Author Topic: My first NY style  (Read 9915 times)

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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2013, 11:16:33 PM »
 Thanks for the info Bob. Heinz huh, and I don't like their brand. I'll try the Great Value, at least they still push that.


I forgot to mention that my last two pies that I made, I kneaded them less than before. I mixed the dough with the paddle on 1 for about a minute. I let it rest for 5 minutes, then added the oil and mixed for another minute on 1 till the oil was incorporated. I then switched to the dough hook and kneaded for 4 minutes on 2 till the dough was just trying to get smooth. It was not silky but close. I had read that I should work the dough less when doing a long rest in the fridge. I was also very gentle in opening the ball. I created the edge, then used the middle of my fingers in a rocking motion to push out the dough. When I stretched it out to half size, I flipped it over. I held the dough with one hand and lightly stretched with the other till about 75 percent of desired size. I then picked up the skin and very gently  stretched the skin with the back of my hands till I had the size I wanted. I'm not sure that any of this matters, but I think handling the dough gently does help with making the crust structure more light. Of course I could be wrong.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2013, 11:29:23 PM »
Thanks for the info Bob. Heinz huh, and I don't like their brand. I'll try the Great Value, at least they still push that.


I forgot to mention that my last two pies that I made, I kneaded them less than before. I mixed the dough with the paddle on 1 for about a minute. I let it rest for 5 minutes, then added the oil and mixed for another minute on 1 till the oil was incorporated. I then switched to the dough hook and kneaded for 4 minutes on 2 till the dough was just trying to get smooth. It was not silky but close. I had read that I should work the dough less when doing a long rest in the fridge. I was also very gentle in opening the ball. I created the edge, then used the middle of my fingers in a rocking motion to push out the dough. When I stretched it out to half size, I flipped it over. I held the dough with one hand and lightly stretched with the other till about 75 percent of desired size. I then picked up the skin and very gently  stretched the skin with the back of my hands till I had the size I wanted. I'm not sure that any of this matters, but I think handling the dough gently does help with making the crust structure more light. Of course I could be wrong.
Oh no...you are absolutely correct here. You want to keep from deflating as much as you can and your description of rocking the dough out with the flat part of your fingers is excellent. Keeping air in that rim is what has given your pizza a really great look(ghost crumb)  :)
More and more you hear on our forum about the merits of shorter mix times....for your formula you've found a good balance with your mix timing/workflow.
Isn't it a great feeling when you can pick the dough up and finish the stretch on the back of your knuckles.  ;D

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2013, 11:44:03 PM »
I've never had the dough tear yet when I hand stretch, but I'm sure it will happen. I always make sure not to stretch the center of the dough. It thins out when I finish stretching with the back of my hands off the counter. Using Peter's and the Dough Doctors recipes someone like me can create something wonderful. I looked at the beginning of this thread and I can really see the improvement over time and with the help of guys like you and Peter. I did not realize how long this forum has been online till the other day. There is a wealth of info here.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2013, 11:56:17 PM »
Yep, when someone has a dough stretching question that I see I like t link to the utube that one girl who is a Canadian pizza champ has. She stresses about leaving some meat in the center of the dough ball as it's being opened and that is what helps to avoid tears...you've done good. ;)
Yes, this is quite a forum. I always get a kick out of seeimg that one stat "most online ever"...750 (July 08, 2009, 07:14:05 PM) .
Is that for real man   ???  Must have been a mad house....bet Peter(bless his heart) misses that day!! :-D


Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2013, 02:47:14 AM »
Nice pie Nick.  Are you happy with that thickness or do you dare go thinner?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2013, 10:08:58 AM »
Thanks! I dare not go thinner. The skin was pretty transparent when I finished hand stretching. I was afraid it was going to be too thin, been there before. I'm thinking it could be too thin for NY style since I have not had the pleasure of eating one and seeing it up close. I'm pretty happy with my latest attempt. I'll stick with this recipe, unless I want to do some experimenting for fun.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2013, 10:23:26 AM »
A question? I was thinking about doing a 4 or 5 day rest in the fridge, to see if I can get more flavor and texture. The dough calculator  for my recipe calls for almost a teaspoon of IDY for a 1 day rest. I am doing 3 day rests and using 1/2 teaspoon for that. Should I go down to a 1/4 teaspoon or less? Is there any way to calculate that, or is it a trial and error thing? I use a teaspoon of sugar for my 3 day, would I need to use more? Or is it worth it to go for a longer rest time in the fridge?
Nick,

