How to make stretchier dough

[Dave1]

Hi guys,

Just registered here and looking for a bit of advice when it comes to NY style pizza. I'm pretty happy with the taste of my dough but it doesn't seem to stretch too well. My hydration is about 61% and my oil content is 1.5%, I use Hovis Strong White Bread flour.

I hand knead my dough for about 15 minutes, let it rise for about 2 hours, knock it back, divide it into dough balls and then cold ferment for a further 24 hours.

Any tips for improving the stretchiness and overall strength of the dough?

[Glutenboy]

What is the consistency like when you're hand kneading?  If it's manageable and your hands stay clean, you could probably up the hydration.  A good dough should be a bit sticky and frustrating to handle before it rises.  In my very early attempts, I would underhydrate because I thought stickiness meant I needed more flour.  Always not enough rise and lots of tearing.  I discovered the error of my ways by accident and haven't looked back since.  Also, a good long counter rise before balling and refrigerating helps too.

[Dave1]

What is the consistency like when you're hand kneading?  If it's manageable and your hands stay clean, you could probably up the hydration.  A good dough should be a bit sticky and frustrating to handle before it rises.  In my very early attempts, I would underhydrate because I thought stickiness meant I needed more flour.  Always not enough rise and lots of tearing.  I discovered the error of my ways by accident and haven't looked back since.  Also, a good long counter rise before balling and refrigerating helps too.

Thanks for advice, I wish I could up the hydration but my oven is not hot enough and I just get soggy pizzas, 61% is about the max I can go up to. I do get quite a few tears in my dough and it's so frustrating.

I can manage the dough the way it is and I have made some tasty pizzas using this recipe, I just assumed I was doing something wrong because when I look at videos on you tube of people hand stretching NY dough it always looks so much more stretchy and stronger than mine. I suppose they can afford to have a higher hydration and cook at hotter temps though.

[Pete-zza]

Dave1,

Can you post the rest of your recipe, and also tell us how you manage the dough once you take it out of the refrigerator, including how you handle the dough and make a base or shell out of it?

Also, is this the flour you are using: http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=255491712 ? Or is it this one: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=253907836 ?

Peter

[Dave1]

Hi Peter,

Yeh that's the flour i'm using in the second link, the strong white in the red bag. Ok here is my full recipe:

100% Hovis strong white bread flour
61%   Warm water 40 C
1.6%  Salt
1.5%  Olive Oil
1.0%  Sugar
0.4%  Instant dry yeast

After I get it out the fridge I usually let it warm up for about an hour if I have time, then i press it down with my finger tips in to a large flat base about 10" and hand stretch to 14" with my knuckles around the edge where the crust is. I'm still new to the stretching so my technique needs practice, I usually end up with all the dough around the edge and none in the middle lol, so I end up with a large area on one side that is very thin and this usually rips so I have to pinch back together.

I've been trying to keep the yeast in the 0.17-0.5% range but would upping the yeast to say 1-1.5% result in a stronger dough? Also if you can recommend any videos or written tutorials on the best way to hand stretch that would be great!

[Pete-zza]

Dave1,

The nutrition information at http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=253907836 does not specify the moisture content of the Hovis Strong White Bread Flour so it is hard to convert the protein content of that flour to a wet basis to equate it with a U.S. protein value. However, if the protein content of the Hovis flour you are using is around 12%, you should be able to safely use 61% hydration, as you noted in your recipe.

The recipe you are using looks to be fine for a NY style dough. With respect to the amount of yeast (IDY) that you have been using, I think it is OK but since it appears that the temperatures in England are presently on the cool side this time of year (a range today of about 1-14 degrees C in London), it perhaps wouldn't hurt to increase the IDY by about 5-10%.

I also think that your general dough management is satisfactory. This leads me to suspect that your shaping and stretching skills may need more practice. As for videos, you might take a look at these:

Tony Gemignani - How to Make Pizza Dough Fundamentals

How To Hand Slap Pizza Crust

(ignore the perforated disk part if you are using a pizza stone)

Chef Borruso - Pizza on CN8

As kind of a crutch until you are able to gain the skills needed to shape, stretch and toss a dough base (if you would like to do that), you might try the method described by Tom Lehmann in his PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6410&hilit=#p41080. If you'd like to see how that approach is sometimes used in a professional setting, watch this Lehmann/Zeak video:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw_IQWlV52M" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw_IQWlV52M</a>

How to Make Pizza Dough pt.3

Keep in mind, however, that professionals who specialize in the NY style do not use sheeters or presses and the like (or dough dockers). I just wanted to give you several perspectives on the matter of forming bases.

Peter

[Dave1]

Ok cool, thanks for the info i'll check out those links. Yeh it has been very cold here lately and it's not that warm in my house either so that could be an issue as well as my technique.

My dough is nothing like the dough being stretched in that Tony Gemignani video, that dough looks awesome to work with, I wish I knew his recipe!

[Riprazor]

Ok cool, thanks for the info i'll check out those links. Yeh it has been very cold here lately and it's not that warm in my house either so that could be an issue as well as my technique.

My dough is nothing like the dough being stretched in that Tony Gemignani video, that dough looks awesome to work with, I wish I knew his recipe!

A couple of comments.  If you can get your hands on All Trumps Bromated flour, you will likely notice a difference.  The higher protein content in addition to the bromation make the dough very easy to stretch and work with.  I generally work around 63% hydration but I doubt you would notice much difference at 61%.  I live in MN and definitely notice a difference in the spring back effect I get when my house is colder.  The dough is easier to work with in the warmer months than the dead of winter.  Having said that, it just takes slightly more patience to get a well crafted ball worked out.  I find that a 48 hour cold ferment produces slightly better oven spring in the crust than 24 hours.

Barry

[Vesuvi0]

Try an autolyse for about 20 minutes.  This always gives me good results.

[james456]

Hi guys,

Just registered here and looking for a bit of advice when it comes to NY style pizza. I'm pretty happy with the taste of my dough but it doesn't seem to stretch too well. My hydration is about 61% and my oil content is 1.5%, I use Hovis Strong White Bread flour.

I hand knead my dough for about 15 minutes, let it rise for about 2 hours, knock it back, divide it into dough balls and then cold ferment for a further 24 hours.

Any tips for improving the stretchiness and overall strength of the dough?

Use Alison's Very Strong White Bread Flour, you'll find it in bigger sainsburys/tesco/asda stores.