2 Days?

[ephman]

hi,

is it possible to allow a dough to rise for two days out on the counter?  is there an advantage?  would be gross?  if you can do that is there a recipe for it?

thanks,
ephman

[fattony]

yes it can be done, and no it would not be gorss. I don't see a need for it though. If you are going to do a long fermentation your best bet is to do it in the fridge and let the dough sit for 3 days min. and use COLD water for this procedure. other wise 12-18 hours is fine for a room temp rise. If you do want to use a 2 day room temp. rise procedure make sure to reduce your yeast and again use cold water. If you want a recipe for this you can use this for a starting point and adjust the yeast as you see fit.

1kg water (COLD TAP WATER)
1.9kg flour
5gr. yeast
45gr salt


You could also achieve great flavor by using a polish instead

[scott r]

Fattony, those are all excellent and valid points.  I can see from your recipe that you are into Neapolitan style pizza.

I, however, do find a subtle difference in texture and flavor that I achieve using a long slow room temp rise.  I do prefer this to the fridge rise doughs.  I have done extensive testing.

I use a starter culture, so maybe that is why we have come to different conclusions.

[Pete-zza]

Everything that fattony mentions suggests that he knows what he is talking about, and he has put his finger on all the right points. However, I tend to agree with scott on the room temperature fermentation, especially with the use of a preferment (starter). The best flavored Neapolitan crusts I have made came from using only a long room temperature fermentation and a natural preferment. I will say, however, that the cold fermentation of a Neapolitan dough does allow for better dough management, and I can see how a pizza operator (or a busy home pizza maker) might go for that approach for that reason. I also agree with fattony that, absent use of a preferment, a poolish does offer up the opportunity for better crust flavor. I also see room for increasing the amount of salt a bit as another way to control (slow down) the fermentation process.

Peter

[fattony]

ephman, scott r is correct, this is a Neapolitan recipe. I did not ask if you are using a wood burning forno or not or what style of crust you are looking for. I just assumed since we were on the Neapolitan site that it was so. If you are not using a HIGH temp forno then I would highly suggest adding 50gr. of extra virgin olive oil.

I do agree with pete-zza that a long fermentation is best but I can't afford to lose out on a daily basis in the restaurant. I have the best luck and most consistent product with a fridge fermentation. I use a mother yeast in my dough and I use it between the 4-6 day stage.

[Pete-zza]

fattony,

Can you tell us some more about your "mother yeast"? That is, is it a natural culture or one with commercial yeast, and what is its consistency and how do you use it? Thanks.

Peter

[ephman]

hi,

i just use a regular oven.  says 550 on the meter but could be more could be less.  i usually just crank it up and wait an hour.  thanks for the info.

ephman

[fattony]

 pete-zza.

Sorry for not responding sooner, I was out of the country for a bit.
 I use a natural yeast that's about 20 years old. It is very consistent if you know how to use it. I use one kg for 10L of water. You have to know how the refresh the yeast and watch its ph levels (therefore knowing when to wash the yeast and knowing when to let it grow.) It is not something I'd recommend to a home pizza maker. I can go deeper into if you wish when I have some more time.

[Pete-zza]

fattony,

I'd love to hear more about how you use your natural preferment, since you must be one of the few operators in the U.S. to do that.  But there is no hurry.

I also see that you use the preferment as a percent of water, rather than as a percent of flour, which is more common in the U.S. Your approach is the one that pizzanapoletana uses also.

Peter