Author Topic: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents  (Read 882 times)

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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2014, 10:56:27 PM »
Has anyone figured out how to get a dough ball out of the container yet  ?     >:D
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Online mitchjg

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Re: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2014, 11:03:04 PM »
Has anyone figured out how to get a dough ball out of the container yet  ?     >:D

Yep!!!

I have it down to 2 ways:

1 A shot of PAM in the container

or

2 The Jaws of Life!

« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:04:46 PM by mitchjg »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2014, 11:11:42 PM »
Yep!!!

I have it down to 2 ways:

1 A shot of PAM in the container

or

2 The Jaws of Life!
And that folks...was the way that it was.

Mitch is, as always.....our hero!   ;D
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:13:36 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Online mitchjg

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Re: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2014, 11:17:00 PM »
That's me!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2014, 11:48:23 AM »
Mitch,

As Tom Lehman discussed earlier in this thread, the release of dough balls from their containers or boxes depends to a large degree on the hydration of the dough balls and their condition at the time of desired release. To cite an example, when Norma and I were working on De Lorenzo clone doughs, we observed that both Gary and Sam, the father and son team at De Lorenzo's, used cornmeal or something quite similar in their dough boxes (we heard both stories). There was no evidence that any oil was applied to the dough balls prior to placement in the dough boxes. I estimate that I made close to thirty test dough balls as part of the De Lorenzo clone exercise and, in so doing, I simulated what De Lorenzo was doing by putting just cornmeal on the bottom of my storage containers (glass containers). When time came to form skins out of the dough balls, I found that I could just lift the dough balls out of their containers, or simply turn the containers upside down, and the dough balls would release instantly. I then just brushed the cornmeal off of the dough balls. It is important to point out that the hydration of the dough balls was below 60% although in a few cases the hydration was around 59%. The first two photos below show the De Lorenzo dough balls in dough boxes with what appears to be cornmeal or something similar. If you click on the photos, you should see the cornmeal or semolina in the dough boxes more clearly.

Norma and I also made Mellow Mushroom (MM) clone doughs where cornmeal was used to coat the dough balls. At MM. the dough balls are made in a central commissary and then frozen and put in plastic bags of some sort prior to shipment to their stores across the country. Norma and I assumed that the dough balls were coated with oil before applying the cornmeal to the dough balls since it looked like a lot of cornmeal was used. At the store level, the frozen dough balls would be defrosted and placed in dough boxes. But, as shown in the flickr photos at https://www.flickr.com/photos/debstb/4570308646/in/photolist-7XS2FL-7XS2wW-7XS2CG-7XNLDt-7XS2H9-7XS3sW-7XNL9g-7XS34b-7XS2AS-7XNLWZ-7XS3hS-7XNLc8-7XNLvB-7XNLrx-7XS2T1-7XS3vo-7XS2YY-7XNLyH-7XNLtK-7XNKQn-a26s7B-9tkc81-ds3Jkw-9sANXb-7D3bhB-6PLENw-fHbQny-7XY1vN-6zKq1p-85u65J-7vXzn8-f7uLxD-e4snrt-6EX1ak-bEnvrS-aiJYPQ-e2yNL3-a8Ey1v-4hLDAc-84CyhT-cnsais-65NLBu-7tYULa-7WVxMQ-7FDvkE-6quubM-dBkKNF-6GTV5u-cVgPvf-oxpppV/, there was cornmeal at the bottom of the dough boxes. Cornmeal was an important component of the MM crusts (cornmeal was used on the bench and some pizza makers would sprinkle some on the skins) so no effort was made to remove the cornmeal from the dough balls. But the release agent in the boxes was cornmeal. Again, it is important to note that the hydration of the MM dough balls was in the low to mid-50s percent. What I took away from the above exercises is that if the hydration of the dough is not too high, cornmeal or something similar works very well as a release agent.

Peter


Online mitchjg

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Re: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2014, 12:07:03 PM »
Thank you, Peter.  I think all of that makes sense.  I tend to use doughs that are hydrated in the low 60's, probably 62 or 63% most of the time.  I occasionally go up from there, with mixed results (in general). 

I also think that my dough is "very" fermented.  Not necessarily over-fermented.  I think the higher moisture, possibly combined with the "very fermented" nature makes the dough stickier than the examples you described.

In any event, I would not use cornmeal since I tend to bake at 700 - 800 or higher - but that certainly is not a generalization for all that are here on the forum.

I may be trying a few doughs that are less, rather than more - in terms of fermentation.  But, for now, I think a shot of PAM i a container or a lightly oiled dough ball in a bread bag (per Tom Lehman) will probably do it for me.

One item I was pondering was "how will I know my dough ball is ready?" when I use the bread bag.  I am now trained/experienced in seeing the stages of the dough by examining the bottom of a container.  The bubble formation is different, so I will need to learn through some experience there (maybe run a few side by side).  One other item I noted is that, with the bread bag approach, there is no "top or bottom."  With the container, you get the nice, rather dry skin on one side and the bubbly, wetter side that was on the bottom of the container.  With the bread bag, it is the same all around.

At least I do not have to think about (which I tend not to keep track of anyway) "which side is up."  I have enough trouble in my life knowing that anyway.   :P
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 12:09:53 PM by mitchjg »

Offline norma427

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Re: Getting Dough Ball Out Of Container - Comparison of Release Agents
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2014, 09:53:56 PM »
Mitch,

I use food safe plastic bags for my market doughs and do the the pony tail twist since Tom explained that to me.  Even my higher hyrated Detroit style doughs slide right out of the food safe plastic bags.  But then they are slid out of the plastic bags when they are cold right out of the fridge.  Both kinds of dough balls are oiled.

Norma
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