Author Topic: My first NY style  (Read 9002 times)

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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2013, 09:26:16 PM »
Well, I live in Tulsa OK. We do have a lot of places that claim to be NY style, but I am  skeptical. We do have a few great pizza joints, but I was wondering if this was just a use of a style to get customers in, or if they were true to the style. I have been to several joints claiming to be NY style, but the pies are all different. They were all tasty, but I wonder if  they were truly NY style.


Offline Skee

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2013, 01:00:14 AM »
Well, I live in Tulsa OK. We do have a lot of places that claim to be NY style, but I am  skeptical.
Was just in Tulsa last week for six days and managed to try two of your local pizza joints - Andolino's (spelling?) and Hideaway.  Both were good, but neither was NY style - crust was too thick on the bottom and too breadstick-ish on the rim. 

Offline pythonic

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2013, 01:31:26 AM »
It looks like you need to stretch it out further to minimize the thickness.
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2013, 09:14:13 AM »
Thanks guys for the info. Andolini's is about the best in T town. I think of them as more Italian style as than NY style. Hideaway has been around for years, I think they are closer to American style.  One place that says it's NY style is Mario's at 51st and Harvard. They have been here for years and import their cheesecake from NY city, I don't think that qualifies for the pie. The pies are thin but not very crispy on the outside. We have several places that lay claim to NY style. I guess to be sure, is to take a trip to the Big Apple and see for myself.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2013, 01:03:37 PM »
I just think your toppings; along with the puffy dough give an American look. The big round sausage balls, thick cut canned shrooms and the browned cheese look like something Papa Johns wishes they could sell. I would thoroughly enjoy that pizza you made Nick....but you asked.  :)
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2013, 03:17:05 PM »
No canned shrooms, or meat balls on this one, just cheese. This is a 12" pie.  Same as before except for a 3 day rest in the fridge, and I upped  the hydration to 63%. I did not knead the dough as long as the last pies, 5 minutes. I overcooked this one by 15 seconds, It was getting lightly brown and I thought I would wait another 15 seconds then check again. I was surprised how dark it got in the short amount of time. It tasted OK, no burnt flavor. This pie is thinner, but is it too thin? The last pic is fuzzy, but gives a good idea of the thickness of the pie. The crust was very crispy, and not very chewy. It had a nice lite bite. Also the cornicoine is much smaller than the past pies. I would have liked it a little bigger, it'll be an easy adjustment on my next pie. So is this one a little closer to NY style?

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2013, 06:31:25 PM »
Another try. I did a 3 day rise in the fridge. I upped the hydration to 65%. I topped with fresh shrooms, and Lovera Italian sausage from Krebs OK. Krebs is an Italian community in southern Oklahoma. I used a blend of 4 italian cheeses, and my own red sauce, which included ovo, fresh ground pepper, garlic powder, basil, and oregano. The crust was light, crispy and chewy. The rim was crispy and chewy. The skin was easy to form. I made the cornicione a little bigger than my last pie. I would have liked it a little puffier. I only used 1/4 teaspoon of yeast , maybe I should have used more. But I suspect it may be the way I cooked the pie. I was afraid the skin might stick to the peel since it was a high hydration dough, So, I cheated and cooked the pie for three minutes on parchment paper on the stone. I slid the paper out from under the skin after 3 minutes and let it finish on the stone. I don't know if that would effect the oven spring on the dough or not. Any thoughts on that?  All in all it was a tasty pie. Plus I did not burn it this time.
 
 This is for a 14 inch
  Flour 100% 253.73 grams
  Water 65% 164.92 grams
  IDY    1%   .84 tsp
  Salt    1%   .45tsp
  Olive oil 2%  1.13tsp
  Sugar   2%     1.27 tsp
  Vital Wheat Gluten 1% .96 tsp
  Total 172%  436.41grams
 

Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2013, 07:48:05 PM »
Nick,

Your pizza looks fine. Also, there is nothing wrong with using parchment paper the way that you used it. I'd rather be cautious and use parchment paper with a high hydration dough rather than risk losing the entire pizza because it sticks to the peel and loads improperly and maybe becomes misshapen or lands in the wrong place or scatters its topping all over the place. In my case, I think of the parchment paper option when the hydration gets above about 63%. I use the same hydration threshhold for a pizza screen since I don't want the wet dough seeping into the screen openings.

When I use parchment paper, I trim it to about the size of the pizza so that it doesn't catch fire in my oven. I yank the piece of parchment paper from under the pizza once the pizza sets up and is firm. To be on the safe side, I use my metal peel to lift the pizza up a bit so that I can easily remove the parchment paper. I can't say that I noticed any loss of oven spring as a result of using parchment paper. However, at a hydration of 65%, in my oven with a pizza stone that hydration value can impede the oven spring. It can be like trying to lift a sponge loaded with water. To overcome that problem, you would need a high oven temperature, higher than what you might be able to achieve in a standard unmodified home oven.

You indicated that you used only 1/4 teaspoon IDY yet your dough formulation says close to 7/8 teaspoon. Can you clarify which amount you used?

On an unrelated matter, unless you are on a sodium-restricted diet or are otherwise trying to limit your salt intake, you might want to increase the amount of salt to about 1.75-2%. That is much more typical of a NY style.

Peter

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2013, 08:05:29 PM »
Thanks for the info Pete. For the yeast I was using 1/4 tsp because on your NY style thread you had mentioned that 1/4 tsp to 1 1/2 tsp would work OK. Since it was a three day rise, I thought It would be safer to go with less IDY. I'll up the amount in my next try. I wanted to see how a 65% skin would feel and bake. I think for my next try I will go back to 62% or 63% to see if I get a better oven spring. My pies seemed to rise better with the lower hydration. I'l adjust the salt next time. I cut the parchment paper pretty close to the skin size. My oven only goes to 550 degrees, and I have had no problem with the paper catching fire. I wait three minutes then I lift the edge of the pie and yank the paper out. I liked the way the pie turned out and tasted, the three day rise really helps the flavor of the dough. I think I'm getting pretty close the way I want my pies to be. I think what you said about the hydration, may be just what I am looking for in oven rise. As you can tell, I like to experiment till I get it right, Thanks for the help and encouragement.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 08:08:51 PM by nick57 »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2013, 08:15:55 PM »
Nick,

Having seen your pizzas to date, and also your cracker style pizzas, I am not worried about you. You are a natural with good instincts and fully capable of figuring things out. Experimenting is the best way to see for yourself how things work and affect your results. Just keep the changes to a minimum for each experiment. Otherwise you will end up dazed and confused :-D.

Peter


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2013, 08:37:06 PM »
Nice micro blisters and smaller "meat balls" Nick.  ;D

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2013, 10:21:37 PM »
I  spend a lot of time on this forum checking out all different styles of pizza. One thing I have learned, there is a lot of science going one here. I think the cracker style is the hardest to learn, I spent 2 years with the insight of Pete and just as important others to get a crust that I love. I am now onto NY style. With Pete's help I think I am getting very close to the NY style. Pizza making is something people fall in love with, the excitement is seeing your friends reactions when they have a bite. I did use more red sauce on this pie, and less cheese and fewer toppings. I wanted the sauce to add more to the flavor to the pie. So , thanks to everyone who has helped me in my quest for pie perfection. On to the next  pie and beyond!!!

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2013, 11:09:02 PM »
You are very astute in your approach to pizza making Nick...this forum benefits from all your contributions and I feel fortunate that you came along and found yourself deciding to hang out here man. Thanks.  :chef:

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2013, 11:40:15 PM »
Thanks Bob! All the people here have one quest, the best pie we can make. What fun! Who could ask for anything more? Well , maybe the girlfriend or wife, but you  can always ply them with a wonderful slice of heaven.

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 07:05:43 PM »
  Well, after going for the Holy Grail of high hydration, Pete reminded me that I might be asking too much of my home oven. He was right, not enough heat  for 65% hydration. My crust kept getting worse. I came back to earth, and after reading a lot of NY style threads, I went back to a 60% hydration which seems to be most the most popular with home oven use, and worked pretty good for me. I topped this pie with 4 cheese's, grilled chicken, bacon, maters, and onions. Instead of a red sauce I used a pesto sauce. It was a very good pie, the crust was crispy and light, and the toppings were a nice change of pace. The Cornicione was light, crispy, and tender. I'm going to stick with this hydration for a while, and see if I can keep getting the same results before I do any minor tweaking.
 The dough was the same as the last. I did up the yeast to 1/2 tsp, and the salt to 1.74% per Pete's suggestion. The finished dough ball temp was 79 degrees. It sat in the fridge for 3 days, I had a temp probe next to the dough and the temp stayed around 36 degrees. I let the dough sit on the counter for 2 hours before I formed the skin. I used parchment paper again, and it did not seem to effect the oven spring. It cooked for about 7 minutes, the last minute I used the broiler. The dough was easy to form, and I think the three day rise improved the flavor, and browning.

  I have been using a tsp of VWG in the last few versions. I am using KABF. I'm wondering if this is helping or am I am wasting my time and money doing this.

 The last two pics are of my NY style bread. Just for fun I used the same recipe I made this pie with . I did up the yeast for the quick rise, and butter instead of oil. It was one of my better loafs, I could tell the high hydration helped the texture of the bread. It was really great the next day when I put it in the toaster.

My next pie will be more in the line of Ny style, Pepperoni. Thanks Pete for all your insight, I think I am back on the right track again.
 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 07:07:33 PM by nick57 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 07:29:14 PM »
Wonderful results Nick...very nice all around.  :chef:
How long did you rise the bread for; thanks!

Bob
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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2013, 07:44:10 PM »
Nick,

All of the experimenting you are doing is a good thing because you will better remember what you do as opposed to what you might read. The value of reading is that it forces you to think, and it gives you ideas on things to try next. It is an iterative process that eventually should lead you to the best solutions for your particular situation.

On the matter of the use of VWG, if you are using roughly the same amount of KABF as you have been using pretty much all along, and if the VWG is the Bob's Red Mill brand, I calculate that the effect of using 1% VWG is to increase the protein content of the KABF to about 13.3%. It will be around 13.22% for a brand of VWG with a slightly lower protein content. But those are both good numbers for the NY style. As to whether to continue to use VWG, all I can say is that some people love it and some absolutely detest it. So, my practice is to tell people is try it and make up their own minds.

Peter

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2013, 07:50:31 PM »
I put the bread dough in a covered bowl for an hour in a warm oven. I then shaped the dough into a log put it in the pan and let it rise till it was about an inch higher than the top of the bread pan, about another hour. I cooked it at 400 degrees for 30 minutes, then removed the loaf from the pan and set it on the pizza stone. I used a thermometer and when the loaf got to 205 degrees, about another 10 minutes. I then removed it to a cooling rack for an hour before slicing. I like the results that I get by removing the loaf from the pan for the last 10 minutes or so. I think I like this recipe more than my go to recipe for a loaf bread.

 I used 2 tsps of IDY, and the same amount of salt and oil/butter and VWG as in the pizza. I figured the 60% hydration may give the bread some nice structure. I liked the open and airy crumb. I under knead my dough for pizza, but mixed this till it just passed the window pane test.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2013, 07:58:02 PM »
I put the bread dough in a covered bowl for an hour in a warm oven. I then shaped the dough into a log put it in the pan and let it rise till it was about an inch higher than the top of the bread pan, about another hour. I cooked it at 400 degrees for 30 minutes, then removed the loaf from the pan and set it on the pizza stone. I used a thermometer and when the loaf got to 205 degrees, about another 10 minutes. I then removed it to a cooling rack for an hour before slicing. I like the results that I get by removing the loaf from the pan for the last 10 minutes or so. I think I like this recipe more than my go to recipe for a loaf bread.

 I used 2 tsps of IDY, and the same amount of salt and oil/butter and VWG as in the pizza. I figured the 60% hydration may give the bread some nice structure. I liked the open and airy crumb. I under knead my dough for pizza, but mixed this till it just passed the window pane test.
Thank you for your great thorough instructions nick, you are doing interesting work here. What would you recommend if one desired a more closed/tighter crumb and an ever so slight sweet taste to this bread. I'm going to make this right away. Thanks!  :chef:

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2013, 08:00:04 PM »
Thanks for the info on the VWG. I seem to like it, and I have plenty, so I might as well use it. I am going to stick with this formulation for a while. Once I get several consistent results, then I may fool around with a poolish, or a starter. But for the time being don't fix it if it ain't broken. It's kind of a wonderful feeling that I can make something better than I can purchase. Besides, it's always fun to put a smile on my friends faces when they have a taste. Thanks Peter! I'll post some pics or my pepperoni pie.


 

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