If you are of a mind to try to extend the dough fermentation period, I would suggest that you just reduce the amount of yeast (IDY). Most professional pizza operators who specialize in the NY style and use cold fermentation tend to work in the 1-3 day range. Once in a while, you will hear of someone using four or five days, but those tend to be outliers and fairly uncommon. You are more likely to see long fermentation periods among the members of the forum. I and others have made cold fermented doughs that have been usable for up to 20+ days. However, to achieve such long fermentation periods, the dough formulation and preparation and management have to be just right. An example of a popular NY style dough formulation that many members have used to make doughs with long fermentation periods within the window you are contemplating is Glutenboy's recipe as set forth at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.0.html. His recipe is naturally well suited for long fermentation times. You can also see later examples of Glutenboy's work if you look at the posts under "Glutenboy's Version" at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11860.msg110289.html#msg110289.

You are not the first member to ask if there is a chart or table that tells one how to adapt a particular recipe to achieve a particular fermentation window or to work at a different fermentation temperature, or maybe even a combination of both. The most recent question along those lines was by member MightyPizzaOven (Bert). In Bert's case, his question was with respect to using ADY. However, the answer also applies to IDY or any other form of commercial yeast. Unfortunately, there is not an easy answer to either Bert's question or yours. There is no simple chart or table that you can use. It is possible for you to create your own chart or table but it entails a lot of work and a lot of measurements. You can see this from my reply to Bert at Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24869.msg251504/topicseen.html#msg251504. If you are like most people, you will be disinclined to embark on an exercise that will take a lot of time and effort to complete. So, your best bet will be to simply reduce the amount of IDY if you want to extend the cold fermentation period. At the same time, it won't hurt to increase the amount of sugar a bit, both to feed the yeast and retain good crust coloration.

I see that Nate asked a question about your crust thickness, and to which you responded in your last post. By my calculation based on the information you provided to Bob, you are using a thickness factor of 0.10. Although that is not particularly uncommon (I have even seen higher values), most of our members are inclined to use lower thickness factor values for the NY style. Maybe something around 0.075-0.09. Sometime you might consider using a lower thickness factor if only to see if you prefer the results using the lower thickness factor. This is a matter of personal preference even if it doesn't square with traditional methods.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2013, 10:50:19 AM »
Yes, this is quite a forum. I always get a kick out of seeimg that one stat "most online ever"...750 (July 08, 2009, 07:14:05 PM) .
Is that for real man   ???  Must have been a mad house....bet Peter(bless his heart) misses that day!! :-D
Bob,

To be honest, I never quite understood what happened on that day that resulted in 750 users being online at one time. Back then, we had a lot of people using bots and the like that tried to hack the forum to be able to spam it or to cause other mischief. Steve eventually ended all that but it took a lot of work and time to do it.

The number of people online at any given time has never bothered me. What slows me down is large numbers of new posts that I have to look at to be sure that they are in the right place in the forum's indexing system and otherwise comply with the forum's rules and regulations. On the day in question (July 8, 2009), there were only 80 new posts. That was a no brainer, or an easy peasy day to use one of your favorite expressions.

Peter

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2013, 11:06:13 AM »
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I may pass on longer fermentation times. I like the flavor of texture of the crust, and I'm not sure if I would get any improvement. Of course I may get a wild hair and want experiment and have some fun. I'll try the thinner TF on my next pie just to see if I can stretch it without tearing. I could almost read a paper through the skin on this last pie.

I am having a problem with mushrooms. Do most people precook them before they go on the pie, or is going uncooked the way to go. A few years back I used uncooked mushrooms and it seemed that they lost all their moisture and the pie ended up wet and soggy. Back then I was trying to cook the pie at 350 for about 10 or 15 minutes. Would the low temp and long cook time cause this, as compared to high temp and short cook time? I don't mind  precooking  but I think it changes the flavor of the shrooms.

