Author Topic: How to make dough with the ingredients I can get in the Philippines (Read 960 times)

sammybotz · « **on:** March 13, 2013, 03:18:30 PM »

Okay, where do I start. My first post. Hello to everyone at PizzaMaking.com

My Introduction is here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23920.0.html

I want to make pizza dough here in the Philippines using a home oven. Eventually I will either build a wood burning oven or buy a conventional double-deck gas pizza oven, but for now I would just appreciate some advice on using a regular home oven which goes to about 500 degrees and I can fit one 16" pizza inside. Not sure if I should look for a pizza stone or not here.

Unfortunately I'm pretty clueless as I have never done it before. I watched video's but then stumbled onto this site and it looks like I'll get the best long-term advice for my future pizzeria here in the Philippines.

Maybe if I list the ingredients that are available to me here one of the professional dough makers on this website can help me a bit.

The only flour I can find here is all-purpose four and cake flour from a small supermarket. The flour is just in plastic bags with nothing labeled on them. However I did find another all-purpose flour at another store which is double the price and it does have a name (white king all purpose flour 1KG bag).

The only yeast I can find is called Angel instant dry yeast (500 Grams).

I do not have a mixer yet, I guess I'll be kneading by hand for this testing period. Just want to make sure i can perfect the dough before I start buying equipment. I understand the procedures are different for a home oven versus a commercial one but that is all I have for now.

So I think that's about it. I would appreciate some tips and possible recipes for making like a batch of (4) 16" pizza's at a time.

Please let me know if I forget to mention anything and sorry if I did. Thanks again and have a nice day, Salvatore

mkevenson · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2013, 04:42:36 PM »

Salvatore, Welcome. The good news is, you have everything that you need to make a pizza dough.
Very basic ingredients are flour, water, yeast and salt. If you want you can add sweetener and oil but those are optional. Many folks bake pizza in their home oven at 500 F, cause thats what they have. If you use a pizza stone you can probably increase the stone temp to 525-550 F by heating it about an hour. If you can't find a pizza stone, see if you can find the same material as an outdoor wood oven floor, the kind they make bread on, and use that. Obviously it may have to be cut to fit your oven.
Hand mixing and hand kneading will be fine for small batches.
I suggest that you read some of the recipes here in the various section that are divided by style. Don't worry about the style now tho.
Let us know if you have a gram scale, nice if you do as all ingredients can be weighed.
When I 1st started making pizza dough I put the water in a bowl, added flour and mixed till the dough ball came away from the sides of the bowl, then dumped on a table which was lightly floured and kneaded till smooth and somewhat elastic.
I now measure everything by grams and it adds to the reproducibility of the product.

Good luck!
Sorry I am not a pro! Just a home cook.

Mark

sammybotz · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2013, 05:00:19 PM »

Thank you very much for your reply. I have a KG scale but not a gram scale. I guess that's a lot more precise maybe like a digital one.

I will check for a pizza stone tomorrow. I think I seen a pizza stone but it was a small diameter. Maybe I could use some other type of material they have at the local hardware here. They have granite, marble, bricks, etc. Not sure of everything they got.

Anyways thanks for your help and I shall wait for some more tips to help me along. Thanks again and have a nice day, Salvatore

scott123 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2013, 05:05:02 PM »

Sal, is this typical of the Little Vincent's pizza you're trying to recreate?

http://www.passion-4-pizza.com/little-vincents-pizza.html

Don't purchase a stone yet. The oven setup is something we'll have to eventually address, but, right now, your biggest obstacle is flour. All purpose flour lacks the necessary protein for great New York style pizza. I don't know how you are going to track it down, but you need to find stronger (a.k.a. higher protein) flour. 12.5% and higher (12.5g or more per 100g). Do you have any bakeries in your area? You may want to drop them a line and see what flour they are using.

sammybotz · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2013, 05:17:08 PM »

Yes, that little vincent pizza looks exactly what I'm looking to recreate.

I was thinking on eventually having some local workers here build me this type of wood burning oven ( I think I can do it for cheap):
http://salvatores.org/pompeii_oven_plans2.0.pdf

Then if that idea is not suggested possibly buying a gas pizza oven from this place close to me here:
http://www.cebumetalindustries.net/Products/bakery.htm

I will check into the bakeries tomorrow, thanks for the tip. I know I'm probably going to need a lot of suggestions to get this right. I found fresh mozzarella believe it or not and after about 10 tries I got good sauce, so I got those areas covered. I think the fresh mozzarella has an effect on what type of oven will be ideal for my setup here.

Thanks for your professional advice, I really appreciate you guys helping me out over here on the other side of the planet. Salvatore

sammybotz · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2013, 02:28:34 PM »

Is there any way I can add gluten (high protein) to all purpose flour to create pizza dough?

If so can someone please give me some details on the procedure.

