Author Topic: Did I get the wrong flour?  (Read 1599 times)

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Offline Smokepit

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Did I get the wrong flour?
« on: March 07, 2013, 11:39:44 AM »
I been making my pizza using KABF with great results. I have been shooting for a New York style and myself and the family are very pleased with the results.  I work for a food service company and wanted to try our brand of high gluten flour. So last night while at our warehouse I picked up a 25 lb bag of it for $8.48. My first thought was sweet! I've been paying $4 for 5lbs of KABF. After I got home I looked it over closer and descovered that it is bleached and bromated and it's protien content is 13.8%. ( I know, I should have checked that before I bought it) What are you thoughts on making New York style pizza with this flour. And should I use the same recipe as the KABF.  This is what I've been using with good results so far.

Flour 100%
Water 64%
Yeast  .3%
Salt     1.5%
Sugar  1%
Oil       1%

Over night in the fridge, gas oven preheated to 550° for at least an hour, on a stone. Bake times are between 7 and 8 min depending in toppings I use.


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 11:45:43 AM »
Do you know if the flour has malt in it?

John

Offline Smokepit

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Re: Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 11:50:11 AM »
John, I don't see any indication that it is malted.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2013, 11:56:39 AM »
So the flour you have is technically a better one for NY style pizza than KABF. It is a professional flour. The only difference I would use in your recipe would be to up the sugar to 2% or 3% to compensate for the malt present in KABF. You might need to adjust your hydration up slightly, but maybe not. Your flour is probably more spring wheat than winter wheat, so you might need to experiment to see if you get the same performance in baking.

Do you know what manufacturer makes the flour for your company? If so, maybe we can find a spec sheet.

John

EDIT: Changed "lack of malt" to "malt present".
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 12:30:02 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline scott123

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 12:22:40 PM »
There's malt in it.  They don't make unmalted bromated flour.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 12:25:14 PM »
John,

Perhaps you misspoke but the KABF is a malted flour. I, too, will be curious as to the flour that Smokepit has purchased.

Peter

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 12:27:40 PM »

Perhaps you misspoke but the KABF is a malted flour. I, too, will be curious as to the flour that Smokepit has purchased.


Peter - Yes, corrected.

John
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 12:29:21 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline Smokepit

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 12:33:49 PM »
Ok the flour is manufactured by Bay State Milling Company. It is packaged for us under our company name so I would only be guessing as to what flour it is on Bay States website. And as far as that goes they offer custom blends so it may not even be a '"house" blend of theirs.  That being said i think it is the flour they call Bouncer. I was not able to find any info on there site as to the specs of their flours but here is a link to the spec sheet provided by my company. Hope this helps.

http://www.liparifoods.com/product/spec_sheets/622700.pdf




Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 12:42:30 PM »
Ok the flour is manufactured by Bay State Milling Company. It is packaged for us under our company name so I would only be guessing as to what flour it is on Bay States website. And as far as that goes they offer custom blends so it may not even be a '"house" blend of theirs.  That being said i think it is the flour they call Bouncer. I was not able to find any info on there site as to the specs of their flours but here is a link to the spec sheet provided by my company. Hope this helps.

http://www.liparifoods.com/product/spec_sheets/622700.pdf



Ah, Bay State Milling. They are in my neck of the woods. So the ingredient "enzyme" is what would be malt on the KABF ingredient label. It is all spring wheat, so you might need some attention to detail when mixing/fermenting as it will perform differently from KABF which is mostly winter wheat.

John

Offline Smokepit

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Re: Re: Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 12:47:40 PM »
Ah, Bay State Milling. They are in my neck of the woods. So the ingredient "enzyme" is what would be malt on the KABF ingredient label. It is all spring wheat, so you might need some attention to detail when mixing/fermenting as it will perform differently from KABF which is mostly winter wheat.

John

John, what sport of attention are you talking, and what can I expect to be different? Getting ready to make some dough for tomorrows nights dinner. Thanks for all the help.

Edit: Will my current formulation be a good starting point our would you recommend different?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 12:58:25 PM by Smokepit »


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Re: Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 01:21:56 PM »
John, what sport of attention are you talking, and what can I expect to be different? Getting ready to make some dough for tomorrows nights dinner. Thanks for all the help.

Edit: Will my current formulation be a good starting point our would you recommend different?

I will defer to Scott123 and Peter on the recipe question, but from my standpoint it is a fine place to start.

In regards to performance and handling, you will notice that you need more mixing with the Bouncer to get the same consistency of KABF. Let us know what you find in differences using the same recipe and workflow.

