Author Topic: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions  (Read 4973 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2013, 08:37:50 PM »
I baked a HRI frozen Uncured Pepperoni Pizza tonight.  The bake was done at 410 degrees F for about 25 minutes.  There was still a gum-line in some areas of the pizza, but in some areas there wasnít any gum-line.  The layers can be seen in the crust.  The bottom crust of the pizza didnít brown very much.  The frozen pizza was defrosted all the way before the bake.

I weighed the HRI Uncured Pepperoni defrosted pizza before the bake and it weighed 1.125 oz., or 808 grams.  Right after the bake the HRI Uncured Pepperoni pizza weighed 1.103 oz., or 746 grams.

Since I ate a few slices cold now, I can notice the flaky layers more than when the pizza was first cut and still hot.

Norma
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2013, 08:39:47 PM »
Norma, those are very good photos of the layers.  They look like the layers I had on my frozen HRI.   :chef:

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2013, 08:48:57 PM »
Norma, those are very good photos of the layers.  They look like the layers I had on my frozen HRI.   :chef:

CDNpielover,

Good to hear the layers looked like the ones you had on your frozen HRI pizza.  Did you have any gum-line issues?

Norma
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2013, 09:01:52 PM »
Norma, I did not notice, although I have to admit that I wasn't really looking as I've just recently learned what a gum line is!   :-[. When i get back to the states, I will have to pick up some more frozen HRI pizzas and see if I have a gum line.

Offline norma427

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2013, 09:20:21 PM »
Norma, I did not notice, although I have to admit that I wasn't really looking as I've just recently learned what a gum line is!   :-[. When i get back to the states, I will have to pick up some more frozen HRI pizzas and see if I have a gum line.

CDNpielover,

Lol, that is okay if recently discovered what a gum line was.  We all have to learn things. 

I wonder if Garvey or another member can bake a HRI frozen pizza without any gum lines.  Maybe I was baking wrong, but I did rotate the pizza while it was in the oven.

Norma
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2013, 10:43:13 PM »
I always like a small gum line.....is it not suppose to have one?

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2013, 07:01:03 AM »
I always like a small gum line.....is it not suppose to have one?

Terry,

Since I never ate a real HRI pizza, I donít know if the frozen HRI pizzas, or the real ones, are supposed to have gum lines.  When I posted the pictures of my HRI frozen cheese pizza at Reply 443 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg243681.html#msg243681 that pizza had more gum lines than the one I baked yesterday. 

Bob replied at 445 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg243696.html#msg243696 that my first HRI frozen pizza had some serious gum line issues going on.  That is what prompted me to email HRI about the gumminess under the cheese.

Norma
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2013, 09:38:47 AM »
Norma,

I am beginning to think that an HRI pizza is more prone to gum lines than other types of pizzas, and it may be more pronounced for the HRI pizzas made in its pizzerias than for the frozen HRI pizzas. I think part of the explanation has to do with the amount of "stuff" that is put on the HRI pizzas. For example, when I dissected one of the 12" HRI frozen pepperoni pizzas and weighed the pepperoni slices, the cheese and the sauce, the total weight was 14.64 ounces. Notably, the weight of the cheese alone was 10.33 ounces. Later, when I did the same thing with two 12" HRI sausage pizzas, which weigh about two ounces more than the pepperoni pizzas, the total weights of the cheese, sauce and sausage were 15.2 ounces and 15.52 ounces (see Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242492.html#msg242492). Remember, these weights were for pizzas that had already been partially baked and gave up some water content in the process. Also, it appears that some of the HRI frozen pizzas have more sauce than others. So, by my estimate, the above numbers may be a few percent on the low side.

