Author Topic: My first NY style  (Read 11516 times)

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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2013, 07:33:44 PM »
I wanted a pie for Memorial Day. So, I made the dough Friday afternoon and let it sleep in the fridge for three days. The procedure was the same as the last pie I posted here. I decided to do a pepperoni pizza for the first time. I'm not big on pepperoni, but this was the best tasting pie I have made to date. I think the reason was the sauce. I had been scouring the forum when I came upon a thread that had pics of Classico sauces, crushed tomatoes, and peeled tomatoes. I really like their pasta sauces, so I found some crushed tomatoes at Walmart. I was surprised at how nice the flavor was. It was better than any other brands I have tried. I did doctor it up with oregano, basil, garlic powder, onion powder, and black pepper. I did something different this time. I heated up two tablespoons olive oil and let the ingredients bloom in the warm oil for a while before adding the oil and spices to the sauce. It really intensified the flavors. I also microwaved the pepperoni for 30 seconds to release some of the oil. I got rid of a lot of oil, but there was till plenty left as you can tell by the pics.
 The dough ball had a big gas bubble in the center. I popped it as you can tell by the pic. The dough was easy to stretch and still had a lot of bubbles. I did not cheat this time and assembled the pie directly on the peel. I had no problem getting it onto the stone. Before I put the skin in the oven I ran the broiler for 15 minutes to heat up the stone more then usual. The pie cooked quicker than my last ones. I pulled it out after 5 minutes. I liked the crust. It was crispy on the bottom, and was light and chewy. The cornicione was light and very crispy. It even had some wonderful spiderwebbing that seems to be the Holy Grail to some pizza lovers.

 I think I may just stick to this procedure for my Ny styles from now on. I get a great crust and good results from the home oven. I just want to thank Peter for all his help. Of course I want to thank everyone else who has helped me. I really want to thank everyone here for sharing their insights and sharing of all kinds of styles of pies. I will never be done learning, and will enjoy reading and looking at all of your results in getting to pie heaven.
 My next posting will be in cracker crusts. I've been thinking about trying something different, I will post pics and procedures. Hope you all have a great holiday. Remember our hero's overseas and at home. 

« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 07:50:52 PM by nick57 »


Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2013, 07:56:05 PM »
Nick,

Nice job with your most recent pizza. It looks like my prediction in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24371.msg248534.html#msg248534 has come to pass  :).

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2013, 08:01:36 PM »
That's a nice looking pizza pie there Nick; good job!
Any idea how much cheese you used and could you please tell the size and weight of this one?
Thanks!  :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2013, 08:38:24 PM »
Thanks Peter you were right. I went from low hydration to high, then settled on 60%. I'm very happy with my results. With the equipment I am working with I think have gone as far as I can. I can't complain, I think I can make a better pie than most of the pizza joints in town, and I get the enjoyment of tasting my own creation. I may try your Papa John's clone for fun. I have a couple of ideas on cracker crusts, that I will share later on in the forum. Thanks again for taking the to time to help. I could have not done it without you.
 
Hey Bob! Hope you are having a great day. It was a 14" pie and the dough ball weighed 436.41 grams. I used 6 oz of Kraft low moisture part skim mozzarella. ATK said it was their first choice for low moisture part skimmed mozz. Not sure if I agree, but it tasted OK.  Instead of running it through a grater, I used a food processor to crumble the cheese. I like how this melted better than using a cheese grater. I think the sauce really made the pie taste wonderful. I think you are right about the importance of sauce. I'll stick with Classico crushed maters.

Offline norma427

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2013, 09:09:18 PM »
Nick,

Great job on your NY style pizza with pepperoni!  :chef:  The open airy crumb looks really good.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2013, 09:14:23 PM »
Thanks Peter you were right. I went from low hydration to high, then settled on 60%. I'm very happy with my results. With the equipment I am working with I think have gone as far as I can. I can't complain, I think I can make a better pie than most of the pizza joints in town, and I get the enjoyment of tasting my own creation. I may try your Papa John's clone for fun. I have a couple of ideas on cracker crusts, that I will share later on in the forum. Thanks again for taking the to time to help. I could have not done it without you.
 