Thank you very much

mkevenson · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2013, 04:35:38 PM »

Quote from: sammybotz on March 17, 2013, 02:28:34 PM

Is there any way I can add gluten (high protein) to all purpose flour to create pizza dough?

If so can someone please give me some details on the procedure.

Thank you very much

do a search for "vital wheat gluten", lots of posts. Norma has done some work with it.
I have only used once and I added 2 % to my flour. I think that I read 1-2% is a good place to start.
I believe that there are pros and cons, so read up!
Good luck!

Mark

sammybotz · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2013, 04:54:39 PM »

Thanks very much for the tip. I shall search for vital wheat gluten

Have a nice day.

norma427 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2013, 05:10:25 PM »

Salvatore,

You can read what VWG (Vital Wheat Gluten) is at the pizza glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#V Novembers’ tool can be used at the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator to combine VWG with flours to achieve the protein level you want. http://tools.foodsim.com/

Norma

sammybotz · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2013, 05:13:05 PM »

Thanks very much for those links, I really appreciate it.

scott123 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2013, 05:29:16 PM »

Salvatore, in my opinion, vital wheat gluten, if at all possible, should be avoided. Because of the way it's manufactured, it does not provide the same baking qualities as naturally occurring wheat protein, and it has a wet musty cardboard smell and taste that some people feel is noticeable with larger amounts, but that I feel is noticeable at any quantity.

VWG should only be a last resort after you've completely exhausted every other avenue.

sammybotz · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2013, 05:39:47 PM »

Scott may I ask what other avenues you recommend if I cannot find the exact flour down here in the Philippines I need?

Thank you very much

norma427 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2013, 07:46:14 PM »

Salvatore,

Some people here on the forum don’t like the taste of vital wheat gluten in a pizza crust, but there are members that don’t mind the taste of VWG when added to flour. I have tried different experiments with VWG in pizza doughs and I can’t tell the difference in the taste of the crust when using it compared to using flour with a higher protein content.

Maybe if you tried VWG then you would know if the taste when added to flour is objectionable to you.

Norma

scott123 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2013, 12:53:01 PM »

Quote from: sammybotz on March 17, 2013, 05:39:47 PM

Scott may I ask what other avenues you recommend if I cannot find the exact flour down here in the Philippines I need?

Salvatore, when I speak of avenues, I'm referring to every possible source for flour. I'm sincerely hoping that you will be able to track down a higher protein flour and not have to resort to VWG. I did a quick search for bread flour Philippines, and came up with this:

http://www.marketmanila.com/archives/12-12-4-bread-flour-and-other-baking-needs

The conversation appears to be primarily Manila-based, but it still might reference brands to look for, such as the one found in this comment here:

Quote

For bakery supplies, try CK Bakers Center (927-7549) along Edsa past Muñoz northbound. They don’t however carry the local Pilmico flours like Wooden Spoon which we normally use. The premium Pilmico bread flour has a protein content of 12.8 to 13.2%, compared to the 12.7% of the King Arthur bread flour. Maybe the unbleached nature of the KA and Gold Medal flours makes for better bread.

sammybotz · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2013, 12:58:01 PM »

Thanks very much for your research Scott. I shall follow up on it now. I really appreciate it.

I will keep you posted with the results. Thanks again, Salvatore

scott123 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:22:12 PM »

Sure thing, Salvatore. I did a little more digging, this time doing a search for Davao.

http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/were-bakin-again/
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/classifieds+directory/q/bread+flour
http://www.ph.all.biz/flour-bgc115
http://www.livingincebuforums.com/ipb/topic/47499-bread-flour/

sammybotz · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:33:42 PM »

I am in Butuan City so I guess anything here would be good because shipping flour from manila via plane would cost too much I would think. cagayan de oro is a 4 hour drive which would cost much less than airfare if anything is available there. Davao is about an 8 hour drive to Butuan City.

Thanks very much for your research and if I knew as much as you I guess I would know better google search phrases to do it myself.

scott123 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:39:21 PM »

What about shipping flour from Manila by boat? These three flours all look like winners.

http://www.ph.all.biz/hard-wheat-flour-montana-spring-g8921
http://www.ph.all.biz/dakota-champion-g8922
http://www.ph.all.biz/washington-gold-g8923

They will most likely either require a large order, but, with your professional aspirations, you might as well start working with bulk quantities now. You might want to see if they'll send you free samples.

sammybotz · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:47:05 PM »

Okay, sounds good. I'll check into it first thing tommorrow as our times are different. Thanks so much for helping me. I knew the dough was going to be the hard part but I'll get the job done as you say either way. This is something I have to get back for my dad. Long story but anyways thanks again and have a good day, Salvatore

scott123 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:53:33 PM »

Sounds good. A little more info on foremost (Bold mine)

http://www.philforemost.com/aboutus.htm

Quote

Our Manila Plant

In the year 2000, we expanded to Luzon with one of the most modern flourmills in the country. Today, we are one of the biggest producers with a distribution network covering the entire country.