Are Grams of protein and gluten % always the same?

[mkevenson]

Seems to me I read that certain flours will produce different % of gluten even tho the grams of protein are the same ratio.

For instance, I have an Unbleached, Organic flour that states 4 grams of protein /serving. The serving size is 1/4 cup.
My math says 32grams / 1/4 cup flour so approx 12.4 % protein. Does this also mean 12% gluten and is this # the same for all flours that list 4g protein / 1/4 cup flour?
Thanks.

Mark

[Pete-zza]

Mark,

Different flours, even though in the same category, and even among different brands, can yield different amounts of gluten. I think you can see this in the Master Gluten Mass list at Reply 65 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18075.msg182328.html#msg182328. All of the gluten mass tests were conducted using the same dough ball weight.

Peter

[mkevenson]

Peter, I was reading that post before I posted mine. I guess What I am not seeing is the grams of protein as listed on the individual flour bags. Are they all the same % of protein on the ingredients list. And is 12.5% protein = 12.5% gluten in all flours?

Mark

[Pete-zza]

Mark,

I don't pay much attention to the protein and serving size numbers, such as 4 grams of protein for 1/4 cup (or 30 grams), on the flour bags because of rounding factors that make it impossible to know the exact protein percent. Instead, I look for more specific protein numbers from the miller, which is usually specified as x grams protein per 100 grams of flour. So, even though several flour bags can all say 4 grams of protein for 1/4 cup,  the actual protein contents can vary because of the rounding factors. I often see flours from different millers with identical Nutrition Facts, yet I know the flours are not identical.

I don't know what percent of the total protein content of a given flour ends up as gluten when the flour is mixed with water and agitated (e.g., mixed or kneaded). Gluten is made up of two protein components of flour--glutenin and gliadin. However, there are other protein components in flour that have little or nothing to do with gluten. I would imagine that gluten represents the bulk of the protein content of a flour, I just don't know the percent. And it is possible, and maybe even quite likely, that the percents will vary from one brand of flour to another, even within the same category (e.g., bread flour, all-purpose flour, etc.).

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Mark,

After I posted, I remembered an article that discusses the portion of a flour's protein that is unrelated to gluten. According to http://www.bakingbusiness.com/News/News%20Home/Trends/2009/3/WHEAT%20FLOUR%20FUNDAMENTALS.aspx?racategory=Flour%20and%20Grains, for a flour with a protein content of 11%, 2% of that is proteins other than glutenin and gliadin.

Peter

[mkevenson]

Thank you for that explanation. This leads to another gluten question. Some folks use "high gluten flour" IE KASL, Trumps etc. I am assuming from what you wrote that the average consumer would have a difficult time determining gluten content from the label. In fact I have never seen it listed.
So why do I care?
I have also read that increased gluten will add to the dough balls extensibility, or ability to open without tearing. I already know, or think that I do, that gluten development is one thing and gluten amount is another.
So all this relates to making a better handling dough.

The other day you posted a few youtube ref to opening dough, by Tony at al.
My goal is to get my dough to the point where i can work it as well.

Thanks again.

Mark

[TXCraig1]

Mark, adding to what Peter wrote, the glutenin and gliadin come in different ratios in different flours (which effects the visco-elastic characteristics), and the quality of protein is a function of the wheat, processing, etc. and not the same from flour to flour. All gluten is not equal.

KAAP and Caputo have similar protein at around 11.7% if I remember correctly, yet make a dough with each that is otherwise the same, and the handling characteristics are shockingly different despite the fact that they will feel similarly hydrated. The KAAP will be much more elastic and difficult to work with.  The other day, I made some dough with 100% 5Stagioni and an otherwise similar batch with 75% 5 stagioni and 25% KAAP, and while the dough felt similar initially, the dough with the KAAP was much more elastic and resistant to be being stretched.

[Pete-zza]

Thank you for that explanation. This leads to another gluten question. Some folks use "high gluten flour" IE KASL, Trumps etc. I am assuming from what you wrote that the average consumer would have a difficult time determining gluten content from the label. In fact I have never seen it listed.
So why do I care?

Mark,

I don't know what King Arthur puts in the way of Nutrition Facts on the small bags of KASL that it sells via mail-order, but you won't find that information on its large bags. Likewise for the All Trumps. You will have to go to the KA and General Mills professional flour websites to see the specs and compare the two flours if you'd like. But, in neither case will you be able to determine the gluten forming characteristics of the flours. Norma and I, but mostly Norma, used a home version of a gluten mass test. Professionals use expensive, sophisticated equipment and  tests to determine not only the amount of gluten in a sample but, to Craig's point, also the quality of the gluten. The vast majority of consumers have no interest in these matters. In fact, they can't get the All Trumps flour if they want it since it is not a retail flour. They would have to go to the places where professionals get that flour or find a customer who might be willing to sell them some of the flour.

Peter