Hey Bob! Hope you are having a great day. It was a 14" pie and the dough ball weighed 436.41 grams. I used 6 oz of Kraft low moisture part skim mozzarella. ATK said it was their first choice for low moisture part skimmed mozz. Not sure if I agree, but it tasted OK.  Instead of running it through a grater, I used a food processor to crumble the cheese. I like how this melted better than using a cheese grater. I think the sauce really made the pie taste wonderful. I think you are right about the importance of sauce. I'll stick with Classico crushed maters.
Thank you Nick; all is swell and I was glad to see you do up the Holiday in fine fashion with that killer NY pie.  8)
I too like the way the cheese melted and am going to try the whizzer method too. Looks like it has more on there than it actually does. I have some new Trader Joe's cheese to try tonight...bought both WM and Low M PS. Couldn't decide which to try first but after seeing yours I belive I'll give that a twirl. Thanks!  :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2013, 09:47:28 PM »
Thanks Bob! Glad you had a great weekend. I was going to do a mixture of provolone and mozz. The store only had sliced provo. I also smoked some St Louis style ribs, a whole chicken and some burgers. Now we have more food than we can eat, and we even fed some relatives.

I used to use 8 oz of cheese at first, but I have gotten down to 5 or 6 ounces for my 14 inch pies, and it still seems very cheesy and I do like the cheese. I had see a thread where you thought the sauce was the magic ingredient in the toppings. That's why I started using more in my last few pies. You were right, I always thought something was lacking. I was worried about using too much sauce and having the toppings slide off the pie. Haven't had that problem though. I was shocked at how good Classico was. I tasted it right from the can and was pleasantly surprised. It may not be a fave with a lot of the people on the forum, but it's the best I can find so far in Tulsa.

A question? I was thinking about doing a 4 or 5 day rest in the fridge, to see if I can get more flavor and texture. The dough calculator  for my recipe calls for almost a teaspoon of IDY for a 1 day rest. I am doing 3 day rests and using 1/2 teaspoon for that. Should I go down to a 1/4 teaspoon or less? Is there any way to calculate that, or is it a trial and error thing? I use a teaspoon of sugar for my 3 day, would I need to use more? Or is it worth it to go for a longer rest time in the fridge?

 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2013, 10:02:21 PM »
Thanks Bob! Glad you had a great weekend. I was going to do a mixture of provolone and mozz. The store only had sliced provo. I also smoked some St Louis style ribs, a whole chicken and some burgers. Now we have more food than we can eat, and we even fed some relatives.

I used to use 8 oz of cheese at first, but I have gotten down to 5 or 6 ounces for my 14 inch pies, and it still seems very cheesy and I do like the cheese. I had see a thread where you thought the sauce was the magic ingredient in the toppings. That's why I started using more in my last few pies. You were right, I always thought something was lacking. I was worried about using too much sauce and having the toppings slide off the pie. Haven't had that problem though. I was shocked at how good Classico was. I tasted it right from the can and was pleasantly surprised. It may not be a fave with a lot of the people on the forum, but it's the best I can find so far in Tulsa.

A question? I was thinking about doing a 4 or 5 day rest in the fridge, to see if I can get more flavor and texture. The dough calculator  for my recipe calls for almost a teaspoon of IDY for a 1 day rest. I am doing 3 day rests and using 1/2 teaspoon for that. Should I go down to a 1/4 teaspoon or less? Is there any way to calculate that, or is it a trial and error thing? I use a teaspoon of sugar for my 3 day, would I need to use more? Or is it worth it to go for a longer rest time in the fridge?
Is it worth it to go longer? Only you can judge that I believe Nick. Unless you have a reference to go off of from someone who has already tried super extendeds with the same recipe/work flow as yours. ;)

I hope Peter will come back alomg here because I believe he has a chart; or at least the knowledge in regards to your wanting to understand how to calculate/estimate sugar quantities in relation to fermentation lengths.

btw, Classico is a fave fab thing around here. Great stuff! Might want to stock up Nick...it looks like Walmart is getting ready to do some sort of elimination, or,hopefully just some sort of label change maybe. reported here that the choices are getting limited recently now.... ;)

Bob
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 10:06:20 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2013, 10:50:19 PM »
Thanks Norma. Your pies look so wonderful. You are an amazing pie guru. I would love to come your way to try a slice or two or maybe three. I will look forward to seeing some more of your amazing artistry.

Yeah Bob, the selection of the Classico line at the Walmart was limited. They only had whole canned tomatoes, and crushed. They were both were 28 oz cans. They did have 3 of the Classico pasta sauces, which are pretty good. I could always run them in the blender and they would work. The 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes cost $1.00. I'll be going back to Wally World and stock up. Walmart has the Neighborhood Market stores here, maybe they have a wider selection. They are more upscale. I have noticed at my local grocery that they have made the shelf space a lot smaller for Classico. They have some new Italian brand sounding sauces I have never heard of taking up more space, and the price is a lot higher. I am always suspect when unheard of fancy new labels appear. I'll do some more investigating, I bet some are just rebranded sauces trying to create more revenue. I have read on the forum that the Walmart  brand is good. Is it the Great Value brand?


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2013, 10:54:53 PM »
Thanks Norma. Your pies look so wonderful. You are an amazing pie guru. I would love to come your way to try a slice or two or maybe three. I will look forward to seeing some more of your amazing artistry.

Yeah Bob, the selection of the Classico line at the Walmart was limited. They only had whole canned tomatoes, and crushed. They were both were 28 oz cans. They did have 3 of the Classico pasta sauces, which are pretty good. I could always run them in the blender and they would work. The 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes cost $1.00. I'll be going back to Wally World and stock up. Walmart has the Neighborhood Market stores here, maybe they have a wider selection. They are more upscale. I have noticed at my local grocery that they have made the shelf space a lot smaller for Classico. They have some new Italian brand sounding sauces I have never heard of taking up more space, and the price is a lot higher. I am always suspect when unheard of fancy new labels appear. I'll do some more investigating, I bet some are just rebranded sauces trying to create more revenue. I have read on the forum that the Walmart  brand is good. Is it the Great Value brand?
Yes, the walmart "great value" were the daddy's until classico was discovered. btw, the classicos are made by same co. that makes the 6n1's...Heinz.
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2013, 11:16:33 PM »
 Thanks for the info Bob. Heinz huh, and I don't like their brand. I'll try the Great Value, at least they still push that.


I forgot to mention that my last two pies that I made, I kneaded them less than before. I mixed the dough with the paddle on 1 for about a minute. I let it rest for 5 minutes, then added the oil and mixed for another minute on 1 till the oil was incorporated. I then switched to the dough hook and kneaded for 4 minutes on 2 till the dough was just trying to get smooth. It was not silky but close. I had read that I should work the dough less when doing a long rest in the fridge. I was also very gentle in opening the ball. I created the edge, then used the middle of my fingers in a rocking motion to push out the dough. When I stretched it out to half size, I flipped it over. I held the dough with one hand and lightly stretched with the other till about 75 percent of desired size. I then picked up the skin and very gently  stretched the skin with the back of my hands till I had the size I wanted. I'm not sure that any of this matters, but I think handling the dough gently does help with making the crust structure more light. Of course I could be wrong.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2013, 11:29:23 PM »
Thanks for the info Bob. Heinz huh, and I don't like their brand. I'll try the Great Value, at least they still push that.


I forgot to mention that my last two pies that I made, I kneaded them less than before. I mixed the dough with the paddle on 1 for about a minute. I let it rest for 5 minutes, then added the oil and mixed for another minute on 1 till the oil was incorporated. I then switched to the dough hook and kneaded for 4 minutes on 2 till the dough was just trying to get smooth. It was not silky but close. I had read that I should work the dough less when doing a long rest in the fridge. I was also very gentle in opening the ball. I created the edge, then used the middle of my fingers in a rocking motion to push out the dough. When I stretched it out to half size, I flipped it over. I held the dough with one hand and lightly stretched with the other till about 75 percent of desired size. I then picked up the skin and very gently  stretched the skin with the back of my hands till I had the size I wanted. I'm not sure that any of this matters, but I think handling the dough gently does help with making the crust structure more light. Of course I could be wrong.
Oh no...you are absolutely correct here. You want to keep from deflating as much as you can and your description of rocking the dough out with the flat part of your fingers is excellent. Keeping air in that rim is what has given your pizza a really great look(ghost crumb)  :)
More and more you hear on our forum about the merits of shorter mix times....for your formula you've found a good balance with your mix timing/workflow.
Isn't it a great feeling when you can pick the dough up and finish the stretch on the back of your knuckles.  ;D

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2013, 11:44:03 PM »
I've never had the dough tear yet when I hand stretch, but I'm sure it will happen. I always make sure not to stretch the center of the dough. It thins out when I finish stretching with the back of my hands off the counter. Using Peter's and the Dough Doctors recipes someone like me can create something wonderful. I looked at the beginning of this thread and I can really see the improvement over time and with the help of guys like you and Peter. I did not realize how long this forum has been online till the other day. There is a wealth of info here.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2013, 11:56:17 PM »
Yep, when someone has a dough stretching question that I see I like t link to the utube that one girl who is a Canadian pizza champ has. She stresses about leaving some meat in the center of the dough ball as it's being opened and that is what helps to avoid tears...you've done good. ;)
Yes, this is quite a forum. I always get a kick out of seeimg that one stat "most online ever"...750 (July 08, 2009, 07:14:05 PM) .
Is that for real man   ???  Must have been a mad house....bet Peter(bless his heart) misses that day!! :-D


Bob
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Offline pythonic

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2013, 02:47:14 AM »
Nice pie Nick.  Are you happy with that thickness or do you dare go thinner?

Nate
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2013, 10:08:58 AM »
Thanks! I dare not go thinner. The skin was pretty transparent when I finished hand stretching. I was afraid it was going to be too thin, been there before. I'm thinking it could be too thin for NY style since I have not had the pleasure of eating one and seeing it up close. I'm pretty happy with my latest attempt. I'll stick with this recipe, unless I want to do some experimenting for fun.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2013, 10:23:26 AM »
A question? I was thinking about doing a 4 or 5 day rest in the fridge, to see if I can get more flavor and texture. The dough calculator  for my recipe calls for almost a teaspoon of IDY for a 1 day rest. I am doing 3 day rests and using 1/2 teaspoon for that. Should I go down to a 1/4 teaspoon or less? Is there any way to calculate that, or is it a trial and error thing? I use a teaspoon of sugar for my 3 day, would I need to use more? Or is it worth it to go for a longer rest time in the fridge?
Nick,

If you are of a mind to try to extend the dough fermentation period, I would suggest that you just reduce the amount of yeast (IDY). Most professional pizza operators who specialize in the NY style and use cold fermentation tend to work in the 1-3 day range. Once in a while, you will hear of someone using four or five days, but those tend to be outliers and fairly uncommon. You are more likely to see long fermentation periods among the members of the forum. I and others have made cold fermented doughs that have been usable for up to 20+ days. However, to achieve such long fermentation periods, the dough formulation and preparation and management have to be just right. An example of a popular NY style dough formulation that many members have used to make doughs with long fermentation periods within the window you are contemplating is Glutenboy's recipe as set forth at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.0.html. His recipe is naturally well suited for long fermentation times. You can also see later examples of Glutenboy's work if you look at the posts under "Glutenboy's Version" at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11860.msg110289.html#msg110289.

You are not the first member to ask if there is a chart or table that tells one how to adapt a particular recipe to achieve a particular fermentation window or to work at a different fermentation temperature, or maybe even a combination of both. The most recent question along those lines was by member MightyPizzaOven (Bert). In Bert's case, his question was with respect to using ADY. However, the answer also applies to IDY or any other form of commercial yeast. Unfortunately, there is not an easy answer to either Bert's question or yours. There is no simple chart or table that you can use. It is possible for you to create your own chart or table but it entails a lot of work and a lot of measurements. You can see this from my reply to Bert at Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24869.msg251504/topicseen.html#msg251504. If you are like most people, you will be disinclined to embark on an exercise that will take a lot of time and effort to complete. So, your best bet will be to simply reduce the amount of IDY if you want to extend the cold fermentation period. At the same time, it won't hurt to increase the amount of sugar a bit, both to feed the yeast and retain good crust coloration.

