Author Topic: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria  (Read 9231 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2013, 03:44:18 PM »
craig, you seemed to wonder about proofing for 20+h at room temp, i made a one day stage
at "la figlia del presidente" in naples and they told me they always keep the dough at room temp and
just use a different amount of yeast and salt. i find i difficult to plan to control bulk proofing temperatur in a commercial
200+ pie setting...

i also heard da micheles process contains old dough, the amount of leoparding on
their pies seem to kind of proof that, what do you think craig !??!??

did you try the caputo criscito product ??

I don’t wonder about proofing at room temp or for long periods. I’m a hard-core believer. I can’t remember the last time I did less than 24 hours or used a refrigerator, and never for Neapolitan. Generally, I proof 48 hours at room temp (60-65F).

My question was about the amount of yeast you used for 24 hours. 0.4% fresh yeast is about half of what I would expect to see for 24 hours at room temp. That’s why I was wondering if your proofing temp is on the warm side.

It wouldn’t surprise me if da Michele used old dough, but I don’t see how doing so would meaningfully contribute to leoparding. I’ve experimented with old dough and don’t really have an opinion on it one way or the other.

I have not tried the Caputo (or 5Stagioni) Criscito. I have a pretty strong feeling against using it. That being said, someone did offer to send me some, and I will experiment with it, but likely in non-typical ways. I only use natural cultures for my Neapolitan pizza. There has been exactly two pies made with baker’s yeast in my WFO, and I didn’t make either of them.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline schneich

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2013, 01:14:31 AM »
do you think its feasible to use a starter culture in a commercial setting ??




Offline TXCraig1

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2013, 09:59:06 AM »
do you think its feasible to use a starter culture in a commercial setting ??

If by feasible you mean "can it be done?" of course the answer is yes. If you're asking, will it be easy, then the answer is solidly no.

Using a natural starter culture (and by natural, i'm not implying that baker's yeast is somehow unnatural) reintroduces uncertainties, complexity, and the need for people with the experience dealing with the additional variables. We created baker's yeast precisely to eliminate the uncertainties of natural starters and make things consistent and easier to control. I know operations that are successful with a natural culture, and they all pretty much have one thing in common: the person in charge of the dough doesn't get much time off and when s/he does, you never know what is going to happen. that's a lot of stress and headaches. I also know of places that used natural cultures successfully and changed to baker's yeast for this very reason. I think if you are going to do it, you should have a second person standing beside you learning every single time you make the dough. You are going to have to pay that person enough that s/he won't even consider leaving, and, in this age of no loyalty, that may not be enough.

The cost of simplicity is flavor. I'm not going to go so far as to say one is better than the other. I have my opinion, and I'm sure it's no secret here, but I get plenty of days off without having to worry about dough. My suggestion would be to make a bunch of pies both ways and really think hard about if the difference in the product justifies the increased cost ($, stress, inconsistency, etc.). You can't simply do it for nostalgia.
Pizza is not bread.

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2013, 10:50:57 AM »
Craig, let's say you decided to open a pizza place of your own. Would you use a natural leaven, baker's yeast, or some combination of the two? 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2013, 11:44:52 AM »
Craig, let's say you decided to open a pizza place of your own. Would you use a natural leaven, baker's yeast, or some combination of the two?

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't use a combination. Doing so really bothers me for some reason.

I would have to experiment a lot more with all three forms of baker's yeast before I could say for sure.
Pizza is not bread.

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2013, 12:25:35 PM »
I've been using a combination of natural leaven and yeast (a fairly small amount) in my bread baking lately and I've been pretty pleased with the results.  There is still a good tang in the bread but the rise is a bit more reliable (for me anyway).

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2013, 01:11:22 PM »
I can only speak on the use of fresh yeast in this case (used both direct incorporation or employed in a pre-ferment). Either can give you the proper rise, flavor and texture in both a home or a commercial environment. The contributing factors are mainly time and workflow (temp, gluten development, fermentation etc all being included in this). If both are sound, a very consistent result can be achieved time after time. I can only assume that the same can also be achieved with a natural culture. It just takes time, persistence and passion.

Anthony
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Offline Seb

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2013, 03:43:35 PM »
vimeo.com/11182541


What a great video, thank you for this.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2013, 04:16:11 PM »
I don't know why you couldn't make a heavy steel cap for the gas burner and burn wood right on top of it if you were so inclined.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline schneich

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2013, 03:50:27 AM »
on all the paulie g videos i saw, the gas burner was never working ?!?


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2013, 08:34:33 AM »
on all the paulie g videos i saw, the gas burner was never working ?!?

That's exactly why I posted it. So you could see that you don't have to run it as a gas oven. Paulie always runs it as a wood fired oven. He got the gas oven only so that he always has that option should he ever need it - like if he couldn't get good dry wood for some reason...
Pizza is not bread.

Offline DenaliPete

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 07:07:48 AM »
Craig, the steel cap idea is pretty ingenious.  That would be very easy to place or remove.

Offline schneich

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2013, 09:24:41 AM »
a smallish update...

we are still searching for a location, at the moment its impossible to get a decent one in downtown cologne, since about two years artisan burger places are sprouting out everywhere, it seems that every new opening restaurant is a burger place. the cool thing is in germany NOBODY sees pizza napoletana coming, there is only one place in bavaria but it was opened  20 years ago

check our guerilla marketing facebook page :-)

https://www.facebook.com/485Grad

Offline schneich

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2013, 10:14:54 AM »
things are getting alon, we finally found a location YEAHH....  we ar ein the middle of the university quarter, downtown cologne...
the place has around 800 ft2 of space, so planning has started, here are some sketches which describe where we want to go...

cheers from cologne :-)


Offline Roman

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2013, 05:40:05 AM »
This is a very interesting thread. You're taking us through the many  considerations, the alternatives and solutions to your creative end. Thanks for sharing!

Offline Sirius

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2013, 01:07:51 PM »
Hi,
Hehe fast niemand sieht den Trend zur neapolitanischen Pizza ;D

Deine Skizzen sehen echt viel versprechend aus.
Will demnächst auch meinen Stefano Ferrara Ofen bestellen
Welche Größe hast du genommen 120-130-140?Gas Y/N?

Sorry folks for not writting in english, I am a bit in a hurry....

Offline JConk007

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2013, 09:01:28 AM »
Love the prep tables those drawers will hold dough?Have you decided on an Oven ? Gas or Wood? Where is it coming from ?
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2013, 05:17:48 PM »
Regarding SD in a commercial setting, if I were to open a pizzeria using SD I would invest in a starter processor:

http://www.tmbbaking.com/starter.html

John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2013, 05:35:13 PM »
Regarding SD in a commercial setting, if I were to open a pizzeria using SD I would invest in a starter processor:

http://www.tmbbaking.com/starter.html

John


The small one makes 140 lbs of starter every 8 hours. Just how big of a pizzeria are you planning?  ???
Pizza is not bread.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: newbie wants to open a neapolitan pizzeria
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2013, 07:36:42 AM »
The small one makes 140 lbs of starter every 8 hours. Just how big of a pizzeria are you planning?  ???

I believe that it is up to 140lbs and a smaller batch is possible. I could be wrong though. But if I were using a 12 hour dough and making dough twice a day it would probably be some heavy amounts of starter.

John