Author Topic: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts  (Read 2556 times)

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Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2013, 03:15:30 PM »
thanks ChicagoBob! keeping going for sure! :chef:

I finally made the first Nikkilä doughball with Scott's suggested recipe (after only 2 days as I noticed it had already risen pretty well) and it turned out wildly better than the hard sadness that was before - I wonder if there was something up with my yeast last time.

1 x 12" doughball, 2 day cold ferment
---------------------
Flour 100%
Water 60%
IDY 0.25%
Salt 1.75%
Oil 3%
Sugar 1%

I'm working on my white sauce recipe so I made a half white, half red+white pie (yeah that's why half the pie looks pink) and used some ricotta too. It was a little "too much" but for tomorrow's nikkilä attempt I will just do a basic margherita. Excited to see how 2 vs 3 day ferment will effect the flavor of the crust. Sorry for the slightly yellowy pics, I started to run out of daylight!

observations:
- the doughball was stickier this time around and thus harder to work with (I even got a tear I had to mend) and so I ended up with a much thicker crust than I like.
- wonderful oven spring coupled with crispness in the outer crust though. less chewy than the Knehtilä, but in a good "not gonna loose a tooth in that" way. definitely can appreciate the lack of bran.
- best flour consistency so far? flavor is quite good although not right. I'm excited to see how this will taste with the DM added and as I experiment more.
- tonight's white sauce was a little off consistencywise but hey, learning on that front too!


Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 04:03:45 PM »
I ordered bag of King Arthurs bread flour, i will make a test run when i get it. If its good you should get it too Mitten!

Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2013, 06:10:05 AM »
Morgan definitely tell us how the testruns turn out!

I've actually been thinking that it would be good to have experience with something like KASL firsthand, just for making comparisons. Did you order directly from King Arthur? what was the shipping like?

Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2013, 06:44:46 AM »
Morgan definitely tell us how the testruns turn out!

I've actually been thinking that it would be good to have experience with something like KASL firsthand, just for making comparisons. Did you order directly from King Arthur? what was the shipping like?


For sure! You might also be intrested of this Fazer dough balls: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23178.100.html


Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 07:09:46 AM »
For sure! You might also be intrested of this Fazer dough balls: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23178.100.html


wow excellent developments Morgan! I should test out the fazer dough, even though the reason I am here is because I find most pizzeria pizza crusts in Finland to be very sad compared to what I miss from NY  :) and I have figured that one reason is that everybody uses the same effing bulk dough - and I don't know if you can ever make ART with bulk dough, you know? Still... one needs to test everything to become great, no?  :)

I still don't want to believe that one has to import the flour for pizza - it's so ridiculous! if fazer can acquire it they can't be getting it from overseas? I feel like the perfect flour MUST exist over here!

Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 07:49:07 AM »
wow excellent developments Morgan! I should test out the fazer dough, even though the reason I am here is because I find most pizzeria pizza crusts in Finland to be very sad compared to what I miss from NY  :)

Im pretty sure you wont find this in Fin, you have to make it by yourself of go back to NY :-D Reminding though that you know what your searching for and that makes it lot more easier. You can order differend flours etc. I never had NY pie so for me it would be impossible to even try to succeed :-[

Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2013, 09:37:42 AM »
Im pretty sure you wont find this in Fin, you have to make it by yourself of go back to NY :-D Reminding though that you know what your searching for and that makes it lot more easier. You can order differend flours etc. I never had NY pie so for me it would be impossible to even try to succeed :-[

yeah I'm pretty sure I'll have to make it myself but hey that's why I'm here  :)

I think having a memory of the kind of pizza I love is helpful, but then again I only have this "one ideal" in my mind and it can also be a burden! If you don't have that, then I think you are maybe more free to experiment in a broader way to find what for you is THE perfect pizza taste/texture etc wise? Even in NY people have their own preferences for things and argue about what pizzeria is the best etc :) - I think success is creating the kind of pizza *you* love best? (and learning as you go along) :chef:

I personally haven't even been to Italy to eat pizza (I sure am thinking about it). Who knows - after a "real" pizza napoletana I might even change my mind about what kind of pizza I want to strive to create  :-D (lol - I already see myself building my own woodburning pizzaoven in the back yard at our "mökki" (summer cottage) in a few years time...)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 11:48:13 AM by mitten »

Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2013, 12:39:58 PM »
pie made with recipe Scott suggested for Nikkilä - 4 day cold ferment:

Quote
Flour 100%
Water 60%
IDY 0.25%
Salt 1.75%
Oil 3%
Sugar 1%

This was taste-wise perhaps one of the best pizzas so far! It was also sticky and difficult to work with but I managed to stretch it out thinner than before. The bottom was crispy for sure, but it wasn't very strong - way more than the tip flopped over and the crust cracked a little when bent. It was definitely was much chewier once it cooled down and the rim wasn't as airy (although I did everything the same with handling etc). So flavor is better 4 days vs. 2, but texture not. I'm reading about over/underdevelopment of doughs more, and will experiment and make some adjustments. Accepting that will take lots of time to really get a good feel for this stuff and tons of experimentation. I'll report more once I try some different flours or get better results.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 12:41:56 PM by mitten »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2013, 01:05:11 PM »
That looks totally NY-style to me who has never seen the real deal exept in the photos. What is the dough weight and diameter for that pie ?
What cheese are you using ? I like the way you cut one BIG slice out of that pie :pizza:

Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2013, 01:30:23 PM »
That looks totally NY-style to me who has never seen the real deal exept in the photos. What is the dough weight and diameter for that pie ?
What cheese are you using ? I like the way you cut one BIG slice out of that pie :pizza:


Thanks Morgan, I've started cutting out a big "Ny style slice" everytime now - for the feel of the real deal  ;)

I didn't weigh the doughball :-[ (sorry I'll do this in the future) Ingredient weights were calculated for 2x12" doballs at 643g, so about 320g per ball? The pizza is about 11" (hard to make anything much bigger due to peel/oven size restrictions).

