza]

Thanks for the speedy reply and for the reading, I see that Bread Flour is between 11.5 and 13 percent and high gluten is 13-14.
Is it common to mix these kinds of flours for a pizza base ? Or is it just for this recipe ? I know this question seems lazy, but me reading through loads of recipes wont really solve anything, better to learn from the experts 

mcgrane,

Yes, it is quite common to mix different flours with different protein contents to achieve a blend with a specific targeted protein content. For example, some people think that a high-gluten flour is not the best flour for the NY style, and that bread flour is a better choice. However, if the user does not have bread flour on hand, it is possible to combine all-purpose flour and high-gluten flours to achieve a blend with a protein content that is the same as bread flour. There is even a tool called the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator that can be used to achieve the desired blend with the desired protein content. That tool can be seen at http://tools.foodsim.com/. It can be used with just about any flours, even those available to you in Ireland. The tool is not limited to only certain brands. However, you will need to know the protein contents of the flours to be blended.

Peter

[mcgrane]

Only a member for a half hour, and already learned loads Thanks lad !

[Pete-zza]

Only a member for a half hour, and already learned loads Thanks lad !

mcgrane,

I don't know how protein content is reported in Ireland, but in most of Europe, protein content is reported on a 0% or "dry matter" basis. You can read more about this on page 5 of the King Arthur piece I referenced earlier, which specifies the protein content of flours on a "wet" basis ( the method used in the U.S.). So, the two sets of numbers are not the same. I recently sent emails to three flour millers in the UK, in which I asked them which protein basis they used for their flours. Unfortunately, only one of the millers, Allinson, responded. They said that when measuring the protein content of flour they do not adjust to a specific humidity or remove moisture ready for the test. I'm not sure that their answer was correct.

Peter

[mcgrane]

I see the formula there... its
Protein 14% m.b. = Protein % as is x (100 – 14) / (100 – Moisture Content)
Im not really sure how id find the moisture content of the flour though 
This may explain why i cant find any high-gluten flour then. This being on of the lists i checked:
http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/product/browse/default.aspx?N=4294953358+4294954942&Ne=4294954028
and this being the flour i had been using:
http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=250830769
It only has 11%
And the highest being:
http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=253238147
With 11.5%
What your saying is that these numbers may not be the same as the american ones.
Doesnt really matter that much anyways, the dough i was making was ok with the 11% i was just intrested in trying out other ones

[Pete-zza]

mcgrane,

As I noted in Reply 378 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11044.msg103295/topicseen.html#msg103295, European flours have traditionally tended to have higher moisture contents than the flours sold in the U.S. But, because of those higher moisture content levels, the flours can be subjected to a variety of problems, as also noted in Reply 378. That said, I have recently observed that many European flours, especially those that are exported to the U.S., now seem to have moisture contents similar to U.S. flours, which is around 14%.

I believe that you missed out on one of the higher protein flours that is in the Tesco search results you posted at http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/product/browse/default.aspx?N=4294953358+4294954942&Ne=4294954028. It is the Hovis Super Strong White Bread Flour at http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=255491712. The stated protein for that flour is 12.8%. Looking at the nutrition information for that flour, it is hard to say whether Hovis is using the dry matter basis or not but I suspect it might be the dry matter basis because the carbohydrate content is lower than what a U.S. flour of comparable protein content would have. See, for example, the U.S. General Mills flour at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/pillsburys-best-flour-bleached-bromated-enriched-malted-50-lb/133294000?mct=Flour&ct=pizza&typ=Category. As a pretty good rule of thumb, the higher the protein content of a flour, the lower the carbohydrate value, and vice versa. For an example, compare the carbohydrate content of an all-purpose flour at one end of the pizza flour spectrum, at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/hr-all-purpose-bleached-malted-enriched-225-lb/132666000?mct=Flour&ct=all-purpose&typ=Type, with the carbohydrate content of a high-gluten flour at the other end of the pizza flour spectrum, at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/all-trumps-enriched-high-gluten-unbleached-unbromated-flour/50143000?mct=Flour&ct=general-mills-all-trumps&typ=Brand.

In your case, if you are looking to go to a higher protein flour, I would go with the Hovis flour mentioned above. Hovis is one of the UK millers that I sent an email to but did not get a reply. It looks like UK companies are as disinterested in answering questions from interested parties as many U.S. companies. That begs the question of why have contact links on their web pages in the first place.

Peter

[mcgrane]

Didnt see that :S ill have a look on monday or tuesday... on a pizza break, making to much in the last week ha. After all this advice it'll be a great pizza ! Thanks