Author Topic: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?  (Read 1051 times)

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Offline nachtwacht

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Hello,

I am curious if I have a problem, appreciate any input.

I made a dough with the following recipe:

Molino Grassi Typo 00 Italian pizza flour    3700gr
Water    60%
Salt     2.25%
Instant dry yeast    0.25%

This resulted in roughly 6kg of dough which I wanted to make 30 * 200gr. balls from. This was intended for a pizza party on Friday. Pizza's to be baked in my WFO, Neapolitan pizza's is the intention.

I wanted to do a bulk ferment in the refrigerator. I made the dough yesterday (Tuesday) and wanted to take it out of the fridge Friday morning (roughly a 3 day ferment), ball it, keep it somewhat cold (it is roughly 10 degrees Celsius at the moment) and hoped it would be ready to be used on Friday about 18:00

However, when I looked in the refrigerator today, my dough looked like the attached picture. When putting it in the fridge, the dough filled up the box less than half so the dough has risen more than 2 times allready. I punched it back somewhat and put it back in the box. It fills it up about half again...

The short question at this moment is, can I still use this dough on Friday ?


As for what went wrong and my own thoughts about it, I previously made this dough but balled it immediately. That worked OK so that is why I tried this again. However, I have put it all in the box and I now think that it was far from cold. As a minimum I should use cold water from the fridge next time but I now also realize that cooling down a 6kg dough ball will take a long time. I did not measure the temp when I put it in the fridge (another thing that is smart to do next time) but after punching it down it was 11C. I checked the pork meat that is also in there, that was 5C so the dough, after about 16 hours in the fridge, still had not cooled down completely.

Any input appreciated, also if you think I am using the wrong recipe. This was one of the first I bumped in to.

Thanks in advance !


----- small adition to original message ----

Normaly I use a faster dough. I mix, let it rise, ball, 2nd rise and bake. Usualy works fine but this time I desided to use the cold ferment because I have no time  shortly prior to the party to do all that work. I anyone has other ideas (same day dough etc) feel free to let me know.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 12:34:22 PM by nachtwacht »


Offline JD

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2013, 12:52:03 PM »
At first I thought that picture was a joke, and I laughed and laughed... Then I realized it wasn't a joke!

Your problem is most likely from bulk fermenting such a large dough. The easiest answer would be to bulk ferment in 3 or 4 smaller balls to reduce the effects of bulk ferment. I'm sure your dough will be fine, but it will probably happen again. Next time you should reduce your yeast if you plan to bulk that size dough. How much? I don't know, sorry.
Josh

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 12:57:53 PM »
nachtwacht , I am confused by the pics? ???  The 2nd pic looks good, is the 1st pic one of the dough completely escaping the bowl and running down the sides?
 
If you have used this recipe before with success, I would suggest that you may have mis measured the yeast. The dough temp may have been way too hot and as you suggested not cooled fast, but even so with 0.25%, I think you would have been alright.
 
If in fact the 1st pic is of the dough, I would be worried that it will totally blow before friday.
 
Is it posible to open the dough and prebake, then cool and finish baking at the party?
 
Sorry I can't be of more help, I make 1-2 pies at a time.
 
Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 01:37:08 PM »
nachtwacht , I am confused by the pics? ???  The 2nd pic looks good, is the 1st pic one of the dough completely escaping the bowl and running down the sides?

Yes, exactly.

The first pic is the dough escaping the bowl, the second pic is how it looked after I punched it down after the "escape".

I did also think about getting my weight wrong and that I used too much yeast. However, since I have a small mixer, I mixed it all split into 3 batches. I made 3 batches of 1230 grams of flour each. That was 3.1 grams of yeast.... Even if I got it wrong somewhere, I can not imagine getting it wrong in every batch...

Prebaking is not really an option... I rather start over again and use a 2 day ferment instead.... (or anything someone else can recommend)

thanks for the reply.

Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2013, 02:00:18 PM »
At first I thought that picture was a joke, and I laughed and laughed... Then I realized it wasn't a joke!

Your problem is most likely from bulk fermenting such a large dough. The easiest answer would be to bulk ferment in 3 or 4 smaller balls to reduce the effects of bulk ferment. I'm sure your dough will be fine, but it will probably happen again. Next time you should reduce your yeast if you plan to bulk that size dough. How much? I don't know, sorry.

