Author Topic: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death  (Read 5380 times)

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Offline Morgan

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2013, 08:36:55 AM »
No cancer flours to me thanks! Its forbitten in Europe and Scandinavia, but hey there must be someone who is getting some profit with this stuff, i think there is some similarity to corn syrup, you guys mix that staff all over the place :-D


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2013, 10:14:38 AM »
He also makes it sound like only the big chain guys like Domino's and PH are using bromated flours.  I'm not sure that is true either.
Chau,

I have been studying the ingredients lists of the major U.S. pizza chains for years, and they do not use bromated flours. This includes Domino's, Papa John's and Pizza Hut (and, I believe, Little Caesars also). They are all national chains and chose not to have to have different practices in California than in the rest of the country. Because of their size and high visibility, they are also constantly under the microscope of users who have concerns over the use of bromates. However, this doesn't stop them from using a lot of other additives and conditioners, especially for doughs that are made and frozen at commissaries for delivery to their stores. Domino's and Pizza Hut use many chemicals in their doughs, far more than they used to when they were smaller. Papa John's uses very few unless they have changed things over the past few years (PJ no longer discloses its ingredients lists, much like Little Caesars). Small pizza operators and regional chains might or might not use bromates. For example, Buddy's Pizza, Papa Gino's, Mellow Mushroom and Hungry Howie's do. Jet's and Home Run Inn do not. While some places might not use bromated flours, they will often use bleached flours.

I question Jeff's statement that about 99% of pizzerias use bromated flours. Pizza Hut, Domino's, Papa John's and Little Caesars alone account for about 27% of all stores in the U.S. Other chains represent about 15% of the pie, and independents represent close to 60%. The four big chains mentioned above account for about 30% of total U.S. pizza sales (about $22B annually). So, that 99% number looks suspect to me.

But, there is little doubt that bromated flours are very prevalent in the pizza business. For example, at the General Mills website, it lists 38 flours in its Pizza flour category that are suitable for pizza. Of those, 17 flours are bromated; 14 are both bleached and bromated; 8 are bleached but not bromated; and 12 are neither bleached nor bromated. I counted five bleached flours with ascorbic acid in lieu of bromates. As one might expect of a big miller like General Mills, with a product for everyone, there a few flours that are just plain flours with nothing added, including bleaching agents, bromates, ascorbic acid, malted barley, or vitamin enrichment.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2013, 10:27:46 AM »
I question Jeff's statement that about 99% of pizzerias use bromated flours. Pizza Hut, Domino's, Papa John's and Little Caesars alone account for about 27% of all stores in the U.S. Other chains represent about 15% of the pie, and independents represent close to 60%. The four big chains mentioned above account for about 30% of total U.S. pizza sales (about $22B annually). So, that 99% number looks suspect to me.

Like I commented above. The video is not an informational piece. It's pure propaganda for his employees.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2013, 11:27:05 AM »
Like I commented above. The video is not an informational piece. It's pure propaganda for his employees.

In the below episode he claims Caputo pizzeria is 10% protein, and "00" references mill size - both inaccurate. Did he or the person filming this take the time to verify accuracy of his statements? I don't even consider these as "informational". It just seems like he is talking off the cuff and posting this stuff online.



John
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:04:35 PM by Steve »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2013, 11:34:11 AM »
Like I commented above. The video is not an informational piece. It's pure propaganda for his employees.
Craig,

You may well be right but I am hard pressed to understand why Jeff, who has always struck me as being a meticulous person, would feed his employees information that is not correct. Since the video is entitled "Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe", maybe he was speaking of the New York style where the use of bromated flours is indeed widespread. I also wonder why he would be discussing rather technical matters such as dough chemistry, oxidants, anti-oxidants, etc., with his staff. Maybe some of his managers would benefit but I am not as sure about other employees.

Out of curiosity, I did a bit of research this morning to see how many countries actually ban bromates. What is a "country" is subject to different views and interpretations, some of which are political in nature, but it appears that there are close to 200-225 "countries" in the world (the U.S. State Department apparently recognizes 195 countries in the world). As best I can tell, about 160 countries outlaw the use of bromates. That is about 71%. If you look at the major developed countries of the world, that percent would be much higher.

Peter

Offline JBailey

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2013, 11:39:32 AM »
Did you guys watch the other videos Jeff is in? He's basically goofing around. Kinda funny that he evokes such a reaction for using the "b" word in vain.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2013, 11:40:18 AM »
.... It just seems like he is talking off the cuff and posting this stuff online.....

John

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Offline jeff v

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2013, 11:58:11 AM »
Did you guys watch the other videos Jeff is in? He's basically goofing around. Kinda funny that he evokes such a reaction for using the "b" word in vain.

That's why I said I get a tongue in cheek feeling from these vids-he's just talkin' trash. Either that or megalomania.  :-D
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2013, 11:59:11 AM »
In the below episode he claims Caputo pizzeria is 10% protein, and "00" references mill size - both inaccurate. Did he or the person filming this take the time to verify accuracy of his statements? I don't even consider these as "informational". It just seems like he is talking off the cuff and posting this stuff online.



Jeff is also a bit off on the King Arthur bread flour. That flour has a protein content of 12.7 +/- 0.2%.

On the matter of the 00 flours, Carol Field was one of the early authors who spoke about the grades of the Italian flours at the time, including 00 and 0 flours, as I noted in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,783.msg7226/topicseen.html#msg7226.

Here's the first video of the Varasano series:



I got a big kick about Jeff being given advice not to use the word "protein" in discussing the various flours he had on his table. There's no way that you can talk about different flours without using the word protein. You might be able to talk about gluten but that has no meaning out of context with protein.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:05:45 PM by Steve »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Jeff Varasano and the flour of death
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 12:12:09 AM »
That's why I said I get a tongue in cheek feeling from these vids-he's just talkin' trash. Either that or megalomania.  :-D
Really man....we need us a yawn smiley.  8)
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