Author Topic: Santos mixer modification  (Read 928 times)

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Offline Joepalma

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Santos mixer modification
« on: March 31, 2013, 04:20:19 PM »
I've decided to delay purchasing a DLX until I fully understand the drawbacks of the Santos mixer. My bias s to go with a fork mixer given I'm mainly interested in making Neapolitan pizza.  The main con of the Santos, apparently, is the high rpm (84 RPM).  I saw in a post that Pietrosantos (?) managed to modify the motor speed to bring the RPMs down to the low 20s mimicking the speeds of classic commercial models. I have two questions:

How "bad" is the high rpm of the standard Santos mixer"

How/where can I go about securing a modified Santos mixer?


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 04:23:44 PM »
IMO, the choice of mixer is very low on the list of things important to making great Neapolitan pizza at home.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 06:00:25 PM »
I agree with Craig completely but have extended that mindset to all pizza that is going to have long fermentation.  Time trumps mechanical formation any day.  I use a drop bowl kitchen aid with a spiral hook, and now knead my dough for exactly one minute on the lowest setting after the dough has come together enough to actually be kneaded.  Time does the rest.
-Jeff

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 07:13:38 PM »
I've never had the slightest problem with the speed of the Santos.

Offline Joepalma

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 06:38:10 AM »
Bill,

That's good to hear.  How long have you owned it, and do you mind sharing where you purchased it?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 07:20:16 AM »
Bill,

That's good to hear.  How long have you owned it, and do you mind sharing where you purchased it?


I got it in 2005 from Instawares.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 08:26:17 AM »
I think where the speed of the Santos might give you problems is if you try to use it for very high HR dough (>70% or so).
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline scott r

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 10:12:15 AM »
For higher hydrations I actually prefer faster mixer speed and or longer mixes.  For example roman pizza uses a very high hydration dough that is typically mixed in ultra high speed spiral mixers for 20 minutes or more.  I agree with craig, though, and above 70% you are probably going to have better luck with a spiral mixer or just doing stretch and folds by hand.   

My issues with the santos came when trying do do 59-60% hydration doughs.   Some people may not realize this, but thats the hydration range at most pizzerias in naples and even many of the premiere pizzerias here in the US such as Keste, Amano, Don Antonio etc.    There are a few places doing higher hydrations.... Da Michelle is closer to 65% for instance (I forget the exact number now but it was eiether 64.5 or 65.5), but the norm for Naples is lower.     With 59-60 percent hydrations the santos tended to develop the gluten very fast and even when I compensated with techniques to offset this I found that the resulting doughs were not as good as what I could get out of other mixers.    Im not the only one that felt this way, and there were even forum members that came up with mods to slow down their santos (hence the pietrosantos) .    I could be wrong, but I think Bill tends to use hydrations more in the mid 60's and above, and at those hydrations the santos at its normal speed worked fine for me.   

The inventor of the pietrosantos told me that slowing down the mixer actually made a better dough at any hydration, but ultimately he still had the best results with hand mixing.   



« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 10:50:50 AM by scott r »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 10:35:29 AM »


I could be wrong, but I think Bill tends to use hydrations more in the mid 60's and above, and at those hydrations the santos at its normal speed worked fine for me.   




I've been starting @ ~63% (including the starter) and then using a spritzer to add a little water as needed after each step. I'm making a 2kg batch today that I'll try to video if time permits.


I make no claims about authenticity since I've never been interested in reproducing the pizzas I enjoyed in Naples;  I just keep trying to improve on my own style which does depart in several ways from what some here consider to be their ideal.

Offline scott r

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 10:53:23 AM »
There is no question in my mind that your pizza is as good as it gets bill.    I feel bad spreading negative reviews of the santos, but once I started talking to others that felt the same way I did, I felt I had to try to warn potential buyers since there are a number of other good mixers out there at less than half the price.   I know a few pizza makers making neapolitan style pizza who have sold their santos and moved on to other mixers that they prefer, and to me that says a lot.           
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 11:00:53 AM by scott r »


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 11:02:24 AM »
there are a number of other good mixers out there at less than half the price.     


I agree. Not sure what decision I would make today. IIRC correctly, mine cost $850 including shipping. I see it costs much more these days. Fortunately mine was a Fathers' Day present.

Offline scott r

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 11:12:30 AM »
That really is a great price.   I remember the week it almost doubled in price... I was so bummed because I had almost pulled the trigger on mine a few weeks prior, and ended up having to fork out the extra cash.   

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 11:23:55 AM »
If I were purchasing right now, knowing what I know, I would not spend $1500+ on a Santos. I'd knead manually and use that money to set-up temperature control chamber and wood and ingredients. I'm thinking lobster pizza!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 11:26:14 AM by Bill/SFNM »

Offline scott r

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 11:46:43 AM »
Im very lucky to live in new england with friends that are lobstermen!      Its definitely a good thing to put on pizza!!!

As mentioned earlier even the pietrosantos owner says he makes his best doughs by hand.      I agree that hand is the way to go for the most part, but having something to start the initial ingredients is something that im not sure I would want to go without anymore since it makes things so easy.    The nice thing about that is that there are good cheap alternatives that are great at that  (I think the bosch is best for initial combining unless your in the very high 60's and above).     Following that with some stretch and folds is definitely magical.     


Good luck everyone!   

Offline kiwipete

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Re: Santos mixer modification
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2013, 07:29:07 PM »
As mentioned earlier even the pietrosantos owner says he makes his best doughs by hand.      I agree that hand is the way to go for the most part, but having something to start the initial ingredients is something that im not sure I would want to go without anymore since it makes things so easy.    The nice thing about that is that there are good cheap alternatives that are great at that  (I think the bosch is best for initial combining unless your in the very high 60's and above).     Following that with some stretch and folds is definitely magical.     

I use a converted bread machine (it just mixes, no cycling, heating etc) to do my initial mixing, and may end going to do everything entirely by hand. The bread machine option is at least cheap enough.