Author Topic: My first NY style  (Read 8041 times)

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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2013, 08:18:12 PM »
I would use a little more sugar, or maybe honey. For a more a dense crumb, I would use less H20. Maybe try 50%. A lot of recipes use 1 cup of water to 2 1/2 to 3 cups of flour. I  like my bread a little more moist.
I used a standard loaf pan. This is what I used to make this loaf. The bread was even better on day two. As for in the toaster, it was wonderful. I  Did up the oil butter, sugar, salt and VGW. I did this because I was using more flour and water than in the pizza.

400 grams flour
240 grams water
2     tsp IDY
1 1/4     tsp salt
1 1/4     tsp sugar
1           tbls butter
1 1/4     tsp VWG
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 08:33:04 PM by nick57 »


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2013, 09:17:50 PM »
I would use a little more sugar, or maybe honey. For a more a dense crumb, I would use less H20. Maybe try 50%. A lot of recipes use 1 cup of water to 2 1/2 to 3 cups of flour. I  like my bread a little more moist.
I used a standard loaf pan. This is what I used to make this loaf. The bread was even better on day two. As for in the toaster, it was wonderful. I  Did up the oil butter, sugar, salt and VGW. I did this because I was using more flour and water than in the pizza.

400 grams flour
240 grams water
2     tsp IDY
1 1/4     tsp salt
1 1/4     tsp sugar
1           tbls butter
1 1/4     tsp VWG
Perfect...thanks!  8)
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2013, 11:19:51 PM »
Let me know how the loaf turns out. If ya have any problems let me know. I'll be baking another loaf later this week and see if I get the same results.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2013, 11:38:02 PM »
Let me know how the loaf turns out. If ya have any problems let me know. I'll be baking another loaf later this week and see if I get the same results.
So very nice man..I appreciate that Nick.  :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2013, 10:33:31 PM »
I have several friends that want to make my pizza recipe. So I tried to give them the best advice on making the pies the way I do. The ingredient amounts may be off a little, but I thought making it easy for their first try was the way to go. After they get a feel for the process I could go ahead and help them tweak the recipe to their likings. Any thoughts you can give me on my post would be appreciated. I hope to help them in their quest, but I want to make it easy and not so hard that they give up.


 NY style pizza crust 14"

Flour        260 grams    9 oz King Arthur Bread Flour  Reasors has it.
Water      156 grams    5.4 oz
IDY          2.6 grams     1 teaspoon for a 1 day rest in fridge.  1/2 teaspoon for a 3 day rise (recommended.)
Salt          4.55 grams  1 1/4 teaspoon
Olive Oil  5 grams       1 1/4 teaspoon
Sugar      5 grams       1 1/4 teaspoon
VWG        2.6 grams   1 teaspoon   Vital Wheat Gluten helps make the flour stronger This is optional... Reasors has it.


These amounts are critical and must be weighed out, except for the items that have a teaspoon measurement. I use a digital scale I got from Bed Bath and Beyond. The brand name was The Biggest Looser... from the TV show. It cost $19.00. If ya got the dough, I mean money, go for one that reads 10 ths of grams. I use grams for measuring, it is more accurate than ounces. If you use volume measuring, you could end up with Papa Johns dough or Ci Ci style. Flour weight changes with humidity.  1 cup of water does not weigh 8 oz, it weighs 8.3 oz or so, 1 cup of flour can weigh as little 4.4 oz, which the combination of flour and water can really throw off your dough hydration levels. Not too much of a problem making bread, but can ruin a pizza dough.

You have to remember we are  trying to make a NY style crust at home. I lost sight of this and went off the range, and my pies got worse. This is difficult because home ovens usually only  go to 500 to 550 degrees. Most NY pizza places cook theirs between 600 to 900 degrees. This causes great oven spring or rise in the oven. Some NY styles only use flour, water, salt and yeast. To get good crust color, flavor, and texture in the home oven, this formula uses some oil and sugar and a high hydration dough. The hydration for this dough is 60%. I have gone up to 65%, but that does not work well in the home oven. Lower hydrations end up with a more bread like and dense crust, which by definition is not pizza dough.

Follow these steps in order to make the dough ball.

1  Fill the KA mixer bowl with the stated amount of very warm water 120 to 130 degrees. Add the salt and sugar to the water and whisk till dissolved.
2  Run the flour through a flour sifter, or a fine mesh strainer. Add the yeast and (VWG if using) and mix thoroughly.
3 Add the flour to the KA mixer bowl. Using the paddle attachment on speed 2, mix till all the dry flour is gone, about 2 minutes or less. Stop mixing.
4 Add the oil to the dough.  Using the paddle attachment, stir the oil and dough for about a minute. Switch out the paddle for the dough hook. Knead the dough on speed 2 for 5 minutes.  Remove the dough to the counter.
5 Form the dough into a tight smooth ball. Oil the bottom and sides of a flat bottomed container that has a tight fitting lid. I use an old 1 gallon ice cream bucket, and spray it with a light coating of Pam spray. Coat the dough ball with oil, place in the container and place the lid on it. Put in the fridge for 24 hours. For a better tasting crust with good color and flavor, leave in the fridge for 3 days. (recommended). For a couple of practice skins you could do a 24 hour rise, then use the dough to practice stretching the skins. I did this and it helped me when I was ready to go for broke,

Rise and shaping the dough.

Remove the dough ball from the fridge 2 hours before cooking. Dust the counter lightly with flour and place the dough on it. Dust the top of the dough lightly with flour and cover with a light towel, I use plastic wrap instead. Make sure the dough has room to rise a little during the 2 hour counter rest. I hand  shape the dough. I make a rim on the outside of the skin, and press down the dough with my fingers and then flip it upside down and stretch by sliding the dough with one hand and holding it with the other. I then pick up the dough with both hands and then using my knuckles I stretch the dough to the desired size. I then place the skin on parchment paper that is on the pizza peel. It won't effect the oven spring of the crust and you're are less likely to dump your pie or toppings on the bottom of the oven. When you get more confident at using the peel, forgo the parchment paper. Here is a link to hand making the skin from a world champion pie maker. I don't slap it like she does, I like to be more gentle and hand stretch. There are a lot of Youtube videos on knuckle stretching.
How To Hand Slap Pizza Crust
  If you are afraid of hand stretching, I can give you a dough recipe that is formulated to make it easy to practice stretching the skin. It makes a skin more in the style of Mazzio's. With hand stretching take your time, if the dough does not want to stretch easily, stop and let it rest for a couple of minutes, then try again. If you made the dough correctly you should not have any problem getting to the size you want

 Cooking the pie

Now that you are ready to launch the pie into the oven, a few reminders.  Make sure you have the oven as high temp you can get. Let the stone heat up for at least an hour. The last two pies, I went an hour and a half for the warmup, which seemed to make a more brown crust. Place the skin on the stone, after 3 minutes lift the edge of the pie and slide out the parchment paper. Cook the pie till you like the color of the crust, 3 to 4 minutes. Remove the pie to a cooling rack for about 5 minutes. Slice and enjoy.

For a gas oven.

I have and electric oven. For the last minute of cooking I use the broiler to increase the color of the crust. Since your broiler is in the bottom of the stove, I would recommend moving the stone to an upper level of the stove. The radiant heat from the top will help in cooking the top at the same time as the bottom.

If you have any questions let me know. This is pretty exact, but I rounded some numbers to make it easier for first time pie makers.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 02:06:59 PM by nick57 »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2013, 11:20:05 PM »
I think everything looks great Nick and your buddies are lucky to have a friend like you. It's quite a bit to take in for a first timer though so I hope they don't have any (blunt :)) distractions. Jus kidding.
Don't know what final dough temp you are trying to get them to...but hot water into a cold steel mixer bowl will cool down a bit.  ;)
Great job man!!  :chef:
(wish you were my friend 8))
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2013, 11:56:31 PM »
Bob you are a great friend!!!!!!! I am glad I have got to discuss our love of pies! I want to thank you for your insight in helping me making cracker crusts and NY style. Making great food is my love. I am a good artist, but making great eats for my friends is my true love. The dough should get between 79 and 85 degrees, most likely a lower temp on the finished dough. This is a first attempt for my friends, so I am trying to make it easy for them, Once they get addicted I can give a more exact formula. Thanks for your help and inspiration.  Friends are few and far between, but My True Friends are always there. Thanks Bob!

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2013, 12:20:00 AM »
Bob you are a great friend!!!!!!! I am glad I have got to discuss our love of pies! I want to thank you for your insight in helping me making cracker crusts and NY style. Making great food is my love. I am a good artist, but making great eats for my friends is my true love. The dough should get between 79 and 85 degrees, most likely a lower temp on the finished dough. This is a first attempt for my friends, so I am trying to make it easy for them, Once they get addicted I can give a more exact formula. Thanks for your help and inspiration.  Friends are few and far between, but My True Friends are always there. Thanks Bob!
Wow  8)  Thanks so much man! I didn't mean that the way it sounded but you know what I mean.  ;D I'm not artistic but feel I should have been  ;)  and I notice in most artsy folks I know they have a strong desire within to treat their friends in a real nice way such as you have described, Nick, with your want of making good pizza for your pals and now actually trying to teach them. I just think it's great man and am glad to know you too.  :chef:

Bob
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2013, 11:15:21 AM »
1 cup of flour can weigh up to 9 oz

Nick,

You did a nice job with your description of how to make a good NY style pizza in a standard home oven setting. However, is the 9-ounce figure for the weight of a cup of flour a typo? Typically, a cup of flour, for example, KABF, measured out volumetrically in accordance with the Textbook style, which is the method that flour millers and others (such as King Arthur) recommend, weighs about 4.4 ounces. This is in accordance with the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/. Going to a heavier flour measurement method ("Heavy") using that calculator gets you to about 6 ounces per cup, by weight. I would say that that is about the max that you are going to be able to get into a single one-cup measuring cup. And it is not the recommended method. A "Medium" method of flour measurement according to the abovementioned calculator, which may well be the most common method that home bakers use, will get you to about 5 ounces for the KABF.

I also noticed a typo under item 2 in your post. Specifically, "VHG" should be--VWG--. Correcting that will avoid having to do so if your friends start asking you what VHG is.

Peter

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2013, 02:01:59 PM »
I goofed on the measurement for sure. I think I had brain overload. Oh well, I am no expert to say the least, Maybe I should stay in a Holiday Inn or what ever that hotel is where you git smarter. I tried to proof read the post, maybe I need new glasses. Most of my friends are pretty good cooks, and I did round off some numbers to make it easier for them. It should give them a good starting point. I did let them know about this site so they could check out some of the great ideas by the members of the forum.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 02:04:58 PM by nick57 »


Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2013, 07:33:44 PM »
I wanted a pie for Memorial Day. So, I made the dough Friday afternoon and let it sleep in the fridge for three days. The procedure was the same as the last pie I posted here. I decided to do a pepperoni pizza for the first time. I'm not big on pepperoni, but this was the best tasting pie I have made to date. I think the reason was the sauce. I had been scouring the forum when I came upon a thread that had pics of Classico sauces, crushed tomatoes, and peeled tomatoes. I really like their pasta sauces, so I found some crushed tomatoes at Walmart. I was surprised at how nice the flavor was. It was better than any other brands I have tried. I did doctor it up with oregano, basil, garlic powder, onion powder, and black pepper. I did something different this time. I heated up two tablespoons olive oil and let the ingredients bloom in the warm oil for a while before adding the oil and spices to the sauce. It really intensified the flavors. I also microwaved the pepperoni for 30 seconds to release some of the oil. I got rid of a lot of oil, but there was till plenty left as you can tell by the pics.
 The dough ball had a big gas bubble in the center. I popped it as you can tell by the pic. The dough was easy to stretch and still had a lot of bubbles. I did not cheat this time and assembled the pie directly on the peel. I had no problem getting it onto the stone. Before I put the skin in the oven I ran the broiler for 15 minutes to heat up the stone more then usual. The pie cooked quicker than my last ones. I pulled it out after 5 minutes. I liked the crust. It was crispy on the bottom, and was light and chewy. The cornicione was light and very crispy. It even had some wonderful spiderwebbing that seems to be the Holy Grail to some pizza lovers.

 I think I may just stick to this procedure for my Ny styles from now on. I get a great crust and good results from the home oven. I just want to thank Peter for all his help. Of course I want to thank everyone else who has helped me. I really want to thank everyone here for sharing their insights and sharing of all kinds of styles of pies. I will never be done learning, and will enjoy reading and looking at all of your results in getting to pie heaven.
 My next posting will be in cracker crusts. I've been thinking about trying something different, I will post pics and procedures. Hope you all have a great holiday. Remember our hero's overseas and at home. 

« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 07:50:52 PM by nick57 »

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2013, 07:56:05 PM »
Nick,

Nice job with your most recent pizza. It looks like my prediction in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24371.msg248534.html#msg248534 has come to pass  :).

Peter

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2013, 08:01:36 PM »
That's a nice looking pizza pie there Nick; good job!
Any idea how much cheese you used and could you please tell the size and weight of this one?
Thanks!  :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2013, 08:38:24 PM »
Thanks Peter you were right. I went from low hydration to high, then settled on 60%. I'm very happy with my results. With the equipment I am working with I think have gone as far as I can. I can't complain, I think I can make a better pie than most of the pizza joints in town, and I get the enjoyment of tasting my own creation. I may try your Papa John's clone for fun. I have a couple of ideas on cracker crusts, that I will share later on in the forum. Thanks again for taking the to time to help. I could have not done it without you.
 
Hey Bob! Hope you are having a great day. It was a 14" pie and the dough ball weighed 436.41 grams. I used 6 oz of Kraft low moisture part skim mozzarella. ATK said it was their first choice for low moisture part skimmed mozz. Not sure if I agree, but it tasted OK.  Instead of running it through a grater, I used a food processor to crumble the cheese. I like how this melted better than using a cheese grater. I think the sauce really made the pie taste wonderful. I think you are right about the importance of sauce. I'll stick with Classico crushed maters.

Offline norma427

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2013, 09:09:18 PM »
Nick,

Great job on your NY style pizza with pepperoni!  :chef:  The open airy crumb looks really good.

Norma
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2013, 09:14:23 PM »
Thanks Peter you were right. I went from low hydration to high, then settled on 60%. I'm very happy with my results. With the equipment I am working with I think have gone as far as I can. I can't complain, I think I can make a better pie than most of the pizza joints in town, and I get the enjoyment of tasting my own creation. I may try your Papa John's clone for fun. I have a couple of ideas on cracker crusts, that I will share later on in the forum. Thanks again for taking the to time to help. I could have not done it without you.
 
Hey Bob! Hope you are having a great day. It was a 14" pie and the dough ball weighed 436.41 grams. I used 6 oz of Kraft low moisture part skim mozzarella. ATK said it was their first choice for low moisture part skimmed mozz. Not sure if I agree, but it tasted OK.  Instead of running it through a grater, I used a food processor to crumble the cheese. I like how this melted better than using a cheese grater. I think the sauce really made the pie taste wonderful. I think you are right about the importance of sauce. I'll stick with Classico crushed maters.
Thank you Nick; all is swell and I was glad to see you do up the Holiday in fine fashion with that killer NY pie.  8)
I too like the way the cheese melted and am going to try the whizzer method too. Looks like it has more on there than it actually does. I have some new Trader Joe's cheese to try tonight...bought both WM and Low M PS. Couldn't decide which to try first but after seeing yours I belive I'll give that a twirl. Thanks!  :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2013, 09:47:28 PM »
Thanks Bob! Glad you had a great weekend. I was going to do a mixture of provolone and mozz. The store only had sliced provo. I also smoked some St Louis style ribs, a whole chicken and some burgers. Now we have more food than we can eat, and we even fed some relatives.

I used to use 8 oz of cheese at first, but I have gotten down to 5 or 6 ounces for my 14 inch pies, and it still seems very cheesy and I do like the cheese. I had see a thread where you thought the sauce was the magic ingredient in the toppings. That's why I started using more in my last few pies. You were right, I always thought something was lacking. I was worried about using too much sauce and having the toppings slide off the pie. Haven't had that problem though. I was shocked at how good Classico was. I tasted it right from the can and was pleasantly surprised. It may not be a fave with a lot of the people on the forum, but it's the best I can find so far in Tulsa.

A question? I was thinking about doing a 4 or 5 day rest in the fridge, to see if I can get more flavor and texture. The dough calculator  for my recipe calls for almost a teaspoon of IDY for a 1 day rest. I am doing 3 day rests and using 1/2 teaspoon for that. Should I go down to a 1/4 teaspoon or less? Is there any way to calculate that, or is it a trial and error thing? I use a teaspoon of sugar for my 3 day, would I need to use more? Or is it worth it to go for a longer rest time in the fridge?

 

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2013, 10:02:21 PM »
Thanks Bob! Glad you had a great weekend. I was going to do a mixture of provolone and mozz. The store only had sliced provo. I also smoked some St Louis style ribs, a whole chicken and some burgers. Now we have more food than we can eat, and we even fed some relatives.

I used to use 8 oz of cheese at first, but I have gotten down to 5 or 6 ounces for my 14 inch pies, and it still seems very cheesy and I do like the cheese. I had see a thread where you thought the sauce was the magic ingredient in the toppings. That's why I started using more in my last few pies. You were right, I always thought something was lacking. I was worried about using too much sauce and having the toppings slide off the pie. Haven't had that problem though. I was shocked at how good Classico was. I tasted it right from the can and was pleasantly surprised. It may not be a fave with a lot of the people on the forum, but it's the best I can find so far in Tulsa.

A question? I was thinking about doing a 4 or 5 day rest in the fridge, to see if I can get more flavor and texture. The dough calculator  for my recipe calls for almost a teaspoon of IDY for a 1 day rest. I am doing 3 day rests and using 1/2 teaspoon for that. Should I go down to a 1/4 teaspoon or less? Is there any way to calculate that, or is it a trial and error thing? I use a teaspoon of sugar for my 3 day, would I need to use more? Or is it worth it to go for a longer rest time in the fridge?
Is it worth it to go longer? Only you can judge that I believe Nick. Unless you have a reference to go off of from someone who has already tried super extendeds with the same recipe/work flow as yours. ;)

I hope Peter will come back alomg here because I believe he has a chart; or at least the knowledge in regards to your wanting to understand how to calculate/estimate sugar quantities in relation to fermentation lengths.

btw, Classico is a fave fab thing around here. Great stuff! Might want to stock up Nick...it looks like Walmart is getting ready to do some sort of elimination, or,hopefully just some sort of label change maybe. reported here that the choices are getting limited recently now.... ;)

Bob
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 10:06:20 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2013, 10:50:19 PM »
Thanks Norma. Your pies look so wonderful. You are an amazing pie guru. I would love to come your way to try a slice or two or maybe three. I will look forward to seeing some more of your amazing artistry.

Yeah Bob, the selection of the Classico line at the Walmart was limited. They only had whole canned tomatoes, and crushed. They were both were 28 oz cans. They did have 3 of the Classico pasta sauces, which are pretty good. I could always run them in the blender and they would work. The 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes cost $1.00. I'll be going back to Wally World and stock up. Walmart has the Neighborhood Market stores here, maybe they have a wider selection. They are more upscale. I have noticed at my local grocery that they have made the shelf space a lot smaller for Classico. They have some new Italian brand sounding sauces I have never heard of taking up more space, and the price is a lot higher. I am always suspect when unheard of fancy new labels appear. I'll do some more investigating, I bet some are just rebranded sauces trying to create more revenue. I have read on the forum that the Walmart  brand is good. Is it the Great Value brand?

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2013, 10:54:53 PM »
Thanks Norma. Your pies look so wonderful. You are an amazing pie guru. I would love to come your way to try a slice or two or maybe three. I will look forward to seeing some more of your amazing artistry.

Yeah Bob, the selection of the Classico line at the Walmart was limited. They only had whole canned tomatoes, and crushed. They were both were 28 oz cans. They did have 3 of the Classico pasta sauces, which are pretty good. I could always run them in the blender and they would work. The 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes cost $1.00. I'll be going back to Wally World and stock up. Walmart has the Neighborhood Market stores here, maybe they have a wider selection. They are more upscale. I have noticed at my local grocery that they have made the shelf space a lot smaller for Classico. They have some new Italian brand sounding sauces I have never heard of taking up more space, and the price is a lot higher. I am always suspect when unheard of fancy new labels appear. I'll do some more investigating, I bet some are just rebranded sauces trying to create more revenue. I have read on the forum that the Walmart  brand is good. Is it the Great Value brand?
Yes, the walmart "great value" were the daddy's until classico was discovered. btw, the classicos are made by same co. that makes the 6n1's...Heinz.
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