I used Allerum Svecia 14 mo. old cheese
http://www.lindahls.fi/tuotteet/skaanemejerier-juustot/allerum-svecia-28-450g.aspx
with a some slices of Mozz from this big 400g "log" of Castelli mozzarella I found today at S-market - it's a little dryer than the little-balls-in-liquid plastic baggies you can get


Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2013, 01:37:18 PM »
Thanks Morgan, I've started cutting out a big "Ny style slice" everytime now - for the feel of the real deal  ;)

I didn't weigh the doughball :-[ (sorry I'll do this in the future) Ingredient weights were calculated for 2x12" doballs at 643g, so about 320g per ball? The pizza is about 11" (hard to make anything much bigger due to peel/oven size restrictions).

I used Allerum Svecia 14 mo. old cheese
http://www.lindahls.fi/tuotteet/skaanemejerier-juustot/allerum-svecia-28-450g.aspx
with a some slices of Mozz from this big 400g "log" of Castelli mozzarella I found today at S-market - it's a little dryer than the little-balls-in-liquid plastic baggies you can get


Thats quit big, but i guess its all big in NY :-D I have used the same Castelli and i think it might be the best mozzarella you can find here.
If you get that wet mozzarella it would be good to squeeze some moisture out of it. You can also try that really good Pirkka bufala wet mozzarella, but
i like that dry better. As a product i think the bufala is the best, but on a pizza the dry log is working better for me.

http://www.pirkka.fi/tuotteet/62959-pirkka-mozzarella-di-bufala-campana-125-g

Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2013, 01:47:56 PM »
Is it? Maybe I'll test scaling down abit and calculate for an 11" pie, I do feel I end up having  alittle too much dough to work with for the 11" I can do.

I recently tried the Pirkka bufala, it is yes more delicious, but very wet - agree the castelli log works better on the pizza (and at 400g it's a good value).

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2013, 02:13:26 PM »
320 grams dough for a 12incher is not really to be considered "a lot". You do want to get it spread/opened as evenly as possible across the skin.
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 03:32:36 PM »
320 grams dough for a 12incher is not really to be considered "a lot". You do want to get it spread/opened as evenly as possible across the skin.

11" young padawan 11" :D Not sure about Ny-style, but i think 320gr is big dough for 11".

Quote
Is it? Maybe I'll test scaling down abit and calculate for an 11" pie, I do feel I end up having  alittle too much dough to work with for the 11" I can do.

That was just IMO! You know Ny-style much better than me not arguing on that. Fazer dough what i mentioned earlier is 150gr and that is shaped about 11-12" so compared to that its huge.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 03:38:20 PM by Morgan »

Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2013, 03:58:35 PM »
I guess Morgan once you mentioned it and I thought about it most the time now I feel I'm not getting to the point of thinness/stretching I want to/could get to before I've hit the "max diameter" my peel will allow... I think I'm making slightly thinner rims than I initially did (for me they are now starting to be at my ideal size though I know people here tend to favor much bigger ones). maybe I'll try an 11" doughball and see how it goes?

Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2013, 04:04:34 PM »
What kind baking stone are you running ?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2013, 06:20:54 PM »
11" young padawan 11" :D Not sure about Ny-style, but i think 320gr is big dough for 11".


Well exchuuuuse me Mr. Incorrecto!  :-D
I don't know if the pie had  a lot of shrink back or what...just saying that if you start out with 320 and intend it for 12in you should be a Golden Grasshopper.  :)



I didn't weigh the doughball :-[ (sorry I'll do this in the future) Ingredient weights were calculated for 2x12" doballs at 643g, so about 320g per ball? The pizza is about 11" (hard to make anything much bigger due to peel/oven size restrictions).


« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 06:23:09 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2013, 03:28:42 AM »
Well exchuuuuse me Mr. Incorrecto!  :-D
I don't know if the pie had  a lot of shrink back or what...just saying that if you start out with 320 and intend it for 12in you should be a Golden Grasshopper.  :)

Well i guess its just a cultural difference, you guys just have everything bigger 8)

Offline mitten

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2013, 04:39:16 AM »
Well exchuuuuse me Mr. Incorrecto!  :-D
I don't know if the pie had  a lot of shrink back or what...just saying that if you start out with 320 and intend it for 12in you should be a Golden Grasshopper.  :)


 :-D so wait... ~320g for an 11" tho?

and Morgan this is the stone I'm using: http://www.ibilimenaje.com/eng/catalogo/ver-producto/rectangular-pizza-stone/3977/

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Flour in Finland for Lehmann NY style dough attempts
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2013, 12:43:12 PM »
I'm just messing with you two. Even Morgans 200g 11incher looks great today(over on the other thread). It really just comes down to how much dough you put into the cornicione when first starting to form the dough round...different folks like it formed different ways. As for the TF in the rest of the skin/crust, I would say that both of you are right in the ballpark for traditional NY pie.
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