It was not a joke but when thinking about posting here with my question and thinking about the topic, things like "monster created" "runner in the fridge" "Let me out of here !!!" all crossed my mind and I definitely could laugh about it :)

For now I will used your idea and split the ball into 3 smaller balls. That will hopefully help it cooling down... I also measured again, it is now 10C. That means it  only fell in temperature by little less than 2 degrees.... The picture below is what the dough is looking like now. This is 7 hours after picture 2, the punched down dough. Rabbits are not even that fast... It's definitely a monster :)

Thanks for the help !


Offline Jackitup

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2013, 03:00:36 PM »
Probably how the creator of "The Blob" came up with his movie idea!! :-D

Save A Cow, Eat A Vegan....Totally Organic And Hormone Free!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 08:08:04 PM »
 :-D :-D :-D

I think we have all experienced the dough "blob" some time in our pizza careers,

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 09:21:16 PM »
It ought to have good flavor on Friday if nothing else.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2013, 01:45:12 PM »
Thanks all for the help!

Had the pizza party yesterday and it worked out reasonably well. Can't say it was perfect due to several reasons. This was the first time I am using this and I fired up my oven too hot (first pizzas cooking in under a minute), my dough was a little cold (I think around 15C) which made it feel a little too elastic. I did all the pizza making and instructed someone that never cooks on the pizza handling in the oven. We made 32 pies. First 4 were testers which we ended up throwing away. I think of the other 28 we overcooked (slightly burned) 4 or 5 and the picture I ended up making is from a pizza that was slightly undercooked.

But I think the dough was OK. The "blobbing" did not seem to have a negative effect.

With all the mentioned "problems" I think it worked out very well and the people that attended were very enthusiastic. Since they were all friends they probably lied :)

Again thanks !

 

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2013, 03:59:13 PM »
Nice Job!

jon
Save A Cow, Eat A Vegan....Totally Organic And Hormone Free!!


Offline JD

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2013, 06:03:19 PM »
Thanks all for the help!

Had the pizza party yesterday and it worked out reasonably well. Can't say it was perfect due to several reasons. This was the first time I am using this and I fired up my oven too hot (first pizzas cooking in under a minute), my dough was a little cold (I think around 15C) which made it feel a little too elastic. I did all the pizza making and instructed someone that never cooks on the pizza handling in the oven. We made 32 pies. First 4 were testers which we ended up throwing away. I think of the other 28 we overcooked (slightly burned) 4 or 5 and the picture I ended up making is from a pizza that was slightly undercooked.

But I think the dough was OK. The "blobbing" did not seem to have a negative effect.

With all the mentioned "problems" I think it worked out very well and the people that attended were very enthusiastic. Since they were all friends they probably lied :)

Again thanks !

Glad it worked out for you, that pizza in the pizza looks pretty good from here. I like the way the pizza bends on the upskirt shot, looks nice and tender.

The elasticity may have been due to the reball after the blob, then  manipulating again into smaller bulk doughs, and one more time for your final balling of all the doughs. That's a lot of reballing, especially after a fairly long cold ferment.

What WFO do you have?
Josh

Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2013, 06:30:38 PM »
Thanks both.

In the last few weeks I have build my own WFO. The isolation only went on this week after 2 weeks of curing it so this was the real big test. Another test in the next 24 hours. We have another party for about 30 people. This time my dough has only been kneeded once and is now bulk fermenting in smaller boxes which works a lot better ! No blobs this time :) Will update with those results later.

Offline JD

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2013, 06:37:45 PM »
You have some lucky friends.

Let's see that oven
Josh

Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2013, 01:27:53 PM »
The oven is not really finished yet but here are some pictures:

First picture is the build "so far". Missing in this picture is the entry and flu but this is to show you how it was build.

Second picture is how it functioned last Friday and sunday. I wrapped it in superwool (3 inch) and made a temporary entry. I will, in time, replace that with a nicely build entry and will use stucco over the superwool.

Picture 3 4 and 5 are pies from yesterdays party. We did 20 pies, same recipe for the dough, but this time I used Caputo Rosso. It worked wonderfull. These pies were a little heavy on the topping but most of the people made the pies themself so thats just what happens. They held up perfectly though.

Again thanks for all the help !


Offline mkevenson

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Re: Allready doubled during cold ferment, can I still use this dough ?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2013, 01:46:14 PM »
Nice bake on the pies! Great looking oven, (project) ;D . Many happy returns.


Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles