Author Topic: pan pizza making  (Read 1701 times)

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Offline fersy

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pan pizza making
« on: March 08, 2013, 11:52:03 AM »
ok guys i have worked in a friends pizzeria for nearly a year now training in anticipation of the closing down of my real job (the factory ive worked in for 15 years)

my plan was to take the redundancy money myself and my brother were paid and open our own pizzeria as we both love pizza and the food joints seem to be the only things doing well round here in these difficult times.

anyway the time is upon us we have agreed a lease and are currently kitting the place out but theres something id really love to do,

let me explain. at my friends pizzeria he only makes the traditional stonebaked thin type of base but i love pan pizza. i have asked him about it but he doesnt really know anything about it. also in my city theres several pizza shops but pizza hut aside none offer deep pan pizzas anymore.

the fact myself and loads of people i know love them had me thinking obviously if i could add those to my menu there would be something none of my competitors are really offering but ive really no clue of the difference with regards to making the bases.

a few places used to offer them here years ago but do not now which got me wondering are they more hassle or more expensive to make?

if anybody could help me out with not just the technique for making them but also practices for being able to do them effectively in a business setting id be really grateful.

ive a few questions that have been puzzling me and have looked about a bit (this guys video was not very informative but really funny especially when be the end hes covered in flour and completely legless lol)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi9oY8ifLTA[/youtube] 

but see conflicting info out there and its hard to find hours at a time in front of my pc to filter out all the irrelevant info with all the stuff im involved in atm trying to get the business up and running. anyway here goes,

1. is it just the same dough as you use for the thin based pizzas only maybe proved in the pan for a while or do you need to make seperate batches?

actually that question will do for now as the others depend on the answer to the first question lol

any help really appreciated. thanks
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 09:51:26 AM by Steve »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 04:38:54 PM »
fersy,

I think it will help alot if you can tell us exactly which type of "pan" pizza you would like to sell...Sicilian pan, Chicago Deep Dish, Pizza Hut Pan, etc.



And yes, I do believe there have been some places that use the same dough for both thin and pan pizza's. I'm sure it is not optimum but there are some tricks that could be implemented to create a better product.
Also, do you have any idea on the percentage of pies sold vs the type of style. I know that is hard to predict...the deep/pan pizza's can sometimes be a slow mover and to just get that style off the ground and onto your menu I believe there are some technique's that could be used in your situation such as pre baking skins, possibly freezing, quick rising, etc.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline mkevenson

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2013, 06:50:20 PM »
ok guys i have worked in a friends pizzeria for nearly a year now training in anticipation of the closing down of my real job (the factory ive worked in for 15 years)



(this guys video was not very informative but really funny especially when be the end hes covered in flour and completely legless lol)  


any help really appreciated. thanks

Good luck on your pizzeria! I like this guys (in the video) work ethic. Not sure about his business plan ??? The overhead on the liquor alone might just sink him.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 07:01:45 PM »
I like how he is able to whip out the 'ol gram scale at will from his vest pocket.... :-D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline mkevenson

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 07:27:21 PM »
Ya, and to get exactly 1.6 gr of ADY by shaking it our of a jar. Funny, I always have to use a spoon and even then I am pulling some out or adding a bit. I think we all should reexamine our dough making procedures. This guy has it down. ::)
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 09:50:24 PM »
Ya, and to get exactly 1.6 gr of ADY by shaking it our of a jar. Funny, I always have to use a spoon and even then I am pulling some out or adding a bit. I think we all should reexamine our dough making procedures. This guy has it down. ::)
Yep...me thinks he knows how to make dough $$... >:D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline fersy

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 10:11:18 PM »
lol he is funny alright. "pick out any pieces of the label that may have stuck to the dough when you rolled it" ;D

cheers for the replies guys and bob i dont really know the differences between those lol. im aiming for something similar to pizza huts style which is kinda fluffy and crispy.

i see vids of people making single pies and recipes for single pies but im kinda wondering how you can make those ideas work in larger numbers in a busy (i hope) pizzeria enviroment.

like for example can i make a load of bases in pans then put them in the fridge after they have proofed for a while to stop them over expanding so they can be taken out as needed, sauced topped and into the oven? or do i need to make the dough fresh for each one as in those recipes as that wouldnt be very practical especially if busy.

with the regular pizzas im used to making in my friends joint a batch of dough is made at the start of the shift (2 batches on fri, sat and sunday) rolled in balls 1 batch makes approx 80 doughballs of a mixture of the various sizes required and then they just sit in trays to be used for the whole day unless the odd time another batch is required.

with it not being particularly warm here especially this time of year the dough lasts the day without turning into footballs lol.

what im trying to figure out is if theres a way to do similar with deep pan. even if the doughs different it would not be a great hardship making 2 different batches but im not sure the pan bases could be left out all day like the regular ones as ive never had experience with them.

i think it could really help my business doing them because pizza hut aside and they dont deliver none of the places round here offer deep pan and a lot of people i talk to are crying out for them


i just picked up my new mixer today (cuppone silea 40k) its currently sitting in my kitchen until i get the key for my premises this week and i am tempted to go buy a 16kg bag of flour and make a batch of dough to mess about with just for experiments sake lol
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 10:25:20 PM by fersy »