If we now assume that the dough ball weight for a 12" HRI pizza is 15 ounces, which I deem to be a plausible number from my analysis, it can easily be seen from the above numbers, especially when they are adjusted for water loss during the par-bake, are higher than the weight of the dough itself. Even though the HRI dough is a sturdy and fairly dense dough (with its high oil content, low hydration value, and an estimated thickness factor of a bit over 0.13) and capable of holding everything that is put on it, I think these weights impose a burden on the way that the end pizza is baked, in terms of the type of oven used, the oven positioning, the type of carrier used (e.g., disk, cutter pan or their equivalent), bake temperature, and bake time. The balance between these factors has to be just right to be able to bake the crust to the right final color and to melt the cheese to the desired degree, and especially so if there is an above average amount of cheese on the skin. If there are a lot of toppings, these factors become even more critical because more things have to be baked. Under the circumstances, I can see how it might be easy to end up with a gum line. I don't think that it happens very often where what is put on a skin or crust for a flat profile pizza weighs more than the skin or crust itself. Maybe when this happens, a gum line is more probable.

As a cross check, I went to the Burke guide at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14822.msg147190.html#msg147190 to check out typical amounts of cheese used on 12" pizzas. As can be seen there, a typical 12" pizza has a maximum Burke guide cheese quantity of 7.5 ounces. The HRI pepperoni pizza that I mentioned above had 10.33 ounces, and that weight was after some loss of water content. For sausage, the maximum Burke guide weight for a typical 12" pizza is 7.5 ounces for raw sausage and 5.75 ounces for cooked sausage. A typical, or generic, raw, fresh pork sausage contains about 56% water (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sausages-and-luncheon-meats/1375/2). On this basis, HRI appears to be above the Burke guide numbers, and in some cases perhaps considerably higher than the Burke guide numbers. In fact, HRI has said that it uses more sausage than what the USDA specifies as the minimum for pizza (see the article at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51738.html#msg51738.

As a further cross check, the other day while I was at my local supermarket, I examined the Nutrition Facts for several types and brands of frozen pizzas. I was looking for numbers other than pizza weights but it seemed to me that most 12" frozen cheese and pepperoni pizzas weighed less than the HRI frozen pizzas. I didn't do a rigorous analysis but that was my impression. Even a 12" Papa John's pizza, whose dough skin has a comparable thickness factor, weighs less than a typical frozen HRI cheese pizza.

Peter

« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 09:45:07 AM by Pete-zza »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2013, 10:18:22 AM »
I always like a small gum line.....is it not suppose to have one?
Terry,
When it comes to thin crust pizza making I have often heard many, many people express their disdain of the "dreaded gum line". It can definitely be difficult to avoid in certain pizza's.
I'm in your camp...a small gum line has never bothered me one bit.

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2013, 10:23:31 AM »
Norma,

I am beginning to think that an HRI pizza is more prone to gum lines than other types of pizzas, and it may be more pronounced for the HRI pizzas made in its pizzerias than for the frozen HRI pizzas. I think part of the explanation has to do with the amount of "stuff" that is put on the HRI pizzas. For example, when I dissected one of the 12" HRI frozen pepperoni pizzas and weighed the pepperoni slices, the cheese and the sauce, the total weight was 14.64 ounces. Notably, the weight of the cheese alone was 10.33 ounces. Later, when I did the same thing with two 12" HRI sausage pizzas, which weigh about two ounces more than the pepperoni pizzas, the total weights of the cheese, sauce and sausage were 15.2 ounces and 15.52 ounces (see Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242492.html#msg242492). Remember, these weights were for pizzas that had already been partially baked and gave up some water content in the process. Also, it appears that some of the HRI frozen pizzas have more sauce than others. So, by my estimate, the above numbers may be a few percent on the low side.

