Author Topic: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer  (Read 5207 times)

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Offline JD

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Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« on: April 01, 2013, 11:15:30 AM »
I watched an episode of Lidia's Italy over the weekend about making pizza (episode 24), and although the recipe was more of an emergency dough, I was very intrigued by her use of the Kitchen Aid.

She used a regular C hook at a very high speed. That dough was nearly flying out of the bowl, but never did. This method seemed to develop the gluten really well, which was proven when she stretcted the skin.

I gave it a shot this weekend making a same-day dough for a calzone, and i'll be darned if it didnt work pretty well. Anyone have a link to the episode? This may be a better alternative to people like me whose KA cannot take a spiral hook.





Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 12:48:54 PM »
I watched an episode of Lidia's Italy over the weekend about making pizza (episode 24), and although the recipe was more of an emergency dough, I was very intrigued by her use of the Kitchen Aid.

She used a regular C hook at a very high speed. That dough was nearly flying out of the bowl, but never did. This method seemed to develop the gluten really well, which was proven when she stretcted the skin.

I gave it a shot this weekend making a same-day dough for a calzone, and i'll be darned if it didnt work pretty well. Anyone have a link to the episode? This may be a better alternative to people like me whose KA cannot take a spiral hook.
JD,
Have you seen this?
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5347.0.html
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 01:33:51 PM »
I have, and unfortunately I too have a KSM150. Doesn't seem to be any hope for me & this mixer.


Offline charbo

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 06:53:52 PM »
Can anyone else confirm the kneading ability of a C-hook on high speed?

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 07:50:00 PM »
I watched an episode of Lidia's Italy over the weekend about making pizza (episode 24), was more of an






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Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2013, 08:42:11 PM »
Well I tried this method again, and it worked great. I mixed for 1 minute at speed 6 or 7, let it rest for 10 minutes, and did another minute at 6 or 7. Let it rest 10 minutes, balled, done. Very quick, very easy. Dough was very soft & malleable after that last rest, and the ball was very smooth, no tears.

Dough stretched well & had good strength. Good pizza!

 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2013, 08:45:37 PM »
Believe me JD, that was a fluke cause Lydia don't know noth'in bout no pizza! :chef:
But I think I am secretely in love with that "ol gal.  ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2013, 10:26:55 PM »
It may be a fluke... but I'm floundering for a reason why I shouldn't keep doing it this way!


I'll be here a while, thanks.


Believe me JD, that was a fluke cause Lydia don't know noth'in bout no pizza! :chef:
But I think I am secretely in love with that "ol gal.  ;)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 10:37:37 PM »
It may be a fluke... but I'm floundering for a reason why I shouldn't keep doing it this way!


I'll be here a while, thanks.
Fluke meaning someone instructed her, never the less...
your pie looks great and you should stick with success. If it ain't broke....
I assume you are doing single ball batch at that speed. I would stay close to the mixer in case it jams cause I have seen those mixers fry very quickly if you get a snag. Don't know what your formula was but maybe you should try fermenting one a day or two. Very nice looking pizza you made there. :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 11:04:50 PM »
I would stay close to the mixer in case it jams cause I have seen those mixers fry very quickly if you get a snag.

The one downfall to this method is the (presumably) higher wear on the machine. You are correct, I've only done this on single ball batches (~725g) and probably won't do it with any more than 1.

I appreciate the compliment. Although I'm happy with my recent pie's, I still have plenty to learn.











Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2013, 11:24:38 PM »
Why are you concerned, if it works the way you like then keep doing it. Many people use a food processor to mix their dough. and a food processor is a hell of a lot faster than a KA on speed 7. Just be careful not to overmix, and if you're concerned about frying your mixer, just do smaller batches.
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Offline DenaliPete

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2013, 11:25:13 PM »
Before I bought an Electrolux DLX I made my dough in a lower end KA with the dough hook.

I was able to make good dough in small batches.

I still feel like I'm on a learning curve with my electrolux.  I have trouble determining when I need to stop adding flour sometimes, and also with guessing whether or not I've mixed long enough.

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 09:52:55 PM »
Did it again today, but with a same-day bread. I'm not a bread maker, but it turned out pretty well.

Lots of gluten, not a lot of effort.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2013, 10:05:09 PM »
Did it again today, but with a same-day bread. I'm not a bread maker, but it turned out pretty well.

Lots of gluten, not a lot of effort.
Very nice, would make good sammich bread/Ciabatta.  :chef:
Don't let my GF see that!  ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 08:18:36 AM »
Thanks Mr. Bob. Pretty sure it was over-risen, but still turned out well.

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 10:12:52 AM »
As an update to this thread, I've tried this method on multiple batches and my poor little KA was struggling. I'd probably limit this method to 800-900 grams final doughball weight.