I see that Nate asked a question about your crust thickness, and to which you responded in your last post. By my calculation based on the information you provided to Bob, you are using a thickness factor of 0.10. Although that is not particularly uncommon (I have even seen higher values), most of our members are inclined to use lower thickness factor values for the NY style. Maybe something around 0.075-0.09. Sometime you might consider using a lower thickness factor if only to see if you prefer the results using the lower thickness factor. This is a matter of personal preference even if it doesn't square with traditional methods.

Peter


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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2013, 10:50:19 AM »
Yes, this is quite a forum. I always get a kick out of seeimg that one stat "most online ever"...750 (July 08, 2009, 07:14:05 PM) .
Is that for real man   ???  Must have been a mad house....bet Peter(bless his heart) misses that day!! :-D
Bob,

To be honest, I never quite understood what happened on that day that resulted in 750 users being online at one time. Back then, we had a lot of people using bots and the like that tried to hack the forum to be able to spam it or to cause other mischief. Steve eventually ended all that but it took a lot of work and time to do it.

The number of people online at any given time has never bothered me. What slows me down is large numbers of new posts that I have to look at to be sure that they are in the right place in the forum's indexing system and otherwise comply with the forum's rules and regulations. On the day in question (July 8, 2009), there were only 80 new posts. That was a no brainer, or an easy peasy day to use one of your favorite expressions.

Peter

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2013, 11:06:13 AM »
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I may pass on longer fermentation times. I like the flavor of texture of the crust, and I'm not sure if I would get any improvement. Of course I may get a wild hair and want experiment and have some fun. I'll try the thinner TF on my next pie just to see if I can stretch it without tearing. I could almost read a paper through the skin on this last pie.

I am having a problem with mushrooms. Do most people precook them before they go on the pie, or is going uncooked the way to go. A few years back I used uncooked mushrooms and it seemed that they lost all their moisture and the pie ended up wet and soggy. Back then I was trying to cook the pie at 350 for about 10 or 15 minutes. Would the low temp and long cook time cause this, as compared to high temp and short cook time? I don't mind  precooking  but I think it changes the flavor of the shrooms.

 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 11:07:55 AM by nick57 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2013, 11:36:59 AM »
Nick,
It's only a dough ball so why not throw one in the back of the fridg and let 'er go...a wild hare as you said.  ;D
I don't know if you've ever seen any posts where me and others have talked about finding a long lost(month+?) dough ball buried half dead somewhere in the back of the fridg only to find it turn out to be one of the best pizzas we ever had! Not kidding. A reball an counter rise(I've seen some that would not rise again if you gave it mouth to mouth)and BAM! Amazing pizza. Strange indeed.  ???  Tom; "pizza anarchy", like to experiment with long fermentations at times so you might want to check him out.  ;)

Mushrooms...I truly believe the fresh ones are not as moist as a few years ago so if you'd like to revisit 'shrooms on a pie don't hesitate to do as you've done. When I use uncooked I like to slice them super thin...this gives appearance of more coverage and limits your water exposure. And I just prefer the texture that way on a NY pie. Now Chicago or cracker style; that's something different...I lay 'em on and like I said, haven't been having any water trouble anyway with "today's" mushrooms.
Hope this helps...

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2013, 12:11:44 PM »
Bob, next time I make a pie, I'll make an extra ball with a lesser amount of yeast and see how long it'll go. I like the idea of slicing the mushrooms very thin. I was using the sliced mushrooms instead of slicing them myself. They averaged about a 1/4 of inch or more, which means more moisture to surface area. I think thin is in, and I'll bet that they will taste great. Thanks for the suggestion I'll let you know how this works out.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2013, 12:29:40 PM »
I actually do think you get more flavor out of them the thinner/shaved they are sliced. 
Good luck!  :chef:
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Offline pythonic

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2013, 11:04:36 AM »
When I cut them thin they dry out.  1/4 in seems to work best.  Whites tend to have more flavor then portobellos too.

Nate
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2013, 09:04:51 PM »
Just for fun, I thought I would share.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2013, 09:45:26 PM »
I love gals who know what they want.  8)
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