Offline fersy

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2013, 08:39:26 AM »
ok so decided to just jump in and give it a go so i bought a couple of 9" pans and the ingredients and loosely followed the drunkard in the vids stolen pizza hut recipe although not having a bottle of vodka available i had to substitute that for a rolling pin lol.

to my amazement and that of my missus they tasted amazing lol. looked pretty good too for a first ever attempt though i used a bit much dough and ended up with a base over an inch thick though it tasted great and was very easily eaten so that was ok. here are some pics.

now i have to figure out how i can do similar in a shop enviroment without having to leave the dough for an hour and a half to proof before every one i cook lol.

bit of experimenting when i get my shop kitted out methinks
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 10:30:31 AM by Steve »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 12:16:04 PM »
fersy,

Since you have been using the term "base" for what we commonly call a "skin" in the U.S., I take that to mean that you are not in the U.S. That might be helpful to know since Pizza Hut operates in close to a hundred different countries, and its dough formulations can vary from one country to another. For example, in the U.S., and I believe in some of its stores in Canada also, PH has for several years been using chemical- and additive-laden frozen pan pizza doughs. Yet, in some other countries, such as in Malaysia, it appears that PH is still using fresh doughs in its stores: http://www.pizzahut.com.my/dining/about-15min.html. So, if you are trying to emulate the "old" PH pan pizza doughs, you will want to use the procedures that are the more common ones for the old PH style of pan pizzas.

In the above vein, you might want to take a look at the following items inasmuch as they reflect the above objective:

1. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,213.0.html

2. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,208.msg1424.html#msg1424

3. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4067.msg33930.html#msg33930

4. Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4607.msg38909.html#msg38909

5. http://www.pmq.com/Recipe-Bank/index.php/name/Deep-Dish-Pizza/record/57725/

6. http://www.espanol.pizzahut.com/menu/nutritioninfo/documents/ph_ingredients.pdf

7. http://pizza-hut-team-member.blogspot.com/2007/06/early-and-late.html

The first three items cover the way that PH used to make its pan doughs in the U.S. before it went to frozen doughs. The fourth item discusses how to calculate the amount of dough for a PH pan style pizza that was used by PH to make its pan pizzas. The fifth item comes from the PMQ Recipe Bank and describes the way that Tom Lehmann, a dough specialist with the American Institute of Baking (and also a member of this forum), often recommends for a deep dish pizza like the PH pan pizza. The sixth item is a 2004 PH dough ingredients document that I believe applied to the "old" pan doughs that PH used to use. The last item is UK specific. From that document, it appears that PH went to frozen doughs in at least some of its UK stores.

Good luck.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2013, 12:16:37 PM »
fersy,

I use my regular Lehmann dough and do make Greek style pizzas in a pan.  I posted different times on the Greek thread, but this is just one picture of a Greek style pizza made in a steel pan at Reply 507 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg240281.html#msg240281  I use the same size dough ball as for my NY style pizzas so I donít have to make different size dough balls.  I have also made Sicilian style pizzas out of the same Lehmann dough like I posted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21198.0.html  I donít sell those kind of Sicilian pizza though because I like Detroit style pizzas better now.

I do temper the dough first though.

Norma
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Offline fersy

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2013, 04:38:51 PM »
cheers guys. and pete you are correct im from n. ireland.
im not necessarily looking for pizza hut clones it was just id never tried making pan pizza before and that was the first recipe i came across.

tbh im more trying to figure out the logistics (if thats the correct word lol) of doing it on a larger scale where speed is more important. i actually put the remainder of that dough in the fridge last night to see how it would be to cook today and made another couple today they were tasty :pizza: :drool:

maybe i could just use say my regular 18" doughballs for a 12" pan pizza etc rather than have to make any special arrangements for each type. once i get my premises finished kitting out in a couple of weeks i will be in a much better position to experiment.

and norma that pizza just made me hungry again lol

Offline RoadPizza

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2013, 11:13:35 PM »
Pete gave you a tool to figure out the correct dough thickness. Use it and figure out your costs first because you need to make money. If you need to have different dough sizes, do it.  Many places that do pan pizzas on a large scale will parbake it first. That is, they will stretch it out on a pan first with oil and allow it to proof before docking it (making holes to let the air out during baking) and parbaking it(pre-cooking the shell to a yellow color).

Offline fersy

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 12:09:02 PM »
cheers guys for all the help. im flat out trying to get all the necessary arrangements with the premises and insurance and all the equipment and meet people regarding stock and menus etc so its hard to find much free time atm lol but ill get a good read through all that stuff pete posted now and get a better idea where to start when i get all my equipment set up.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 08:24:32 PM »
The major allowance/difference between pan and regular in a commercial environment is that you will rise/retard your dough in the pan in which it will be cooked.  This means more pans and more space in the walk in (fridge).

Offline fersy

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Re: pan pizza making
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2013, 08:32:18 PM »
thats what i thought, cheers mate. havent had much time to get back to it the last week been flat out with leases and buying gear and designing stuff lol.