If we now assume that the dough ball weight for a 12" HRI pizza is 15 ounces, which I deem to be a plausible number from my analysis, it can easily be seen from the above numbers, especially when they are adjusted for water loss during the par-bake, are higher than the weight of the dough itself. Even though the HRI dough is a sturdy and fairly dense dough (with its high oil content, low hydration value, and an estimated thickness factor of a bit over 0.13) and capable of holding everything that is put on it, I think these weights impose a burden on the way that the end pizza is baked, in terms of the type of oven used, the oven positioning, the type of carrier used (e.g., disk, cutter pan or their equivalent), bake temperature, and bake time. The balance between these factors has to be just right to be able to bake the crust to the right final color and to melt the cheese to the desired degree, and especially so if there is an above average amount of cheese on the skin. If there are a lot of toppings, these factors become even more critical because more things have to be baked. Under the circumstances, I can see how it might be easy to end up with a gum line. I don't think that it happens very often where what is put on a skin or crust for a flat profile pizza weighs more than the skin or crust itself. Maybe when this happens, a gum line is more probable.

As a cross check, I went to the Burke guide at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14822.msg147190.html#msg147190 to check out typical amounts of cheese used on 12" pizzas. As can be seen there, a typical 12" pizza has a maximum Burke guide cheese quantity of 7.5 ounces. The HRI pepperoni pizza that I mentioned above had 10.33 ounces, and that weight was after some loss of water content. For sausage, the maximum Burke guide weight for a typical 12" pizza is 7.5 ounces for raw sausage and 5.75 ounces for cooked sausage. A typical, or generic, raw, fresh pork sausage contains about 56% water (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sausages-and-luncheon-meats/1375/2). On this basis, HRI appears to be above the Burke guide numbers, and in some cases perhaps considerably higher than the Burke guide numbers. In fact, HRI has said that it uses more sausage than what the USDA specifies as the minimum for pizza (see the article at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51738.html#msg51738.

As a further cross check, the other day while I was at my local supermarket, I examined the Nutrition Facts for several types and brands of frozen pizzas. I was looking for numbers other than pizza weights but it seemed to me that most 12" frozen cheese and pepperoni pizzas weighed less than the HRI frozen pizzas. I didn't do a rigorous analysis but that was my impression. Even a 12" Papa John's pizza, whose dough skin has a comparable thickness factor, weighs less than a typical frozen HRI cheese pizza.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining in detail why you are beginning to think that an HRI pizza is more prone to gum lines than other types of pizzas and explaining why.  It is interesting that you also think the gum lines might be more pronounced for the HRI pizzas made in it pizzerias.  I really donít mind gum lines a lot, but rather not have them when eating any pizza.  I can see now from your post that HRI does use a lot of dressings for a base, or dough that doesnít weigh a lot.   

After eating some of that frozen HRI Uncured Pepperoni pizza, I really can say honestly that I donít see what is the hype about a frozen HRI pizza.  I might get get jabbed about that statement, but I like a pizza that has a lot more taste than a frozen HRI pizza does.  The crust didnít really do anything for me even though parts of it were flaky.  It almost reminded me of eating a pie crust and the toppings were somewhat dry.  I know probably I didnít bake right again, but I guess I must not be a fan of thin pizzas baked for a longer time at a lower temperature.  I know I never tasted a real HRI pizza fresh, so maybe my opinion might change if I had the chance to try one.

I did send another email to HRI.  This is what I said.

I baked a Home Run Inn bigger uncured pepperoni larger frozen pizza last night.  I did defrost the pizza first and baked the pizza at 410 degrees F.  It was good, but still had the gumminess under the sauce on part of the pizza and not on another part.  I did turn the pizza while it was in the oven a few times so it would bake right.  I wonder if pizzas at a Home Run Inn pizza really have that gumminess too and is that normal for your kind of pizza?  I  liked the flaky crust, which this time was more flakey than the last time I baked the frozen pizza.  Also I would like to know if you pizzas at your pizza business are that light on the bottom.  I am trying to bake your frozen pizzas the best I can, so that is why I am asking questions. 