John
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:26:35 PM by dellavecchia »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 01:32:48 PM »
Ah, Bay State Milling. They are in my neck of the woods. So the ingredient "enzyme" is what would be malt on the KABF ingredient label. It is all spring wheat, so you might need some attention to detail when mixing/fermenting as it will perform differently from KABF which is mostly winter wheat.

John,

According to the King Arthur website, the KABF is milled from hard red spring wheat. That is also confirmed by the KA specs given for that flour--called by its professional flour name of Special--at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/specifications-conventional-bakery-flour.html. You will also note at the bottom of the page that the malting for that flour is malted barley flour. You might have been thinking of the Better for Bread flour, aka Harvest King flour, that apparently comprises winter wheat, according to Tom Lehmann at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4303&hilit=#p23323.

Peter

Offline Smokepit

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Re: Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 01:39:57 PM »
Ok guys, thanks for the help. I started off using my current formulation for 2, 14" pies at 64%, and did another batch at 65% to see if there was any difference. I will post pics of the process after I make then tomarrow night.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 01:44:38 PM »
John,

According to the King Arthur website, the KABF is milled from hard red spring wheat. That is also confirmed by the KA specs given for that flour--called by its professional flour name of Special--at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/specifications-conventional-bakery-flour.html. You will also note at the bottom of the page that the malting for that flour is malted barley flour. You might have been thinking of the Better for Bread flour, aka Harvest King flour, that apparently comprises winter wheat, according to Tom Lehmann at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4303&hilit=#p23323.

Peter


That is my mistake. For some reason I thought KABF was winter wheat, and Organic KABF was winter and spring wheat. I could have sworn that was what it was, but I guess I am completely wrong on that front.

John
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:46:36 PM by dellavecchia »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 01:50:09 PM »
Ok guys, thanks for the help. I started off using my current formulation for 2, 14" pies at 64%, and did another batch at 65% to see if there was any difference. I will post pics of the process after I make then tomarrow night.
Smokepit,

There is no reason why the Bouncer flour shouldn't work with the dough formulation you posted. Some people, like scott123, prefer using a lower protein flour for the NY style but there are many professionals who specialize in NY style pizzas who use the higher protein flours, typically in the range of 13.5-14.2%. And those flours are invariably bromated and, usually, bleached.

Peter

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 01:58:21 PM »
For some reason I thought KABF was winter wheat, and Organic KABF was winter and spring wheat.

I realized what I am describing above is KAAP, not KABF. Somehow I mixed up the wheat type with those two flours.

John

Offline tombiasi

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 02:07:11 PM »
Smokepit,
I would think the people at your place would know the specs on what they are buying.

Offline Smokepit

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2013, 02:42:02 PM »
Smokepit,
I would think the people at your place would know the specs on what they are buying.

I'm sure if I would have called and asked they would have been able to tell me. The thing is I'm a truck driver for the company and live 165 miles from the warehouse. I go there every night to pick up product to be delivered to the stores the next day but the only people there are the dock workers and the transpertation dept. There is nobody in the sales dept at midnight.  ;) I new I could get a more specific responce here, as to how it would effect my pizza compared to the KABF I was using.  Because in truth they could have told me all the specs they wanted and it would not really have ment anything to me, I'm still a noob trying to figure it all out.

Offline tombiasi

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2013, 02:44:57 PM »
I'm sure if I would have called and asked they would have been able to tell me. The thing is I'm a truck driver for the company and live 165 miles from the warehouse. I go there every night to pick up product to be delivered to the stores the next day but the only people there are the dock workers and the transpertation dept. There is nobody in the sales dept at midnight.  ;) I new I could get a more specific responce here, as to how it would effect my pizza compared to the KABF I was using.  Because in truth they could have told me all the specs they wanted and it would not really have ment anything to me, I'm still a noob trying to figure it all out.
OK, The specs would help you if you posted them here, but as you said you can't get them.
Good luck.

Offline Smokepit

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Re: Did I get the wrong flour?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2013, 03:11:33 PM »
Ok the flour is manufactured by Bay State Milling Company. It is packaged for us under our company name so I would only be guessing as to what flour it is on Bay States website. And as far as that goes they offer custom blends so it may not even be a '"house" blend of theirs.  That being said i think it is the flour they call Bouncer. I was not able to find any info on there site as to the specs of their flours but here is a link to the spec sheet provided by my company. Hope this helps.

http://www.liparifoods.com/product/spec_sheets/622700.pdf




OK, The specs would help you if you posted them here, but as you said you can't get them.
Good luck.



Follow the link from my previous reply it's a pdf of the spec sheet.


 

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