 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 11:07:55 AM by nick57 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2013, 11:36:59 AM »
Nick,
It's only a dough ball so why not throw one in the back of the fridg and let 'er go...a wild hare as you said.  ;D
I don't know if you've ever seen any posts where me and others have talked about finding a long lost(month+?) dough ball buried half dead somewhere in the back of the fridg only to find it turn out to be one of the best pizzas we ever had! Not kidding. A reball an counter rise(I've seen some that would not rise again if you gave it mouth to mouth)and BAM! Amazing pizza. Strange indeed.  ???  Tom; "pizza anarchy", like to experiment with long fermentations at times so you might want to check him out.  ;)

Mushrooms...I truly believe the fresh ones are not as moist as a few years ago so if you'd like to revisit 'shrooms on a pie don't hesitate to do as you've done. When I use uncooked I like to slice them super thin...this gives appearance of more coverage and limits your water exposure. And I just prefer the texture that way on a NY pie. Now Chicago or cracker style; that's something different...I lay 'em on and like I said, haven't been having any water trouble anyway with "today's" mushrooms.
Hope this helps...

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2013, 12:11:44 PM »
Bob, next time I make a pie, I'll make an extra ball with a lesser amount of yeast and see how long it'll go. I like the idea of slicing the mushrooms very thin. I was using the sliced mushrooms instead of slicing them myself. They averaged about a 1/4 of inch or more, which means more moisture to surface area. I think thin is in, and I'll bet that they will taste great. Thanks for the suggestion I'll let you know how this works out.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2013, 12:29:40 PM »
I actually do think you get more flavor out of them the thinner/shaved they are sliced. 
Good luck!  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2013, 11:04:36 AM »
When I cut them thin they dry out.  1/4 in seems to work best.  Whites tend to have more flavor then portobellos too.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2013, 09:04:51 PM »
Just for fun, I thought I would share.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2013, 09:45:26 PM »
I love gals who know what they want.  8)
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2013, 09:50:25 PM »
Me too!

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2013, 06:04:07 PM »
I'm going to make another NY pie this Saturday, the dough is in the fridge for 3 days. My TF this time will be .097. I topping it with capocollo, olives, and a mix of provolone/mozz cheese. For the sauce I am using San Marzano tomatoes for the first time.

My question..... I found some whole milk mozz at Wally World, it's the Great Value brand. It's in block form. Would it be OK to use on my NY style, or will it release too much moisture?   

Offline wahoo88

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2013, 04:48:54 PM »
Hey Nick, I just read through this thread.  Imagine my disappointment when I get to the end and there isn't a picture of the newest pies from Saturday the 15th.  Did you end up taking photos of those pizzas?  Someone needs to make a half and half, before and after shot of your NY Style pies; they've come a long way.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2013, 04:57:44 PM »
I'm going to make another NY pie this Saturday, the dough is in the fridge for 3 days. My TF this time will be .097. I topping it with capocollo, olives, and a mix of provolone/mozz cheese. For the sauce I am using San Marzano tomatoes for the first time.

My question..... I found some whole milk mozz at Wally World, it's the Great Value brand. It's in block form. Would it be OK to use on my NY style, or will it release too much moisture?
Nick, that Walter World cheese will work just as good as any of the other retail(polly-o,sorrento) cheeses do.  ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2013, 01:26:13 PM »
This pie was a train wreck like LILO. It was a 14" pie with a TF of .10, I forgot to go for a TF of.097. I used the whole milk mozz for the cheese.  As for the capocollo, it was nice looking but had a very bitter and sour taste. I let my taster have a bite, and they hated it. I don't know if it was a bad batch or if that's the way it is supposed to taste. We threw it out. So, I grilled some chicken tenders instead. The  San Marzano tomatoes had a good flavor, but I think I liked the Classico crushed maters better. Since this pie was not going to be what I wanted, I decided to try getting a crisper bottom. I cooked the pie till it was getting close to being done and pulled it from the oven. I let it cool for ten minutes then put it back on the stone till I liked how the cheese and crust looked. It was crisper, but I don't think it was worth the extra trouble.
 I dusted the peel with semolina flour but the skin wanted to stick. I used Bob's bump method and it still wanted to stick. I finally blew under the skin and that loosened it up. After all that, I still had trouble getting the pie onto the stone. You can see in the first pic that it ended up out of shape. The last pic shows the nice brown bottom, and you can see the folds in the dough where the skin compressed coming off the peel. This was one of my worst pies, but a good learning experiment.
I did learn something today. I went to Mario's NY pizza and had a Italian sausage pizza. I talked to the owner and he is from NY, which is where he learned to make pies. The pie tasted great. They took link sausage and sliced it paper thin. The taste was heavenly, and the crust was very light, crispy and flavorful. The crust was very thin but held up to the toppings. After looking at Mario's pie, I need to make my skins thinner. I think I will try .097 TF  on my next pie. I am also going to use less cheese. I'll post pics and comments.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 06:15:20 PM by nick57 »


 

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