Author Topic: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?  (Read 1326 times)

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Offline Chaze215

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Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« on: March 09, 2013, 10:23:06 PM »
In my new Food and Wine magazine, there is the following recipe from Thomas McNaughton:

1 3/4# 00 flour
.75 g ADY
2 cups warm water
27g salt
This is to be used with a  3 day ferment.

What do you guys think of  this recipe for use in a home oven? I was under the impression the the use of 00 flour was predominantly used for a WFO and the Neapolitan pies could not be achieved in a home oven only getting to 550. Thanks in advance!
Chaz


Mal

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 10:52:47 PM »
00 is just part of the classification scheme for flour in Italy. Its quality and performance will vary from one miller/producer to the next. The "00" designation alone does not dictate WFO-only use.

That said, there are specific flours blended and milled for making traditional Neapolitan pizza eg "Caputo 00 pizzeria". WFO owners will testify to exceptional results in a WFO using these flours (over and above more generic brands). In such cases, the consideration is mainly one of cost. Do you really want to spend the extra $$ on a flour intended for use in a WFO-based pizzeria?

Offline Chaze215

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 01:02:52 PM »
One can use whatever kind of flour they want, but it doesnt mean you will get the best results. That said, the article makes it sounds like the best way to achieve this is to use 00 flour. I have never used 00 flour, so im throwing it out there for those with more experience can add their 2 cents. Thanks for the feedback!
Chaz

Offline scott123

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 01:30:32 PM »
I was under the impression the the use of 00 flour was predominantly used for a WFO and the Neapolitan pies could not be achieved in a home oven only getting to 550.

Chaz, within this forum, it is generally believed that authentic Neapolitan pizza is predominantly a factor of bake time. Outside of this forum, it's a free-for-all, with experts like Reinhart and Kenji advocating a generally bake time agnostic approach. I take it a step further than most members here and state that not only is 00 flour Neapolitan dough baked for 3 min. inauthentic, it is tough and stale textured as well.

According to my calculations, around one in 300 home ovens can achieve Neapolitan bake times. It's not impossible that your oven can do sub 2 min. bakes, just highly unlikely. Before you go shopping for 00 flour, see what kind of minimum bake times you can achieve with regular flour.

Offline Chaze215

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 02:50:17 PM »
Scott, I don't plan on looking for 00 flour anytime soon. I'm more than happy with my NY style right now  ;D While we're on the topic of different styles, what's the difference between flatbread pizza and a thin crust pizza? I have seen a lot of chatter lately about flatbread, but it seems to me they're one of the same.....except for the shape.  What do you guys think?
Chaz

Online shuboyje

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2013, 04:07:06 PM »
I'm sure it varies regionally, but in my experience flat bread is a term that tends to be used by chef's who want to  put ridiculous ingredients on subpar pizza.  By calling it flat bread it's not subpar pizza, it's flatbread.
-Jeff

Offline Chaze215

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2013, 04:49:09 PM »
I'm sure it varies regionally, but in my experience flat bread is a term that tends to be used by chef's who want to  put ridiculous ingredients on subpar pizza.  By calling it flat bread it's not subpar pizza, it's flatbread.

I tend to agree with your view of this. I was looking at several menus that are charging $12.50 for 12" PLAIN flatbread with $1.50 for additional cheeses/vegies and $2.00 for meat. Ridiculous.
Chaz

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2013, 07:18:43 PM »
As I understand it, flatbread refers to unleavened dough, which most pizza most certainly is not.  I think that many people selling flatbread pizzas are just using it as a trendy, fancy name haha.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 07:22:14 PM by CDNpielover »

Mal

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 10:26:48 PM »
I've used both Caputo flour and another 00 "bio organic" brand at considerably longer-than-neapolitan bake times.   It won't make your pizza MORE "authentic" at >2 minute bake times but in my experience it won't make it "tough and stale".  The results were perfectly reasonable considering the longer bake-time and compared well against other AP and bread flours (non-00).  I just didn't consider it at special or worth the extra expense.  00 Flour is definitely NOT the exclusive realm of sub 2 minute bakes but by itself it's not a magic ingredient either.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 11:26:23 PM by Mal »

Mal

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2013, 10:36:40 PM »
The important thing here is: Not all 00 flours are the same.  You simply can't generalise.  The difference between the Caputo pizzeria and the "organic" 00 flour I used was considerable. Both were good in their own way. I would happily use either of them again at the right price point but I wouldn't pay a premium for them (as I did for the Caputo).


Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 12:45:46 PM »
One thing I've learned (here) is that with the Caputo flour being unmalted, it will not brown at lower temps.

Although I have not tried in in my home oven, I have had the experience of poor browning (in my WFO) using my "standard" Caputo 62+/-% NP dough when I was dealing with a batch of very wet wood and the floor only got up to 600 degrees.

And because of the 4+min bake time needed the dough was very hard.

John K
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 01:30:53 PM »
I've used both Caputo flour and another 00 "bio organic" brand at considerably longer-than-neapolitan bake times.   It won't make your pizza MORE "authentic" at >2 minute bake times but in my experience it won't make it "tough and stale".  The results were perfectly reasonable considering the longer bake-time and compared well against other AP and bread flours (non-00).  I just didn't consider it at special or worth the extra expense.  00 Flour is definitely NOT the exclusive realm of sub 2 minute bakes but by itself it's not a magic ingredient either.


I agree with you and here's the proof. I also didn't have any issues with insufficient browning in my wfo.  Yes the bottoms are not as dark compared to a malted flour dough but it was dark enough. 

These were right around the 4min mark IIRC.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjC61TODOU0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VyzN0Aiabs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0foJ8OSHOo&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/youtube]

Chau



« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 09:48:58 AM by Steve »

Offline Chaze215

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Re: Neapolitan style pies in your home oven?
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 08:20:28 PM »
I agree with you and here's the proof. I also didn't have any issues with insufficient browning in my wfo.  Yes the bottoms are not as dark compared to a malted flour dough but it was dark enough. 

These were right around the 4min mark IIRC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjC61TODOU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VyzN0Aiabs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0foJ8OSHOo&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Chau


Thanks for the insight guys! I hear what you're saying but I guess some Neo purists believe those pies should be baked in 90 seconds and under. Chau,  thanks for the links. You pies look great! I had to check out your NY style videos as well and they look great as too! AND... you have a sweet setup!
Chaz