Author Topic: My first NY style  (Read 9249 times)

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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2013, 02:00:52 PM »
Well; despite your tribulations Nick, you have a most excellent dough going on for you...that crumb is a beauty!  :chef:
Glad you tossed the Capo...it should be slightly sweet an smokey tasting; and a bit peppery if you have the "hot" variety (reddish tint).
The "Bob Bump" is a diagnostic tool/technique...watch closely all around your pie; double bump if necessary while you also to "the twist ;D) and if you see any resistance/drag stop ...this is your opportunity to fix that 'lil problem where maybe a bit of sauce sneaked up under there or perhaps just not an even pre-dusting occurred. Go ahead and pick up that 'lil nagging/stubborn spot and flick a bit of your dusting agent under there.  Don't forget your re-Bob-a-Louie bump...twist an shout once and you're Golden!  :drool:
For NY I always nuke my Premio Mild It. sausage and shave coins out on the el-cheapo meat slicer...awesome flavor right there. ;)
Keep up the good fight Nick!  ;D
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2013, 02:12:49 PM »
 Thanks Bob! It was a mess of a pie, the crust was the only good thing about it. I am a little worried about going thinner, I can see through the skin already. Mario's was super thin, but very crispy. I really liked the thinness.
Should I cook the sausage till it's almost cooked or just cook it enough to give it a head start before placing on the skin? I'm going to slice it paper thin. I used whole milk mozz on the last pie and liked it. I'm thing about going 50/50 with skim and whole mozz on the pie I am making Sunday. I think my big improvement will be going with a lower TF for the skin.
I have been taking an interest Chicago thin crusts. So, Bob, do you have a fave on the the forum?

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2013, 02:32:11 PM »
Nick, I have found that that the sausage will shave/slice the thinnest if it is cooked quite a bit(barely a 'lil pink center) and then cooledbefore slicing. My local slice joint always assembles their pies as if they are in some mad rush; even if mine is the only order...so, they jus grab big handfuls of the shaved sausage an half assed throw it on there...resulting in some really nice "clumps" that may be 3-4 slices of sausage thick in some spots. Faaantastic....I learned from their haste and that is how I now dress my NY w/ sauseeege pizza's.

I pre-cook links in a bowl with couple tablespoons water on 70% microwave power for 3min. sessions....usually twice for 2 links. The flavor profile changes when going from a raw topped pizza to a pre-cooked..as it should(of course)but it works out fine/preferable for a NY style pie.

Did someone mention Chi-town thin pizza?  :drool:    http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22946.0.html
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 02:38:59 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2013, 02:53:10 PM »
That's how was I going  to cook it, kind of medium rare. I'll use your bowl trick. Mario's does the same thing with their sausage. It's not a uniform layer of meat, I noticed there were several areas where there were three of four slices stuck together. Yummy. The sausage was not burnt or crispy. It's color was grayish to slightly brown. Mario's cornicone did not have much color, almost off white. The outside was crispy and it was soft and chewy on the inside. I may ask them to cook it a little longer next time. They use the typical deck ovens, maybe Blodgett. Next pie I get from there I'll post some pics to see if you think it represents NY style. I also noticed that they were making Deep Dish too. Hmm... Maybe Chi Style. I'll check that too. Thanks for the advice Bob!  Sunday is Pie Day, I can't wait!!!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 03:02:24 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2013, 06:30:21 PM »
 It's pizza Sunday and it was delish. I got brave and lowered the TF on this skin. I went from .10 to .095. I was worried that the skin would tear by going so thin. I had no problem, it was very easy to get to 14" After eating the Mario's pie, I knew my crusts were too thick. The crust was pretty close to Mario's, but is was not quite as thin. I may try a lower TF next time to see if I can get it thinner.

 The last 3 pies I have moved the stone one level lower in the oven. It seems to help with browning of the top. When I had the stone higher, the crust would cook too fast before the toppings were done. This seems the opposite from a lot of other people who raise the stone to get better browning on the top.  I used parchment paper to move the pie to the stone this time. Since I was doing a thickness test I did not want any peel to stone problems like I had on my last pie. This was a 6 minute pie at 550 degrees.

I used Lovera Italian sausage. It's made by a local Italian Food store, they been making it for 65 years. It tastes great, but they use no fennel, which I love. I sliced it as thin as I could. I think I could get it thinner if I almost freeze it, then slice. My sauce was Classico crushed tomatoes with just pepper and some hand crushed oregano. I really like the rich flavor of the Classico, it needs no fixin up, it tastes great on it own. I used a blender to puree the sauce. The cheese was 6oz of whole milk mozz. I think I should use less. The sausage seemed to sink into it. Mario's used paper thin slices of sausage and it stayed on top of the cheese. To me it looked like they used less cheese.
 
 I'm going thinner next time. It was a wonderful tasting pie. I really noticed the difference in the bite by going with a lower TF. My best NY style crust to date.
 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 06:46:33 PM by nick57 »

Offline wahoo88

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2013, 08:41:46 PM »
Yes Nick, that is getting much closer to the thickness of the archetypal New York pizza.  I'm no expert on TF, but if that last pie was taken from .100 down to .095, I'm guessing a .090 may be just about on the thick side of right.  The only other suggestion I could make is to reduce the how wide the cornicione (end crust) is. NY pies don't have that large, puffy cornicione that is typical of American style pies.  Of course, to keep the cornicione:rest of slice ratio consistent between different sized pizzas, you will have to change the thickness of the end crust.  I'm saying this to illustrate that if you decide to bake a 16'' pie, that size end crust may be just right, but it is a bit large for a 14''.  Also, what method do you use to stretch the dough? It may be beneficial to watch Youtube videos of NY pie makers stretching dough very thin. I second the preference for fennel-free sausage. Great work.