One thing I've started to do as well is high speed using 75% of the flour. When using the high speed, it becomes very obvious when gluten is forming because the flour starts to sling off the c-hook like cotton candy (very stringy/spiderweb like).

 

Offline pizzaboyfan

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 11:19:25 AM »
Have you tried making the same pie, but doing it by hand , as a comparison ?
Mix by hand, let rest 10 minutes, mix a bit more, rest 10 minutes...or just mix and then rest 20 minutes ?

You might surprise yourself with the results.
I'm not a luddite by any means, but I do not own, or ever covet a mixer for pizza dough.

Perry


Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2013, 11:26:53 AM »
Perry,

To be honest, I have not. But you're right I should give it a try. When you say "mix", do you mean that literally or do you knead?

What hydration do you personally use when hand mixing?

Offline pizzaboyfan

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2013, 11:37:42 AM »
My process is to just mix the ingredients with a wooden spoon,until it forms a rough loaf and it holds it shape..sort of.
I cover with a damp towel, and walk away for 20 or 30 minutes.
I do some stretch and folds, and I'm done.
I believe that time and resting allows the saturation we are seeking.

I do a neapolitan dough, and I've run from 60 to 68 % hydration, but generally 64-65 %.
Perry

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2013, 12:10:36 PM »
Ok, on my next bake I'll do a side by side and compare. Thanks for the suggestion.

Offline dhorst

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2013, 12:23:08 PM »
Have you guys ever used a danish dough hook?  I've been meaning to pick one up for quite some time.  From what some people have said, it's not only for dough but wonderful for creaming butter.  My KA is always taking a beating for large batches of dough, but thinking forward, in a few years, there won't be kids in the house, so, maybe small batches by hand will be the way to go.

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 09:56:08 AM »
My process is to just mix the ingredients with a wooden spoon,until it forms a rough loaf and it holds it shape..sort of.
I cover with a damp towel, and walk away for 20 or 30 minutes.
I do some stretch and folds, and I'm done.
I believe that time and resting allows the saturation we are seeking.

I do a neapolitan dough, and I've run from 60 to 68 % hydration, but generally 64-65 %.
Perry

Hi Perry.

I tried your method a few days ago and while I'm sure it's due to inexperience in hand mixing, that dough fought me to the end. I used ~62% hydration using KABF, + 2 day cold ferment, and it didn't have the development that my KA mixed dough usually gets. How many S&F's do you do?

I worked that dough for 20 minutes to shape it into a halfway decent skin (with rest periods). But it never came out right. Almost had a calzone on my hands.

Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 02:17:07 PM »
I made some dough last night and I figured I would add pictures to better explain my process. I used to hate my C-hook only KA mixer... so envious of others with a spiral mixer. Now that I've been doing this method for a while, I have no reason to upgrade (aside from doing large batches).

So for anyone interested, here it goes:

1: Slowly incorporate 75% of the flour just until mixed (will be lumpy)
2: First high speed mix @ speed 6 for 30 seconds. Since only 75% of the flour is used, it will not be kneading one mass of dough. Instead you will start to see webbing of dough being slung against the side of the bowl like cotton candy. This is the gluten developing.
3: Rest for 10 minutes (it will still look lumpy after initial mix)
4: Add remaining 25% of flour, slowly incorporate until no dry flour visible, then hit the throttle again (speed 6 for 30 seconds).
You'll notice this time you are mixing one mass of dough. Also, it will slap the dough around the bowl so quickly that eventually the bowl is clean, that is, you will have little to no loss of flour in your final dough ball.
5: Second 10 minute rest. The picture still looks a little lumpy, but the next step takes care of that
6: I left the hook down in the dough for the rest for no real reason, but it should really be up during the final rest. You can see when I went to pull the hook out, the dough stretched into a nice smooth skin. Kneading is complete
7: Ball after second rest. When you go to ball it will feel and look very smooth with no tears. All done!


I do this from memory now, it's really simple after you do it once. I hope this helps somebody.

Offline norma427

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2013, 08:42:13 PM »
Josh,

I just looked how you mixed your dough with your hook for your Kitchen Aid mixer.  I only have a spiral hook and a flat beater for my Kitchen Aid.  I wonder how my spiral hook would work compared to the C hook you use.  Do you know if my spiral hook would work the same as your C hook?

Norma   
 
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Offline JD

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Re: Lidia's Italy & use of KA mixer
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2013, 08:52:28 PM »
Norma,

Your spiral hook should do better than my C hook, and you don't need to do high speeds. The reason I eventually came up with this technique is because my KA does not accept the spiral hook.

No need to try this method!


 

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