I included a few photos.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2013, 10:59:53 AM »
Norma,

I think it is asking a lot for a frozen pizza to replicate a pizza that is made in a pizzeria. Unfortunately, there is no information like Nutrition Facts for the pizzas that HRI makes in its pizzerias. Also, when you try to translate a fresh pizzeria pizza to a frozen version, even when the formulations and ingredients and quantities are identical or nearly so, there are things that have to be changed to adapt the formulations to a high volume commercial setting, which is highly industrialized and computerized. Almost by definition, the pizzas can't be identical. Also, by the time that a frozen pizza made in one of the HRI plants reaches the consumer, who may hold the frozen pizzas in the freezer for some indefinite period of time, there is bound to be some degradation in quality by the time the pizza is baked in the consumer's oven.

I personally feel that the better approach is to take the HRI dough formulation, as best we understand it, from the frozen pizza side and translate that to the pizzeria side. In effect, we would be doing the opposite of what HRI has done to create the frozen pizza version from the pizzeria version. I would use essentially the same dough formulation but use a two or three day cold fermentation, and also the preparation methods that are used in the HRI pizzerias (and have been discussed previously in the other HRI threads). The two or three day cold fermentation alone will give more crust flavor. And, if you'd like, you can add things to the sauce to boost the flavor profile. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the pizza sauce used in the HRI pizzerias is now a version that came out of the HRI frozen pizza operation. It would be impractical to make two different sauces for the two operations. And since the HRI frozen pizza operation has become the tail that is wagging the dog in terms of revenue generation, it would make sense to use the pizza sauce used in the HRI frozen pizza plants in its pizzerias, even if it was designed to work in the sauce dispensing equipment used in the HRI plants and may not be as good as one that is specifically designed for a pizzeria.

Peter

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2013, 11:00:20 AM »
Sort of crazy isn't it Norma? I've had frozen HRI pizza that was bland as can be and then, like in my last one, had a pie that really put me in the mind of having one at their original 31st. location. What's going on here.   ::)
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2013, 11:04:58 AM »
Peter,
I would like to mix one up for a 2-3 day cold ferment. Would you like to suggest a formula...I'll make a 12incher.

Bob

I can let one go 2 days and the other for 3 or more...
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2013, 11:13:18 AM »
Sort of crazy isn't it Norma? I've had frozen HRI pizza that was bland as can be and then, like in my last one, had a pie that really put me in the mind of having one at their original 31st. location. What's going on here.   ::)
Bob,

That's a good question. I think what may be happening is that the HRI frozen pizzas of a given type (e.g., cheese, pepperoni, etc.) all weigh pretty much the same but the amounts of ingredients can vary from one pizza to another. So, in one pizza you may be getting more sauce or sausage or cheese than another. About the only constant is the pepperoni. There are always only 14 slices, whether that is for a pepperoni pizza or a sausage and pepperoni pizza, and their weights are almost identical (a bit under one ounce).

Peter

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2013, 11:17:00 AM »
Peter,
I would like to mix one up for a 2-3 day cold ferment. Would you like to suggest a formula...I'll make a 12incher.

Bob

I can let one go 2 days and the other for 3 or more...
Bob,

If you don't mind, please repeat your request over at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.0.html so that this thread doesn't go too far off topic. Please also tell me what kind of pizza you want to make, that is, a cheese pizza, a pepperoni pizza or a sausage and pepperoni pizza.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2013, 11:49:06 AM »
Norma,

I think it is asking a lot for a frozen pizza to replicate a pizza that is made in a pizzeria. Unfortunately, there is no information like Nutrition Facts for the pizzas that HRI makes in its pizzerias. Also, when you try to translate a fresh pizzeria pizza to a frozen version, even when the formulations and ingredients and quantities are identical or nearly so, there are things that have to be changed to adapt the formulations to a high volume commercial setting, which is highly industrialized and computerized. Almost by definition, the pizzas can't be identical. Also, by the time that a frozen pizza made in one of the HRI plants reaches the consumer, who may hold the frozen pizzas in the freezer for some indefinite period of time, there is bound to be some degradation in quality by the time the pizza is baked in the consumer's oven.

