Author Topic: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????  (Read 2160 times)

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Offline TomN

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Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« on: March 24, 2013, 11:55:20 PM »
I just would like feedback from everyone on this subject.

In the beginning of Jeff Varasano's NY Pizza Recipe video (which I learned about on pizzamaking.com), he talks about Potassium Bromate  in some high gluten flours and that it is banned in every country except the U.S.  More importantly, he says that it causes cancer. Can any identify the bag of flour that he is holding in the video? It is purposely blurred.

Again, I would love to hear any feedback on this subject. Thank you.

http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm

TomN

PS

perhaps Tom  Lehmann can talk about this since this is a very scary thing.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 12:14:41 AM by TomN »


Online scott123

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 12:16:53 AM »
The thread for this topic already exists.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23714.0.html

Tom has expressed his feelings on bromate many times. Do a forum search.

Offline TomN

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 12:19:35 AM »
Thanks Scott123,

What are your thoughts on this? Do you agree with him??? Thanks

TomN
PS
This is the first i have heard of this. And if it does cause CANCER, so what if there is more than one thread on the subject
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 12:21:20 AM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 12:29:20 AM »
From an old research study.....this whole studio was fed pizza made with All Trumps flour.  :drool:

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Offline TomN

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 12:34:24 AM »
I only ask because people in my family have battled cancer, so when I see someone saying a certain chemical can cause it, I am all ears.  I just want to know if this is the true. I just thought that maybe others on here might be more knowledgeable about the subject.

TomN

Online scott123

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 12:35:14 AM »
What are your thoughts on this?


My thoughts are that uninformed knee jerk beliefs (such as Jeff's) can be very tiring to have to address, especially when the topic has been beaten to death over and over and over again  :-D

Seriously, though, bromate, when fed to mice in massive quantities, causes cancer. Mice. Massive quantities. There has never been (nor will there ever be), a correlation between bromated flour and cancer in humans.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12692.msg126159.html#msg126159

The majority of bottled and municipal drinking water contains as much bromate as pizza made with bromated flour.  That's how dangerous it is.

Offline TomN

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 12:36:08 AM »
Thanks for the feedback.

Anyone else have an opinion on this? Thank you

TomN

Offline jeff v

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 12:39:00 AM »
And if it does cause CANCER, so what if there is more than one thread on the subject

Scott123 would probably tell you to bold the if in that sentence.  ;)

Because you end up with 50 threads asking the same thing with bits and pieces of info instead of a conversation with lots of relevant info in one spot. Things are much easier to search and read when a specific subject (thoughts on bromate for example) is in one place.

Offline TomN

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 12:46:32 AM »
And your opinion of the subject jeff v???

Online scott123

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 12:46:51 AM »
Tom, I have a history of cancer in my family as well and I've studied this for countless hours because I didn't want to be ingesting something harmful. If you're really concerned, analyze the science rather than reacting to fearmongering. I've got enough documentation to fill a book.  If you really want the facts, and have the time to read everything, I'll gladly share the info I have with you.


Offline jeff v

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 12:54:41 AM »
And your opinion of the subject jeff v???

If you like it...eat it. I don't use brominated flour, but its not out of a fear of cancer. If I found a place I liked used it, it wouldn't stop me from grabbing a slice now and then.

Offline TomN

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 01:02:19 AM »
Thanks Jeff & Thanks Scott for the feedback.

The way he said it in the video was so convincing that it kind of caught me off guard.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 01:05:20 AM by TomN »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 01:07:12 AM »
How come jeff v doesn't talk about how those other countries that don't allow that flour still allow cigarette smoke in their pizza joint though?
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Online scott123

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 01:08:30 AM »
Sure thing, Tom.

FWIW, there are some members in this forum who think Jeff was joking and that it was all a big prank. The vast majority of his favorite pizzerias all use bromated flour.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 06:41:33 AM »
Here's my take on the subject, I abuse my body in so many different ways that I'm gonna die from something long before bromate in my pizza kills me! Worry is the biggest killer there is, so I'm not worrying. :P

Offline Don K

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 07:26:02 AM »
Really, all that has been proven is that you shouldn't feed large amounts of your pizza made with bromated flour to mice. Mice are really not good test subjects for humans.

BTW, do you like raw mushrooms in your salad? Better think twice...scientists have killed mice with them too!

Actually, let's face it, scientists just don't like mice.

Oh, then there is always the large amounts of Dihydrogen Monoxide that we all add to our pizza! :o

« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 07:29:02 AM by Don K »
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Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 08:05:21 AM »
Seriously, though, bromate, when fed to mice in massive quantities, causes cancer. Mice. Massive quantities.

So what ;-) That is true of all carcinogenicity studies. Dosing in massive quantities over a lifetime in species other than humans. And 98% of the chemicals that are classified as carcinogen are classified because of the results of such tests. So if bromate causes cancer in mice when fed massive quantities over a lifetime, that would be reason enough to classify bromate as a carcinogen. But wait, there's more.

Quote
There has never been (nor will there ever be), a correlation between bromated flour and cancer in humans.

That is because bromate in flour does not lead to exposure to bromate from baked products. Bromate oxidizes flour components after addition of water (making dough) and heat (baking), and gets converted (quantitatively) into bromide. So any risk assessment of bromate in flour will result in zero exposure, and, as such, zero risk, no matter what the hazard of bromate is.

Now whether you want to base yourself on the outcome of the actual risk assessment or want to regulate based on hazard (read: chemophobia), depends primarily on your political outlook. The US chose to be pragmatic, whereas the EU chose to follow the chemophobia path...

Offline tombiasi

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 08:25:48 AM »
So what ;-) That is true of all carcinogenicity studies.
The state of California has determined that mice will develop cancer if experimented on.

Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 08:28:51 AM »
The state of California has determined that mice will develop cancer if experimented on.
Certainly if experimented on long enough  ;)

Online Steve

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Re: Potassium Bromate in flour causes Cancer?????
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 08:56:04 AM »
That is because bromate in flour does not lead to exposure to bromate from baked products. Bromate oxidizes flour components after addition of water (making dough) and heat (baking), and gets converted (quantitatively) into bromide. So any risk assessment of bromate in flour will result in zero exposure, and, as such, zero risk, no matter what the hazard of bromate is.

I agree, the very act of cooking (baking) your dough chemically changes the bromate into bromide.
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