Offline wahoo88

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2013, 08:45:08 PM »
Upon closer inspection, the cornicione only appears too large (for classic NY style- I prefer a larger crust :)) in the second crumb shot.  I guess it is a uniformity issue more than anything.  If you like the crust puffy, like me, keep it the same.  I guess you're after a traditional NY slice though, regardless of personal tastes.

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2013, 09:17:47 PM »
Thanks wahoo88! I've been making my corniciones smaller with each pie. Check my first pies on the thread,  the edges were pretty huge. I do like the airy and puffy edge, but I am still going to go smaller till I get what is a typical NY style. After that, I will make them a little larger, I like them bones. It's a fun learning exercise. I shape my skins like the video in reply #44 of this thread. I hand shape it, but I don't hand slap it. I lift it with the back of my hands and stretch it. The dough stretches very easily, and have never had a tear. On this pie I formed the cornicione about a half inch from the edge of the dough. Maybe next time I will start about a quarter inch from the edge. I can see pretty well through the skin when I get it to size. I think I will try.090 TF on the my next try. I may have to adjust that because, I will have to compensate for a smaller cornicione. This pic may help is showing the edge thickness of this attempt.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 09:31:24 PM by nick57 »

Offline wahoo88

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2013, 10:00:04 PM »
Ok, yeah, that is a good-sized cornicione imho.  The one shot must have been of a bubble.  I like the bones as well, and make my pizzas with rather large ones.

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2013, 10:21:15 PM »
Thanks Dave. I see you like Neapolitan pizza, that was the first pizza style that got me started. Of course things did not work out so good with the home oven. Then I found this place. I love cracker crust pizza, and I learned so much here. I then moved onto NY style, and it's been a fun journey. I've got a long way to go, but I am heading in the right direction with the help from all my friends on the forum. My next pie lessons will be Chicago thin crust. 


Offline wahoo88

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2013, 08:55:20 AM »
Oh. I'll have to keep an eye out for that thread.  That is the next style that I want to try as well.  Again, I'm not the NY pizza expert here, but I do live close enough to NY to know what a good NY slice should be like, if not how to achieve it.  We have some good NY style joints around Baltimore.  Oklahoma seems to be the pizza wastelands, devoid of any particular style except for the ubiquitous thick American chain style. :(

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2013, 09:41:37 AM »
I have not had the pleasure to try a real NY pie. We have 3 places in town that sell that style. Mario's claim it, but they have two sizes, 14" and 16". We have all the chain stuff. Mazzio's is pretty popular. It's thin, but a little dense and chewy. We have a couple of places that sell Neapolitan style, and they are pretty good. I think most people in these parts think good pizzas are Papa Johns, Dominos, Ci, Ci's, Mazzio's, Papa Murphy's, and Pizza Hut. All of those places have crusts that seem too bread like and not crispy or thin. We have a new place I have not tried yet, it sells Chicago thin and deep crust pizzas. I think most people here have no idea what a good pie should taste like. I'm not so sure I do either. But, I like my pies better than the chain ones. I'm no great pie maker by any stretch of the imagination, it's just an indication how blah the pizzas are here.

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #92 on: June 30, 2013, 06:00:57 PM »
I made three major changes on this pie. I went for a TF of .085, left out the VWG, and I did not oil the ball before placing in the fridge. I kept the toppings minimal. I started with a layer of parm, then mozz, and I finished with pureed Classico crushed tomatoes.
  The finished pie was pretty good. It seemed to be very close in thickness to Mario's, and it was more crispy like Mario's The crust was not quite as chewy as my last pies. I made the Cornicione smaller this time also. The slices folded very easily.
This was a very nice tasting pie. I do think I used too much sauce this time, I'll cut back on the sauce on my next try. I really liked the thinness of the crust. The edges were crispy on the outside and slightly chewy on the inside.
I don't know if I could go any thinner, and this may be too thin for a NY pie, but I am happy with this result.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 06:06:36 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2013, 06:09:32 PM »
Side shot

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2013, 06:32:02 PM »
That's a winner right there Nick; really great looking pizza(never too much sauce for Bob).  ;)
All of these pies here have turned out well and I think you're doing excellent work dude! Thanks for posting your NY pizza's and trials.   :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2013, 06:51:17 PM »
Thanks Bob. When I pulled the pie, the top seemed really soupy. But after a 5 minute rest before cutting, it tightened up. I really like the flavor of the Classico sauce. I don't think I want to go any thinner. I don't know if it is too thin for NY pizza, but I really like the bite the crust had, it was a light and crispy. I still have some work to do to get the Cornicione the to the size I want. That means I get to experiment some more. Yea!

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2013, 08:22:48 PM »
Couple of more pics to illustrate the thickness or thinness of the pie. For a NY pie, is this OK, or should I be shooting for thinner, like.. .080, or .075?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 08:30:08 PM by nick57 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #97 on: June 30, 2013, 10:04:36 PM »
Nick,

You are doing fine. There is no harm in going to say, 0.075, on the thickness factor. That would be a natural progression from where you started your experiments at the top of this thread.

What size was the most recent pizza?

Peter

Offline nick57

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #98 on: June 30, 2013, 10:41:58 PM »
Thanks Pete. The dough ball weighed 320.25 grams. I used the dough calculator for a 14" pie. I stretched this one out to about 14 3/4". I think I could have gone a little bit bigger if I had a bigger stone and peel. I'll go for .075 next time. I really like the lightness and crispness of the crust. I liked it so much, that I consumed 3/4 of the pie. I wuz a bad boy!

Offline wahoo88

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Re: My first NY style
« Reply #99 on: July 01, 2013, 09:17:43 AM »
Personally, I think that this batch's TF is right on the money.  Too much thinner and there will be no airy-yet-chewy crust- it will become crackery.