I personally feel that the better approach is to take the HRI dough formulation, as best we understand it, from the frozen pizza side and translate that to the pizzeria side. In effect, we would be doing the opposite of what HRI has done to create the frozen pizza version from the pizzeria version. I would use essentially the same dough formulation but use a two or three day cold fermentation, and also the preparation methods that are used in the HRI pizzerias (and have been discussed previously in the other HRI threads). The two or three day cold fermentation alone will give more crust flavor. And, if you'd like, you can add things to the sauce to boost the flavor profile. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the pizza sauce used in the HRI pizzerias is now a version that came out of the HRI frozen pizza operation. It would be impractical to make two different sauces for the two operations. And since the HRI frozen pizza operation has become the tail that is wagging the dog in terms of revenue generation, it would make sense to use the pizza sauce used in the HRI frozen pizza plants in its pizzerias, even if it was designed to work in the sauce dispensing equipment used in the HRI plants and may not be as good as one that is specifically designed for a pizzeria.

Peter

Peter,

I agree that it is asking a lot for a HRI frozen pizza to replicate a fresh pizza that is made in HRI pizzerias.  I know HRI has all the high tech equipment to make HRI frozen pizzas, but also know there canít be anything better than tasting a fresh pizza to see what it tastes like.  I can understand why the pizzas canít be the same by definition.  I noticed last evening that the HRI pizza I baked didnít have as much sauce as the basic cheese HRI frozen pizza did that I baked before. 

I agree with you that the better approach is to take the HRI dough formulation, as best as we understand it and then try to make a fresh HRI clone pizza.  I appreciate you suggestions to do a two or three day cold fermentation for the skin.  I know my crust, sauce and cheese on my recent attempted HRI clone had a better flavor in the crust and toppings than the HRI frozen pizza I just baked last night, even though the formulation I used didnít fit right. 

Thanks for your thoughts!

Norma
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2013, 11:52:32 AM »
Sort of crazy isn't it Norma? I've had frozen HRI pizza that was bland as can be and then, like in my last one, had a pie that really put me in the mind of having one at their original 31st. location. What's going on here.   ::)

Bob,

I know it is kinda crazy.  The first HRI pizza I baked had a better flavor than the one I baked last evening, even though the crust was flaky last night and their was less of a gum line.  At least you have tasted a real HRI pizza.

Norma
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2013, 11:58:44 AM »
Bob,

I know it is kinda crazy.  The first HRI pizza I baked had a better flavor than the one I baked last evening, even though the crust was flaky last night and their was less of a gum line.  At least you have tasted a real HRI pizza.

Norma
Ha! But it was so long ago that I really don't remember the taste real well Norma.
All I do know is that it was like no other pizza I had ever had and it was real good. So good that I'm not yet ready to give up on trying to make something that I can't even remember what it tastes like!  :-D
Is that CrAzY or what? !  :'(
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2013, 12:05:43 PM »
Ha! But it was so long ago that I really don't remember the taste real well Norma.
All I do know is that it was like no other pizza I had ever had and it was real good. So good that I'm not yet ready to give up on trying to make something that I can't even remember what it tastes like!  :-D
Is that CrAzY or what? !  :'(

Bob,

Lol, that you donít remember the taste that well.  :-D At least you memory does remind you that it was a great pizza.  I can understand why you arenít ready to give up.  What you are attempting to do doesnít sound that crazy to me.  What is even crazier to me is I never tasted a fresh HRI pizza, so I really wonít know if I get there if I try another attempt.  :-D

Norma
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Re: Frozen Home Run Inn pizza heating instructions
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2013, 09:32:43 PM »
Garvey will you freeze any of your dough? and then thaw and use it?  Or is it fresh and planning ahead for you?

Yeah, for me it's fresh and plan ahead.  I have a problem eating young dough--too many "off" flavors and too many digestibility issues.  I know dough can be frozen, but I've never done it.  Maybe I should give that a try.

Thanks!
Garvey