Author Topic: Caputo with Naturkraft  (Read 2809 times)

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Offline bakeshack

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Caputo with Naturkraft
« on: April 09, 2013, 04:51:52 PM »
I was able to get my hands on the Naturkraft (lievito madre) by 5Stagioni.  This is their version of the new product released by Caputo (Criscito) but it has been around for quite some time. 

I made a Caputo dough and added 5% of flour weight with the Naturkraft.

100% Caputo
62% Water
5% Naturkraft
0.08% Cake Yeast
3% Salt

24 hrs bulk at 68-70F and 10 hrs ball at 70-72F. 

I noticed a slight improvement in flavor as well as a nice sweet fragrance from the crust.  It's not mind blowing in terms of the flavor difference.  I would say that this product will greatly help a dough with a much shorter fermentation schedule.  I have to do a few more experiments with it using different type of flours as well.






Online pizzaboyfan

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 05:10:00 PM »
http://www.italiangourmetonline.com/product_detail.asp?id=336

Naturkraft (Dried Mother Yeast Powder)

Naturkraft dried mother yeast powder is obtained by partially extracting the water from this dough to stabilize it and stop fermentation.

Advantages:

it makes dough easier to roll out
it helps dough mature sooner and keep longer
it has exceptionalresistance to high temperatures
it gives pizza an even, golden color with no burned edges
End Results:

a crysp fragrant pizza with the tipical flavor of mother yeast
a pizza base that remains crisp even when cold
a pizza extremely easy  to digest
 

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 05:11:46 PM »
I thought that the purpose of these products was to do away with any other yeast entirely.  Or not?

>>Nice pies <<
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Online pizzaboyfan

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 05:14:36 PM »
The link I posted wants 30.00 to ship the 8.50 bag of Naturkraft
Any other sources ?

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 05:32:07 PM »
I thought that the purpose of these products was to do away with any other yeast entirely.  Or not?

>>Nice pies <<

It is just a flavoring agent (from what I understand so far) and you still have to add yeast.

Online pizzaboyfan

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 06:08:48 PM »
Can you tell us where you purchased this ?

Perry

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2013, 06:18:23 PM »
Call me a purist or snob, but when did we start adding flavoring to NP dough?   ???
Pizza is not bread.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 06:54:04 PM »
Can you tell us where you purchased this ?

Perry

It's a sample I got from a distributor here in my area.  I believe the link you posted is the only source for retail.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 07:00:13 PM »
Call me a purist or snob, but when did we start adding flavoring to NP dough?   ???

I know, Craig.  I have just been curious about this product and I wanted to see what its about.  With this bake, it didn't add much in terms of flavor and/or texture.  It is certainly not giving out any complex sourdough type of flavor as well.  I would imagine those doing short fermentation will probably see better results from this. 

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 07:04:24 PM »
Call me a purist or snob, but when did we start adding flavoring to NP dough?   ???

I started wondering about this  when  Caputo introduced their version.


Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 05:11:56 PM »
I was able to get my hands on the Naturkraft (lievito madre) by 5Stagioni. . . .

Dear Marlon, thank you for sharing the results of your experiment with the Naturkraft. They are beautiful pizzas. I wonder if it is possible to develop over a period of time an actual sourdough culture just by mixing the Naturkraft with some water and flour. Does the package state the principal constituent microorganisms in the Naturkraft? Have a great day!

Omid
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http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 09:36:27 PM »
Sweet Heavens, Marlon!

Those pies are beautiful!!! :o

And don't think I don't see that loaf of bread cut in half , standing on end right behind those pies! I know you made that too...

For the life of me I still can't fathom the resolve, willpower, and manners of your guests!!! How do they NOT dive right into those pies the minute they come out of the oven???!!!???

I always love seeing your pies, even though are a constant reminder of how far I have to go..... and how much I have yet to learn......

Oh yeah, the Naturkraft stuff. You clearly don't need it. And who needs "A New Way to Make Pizza" anyway? You, clearly, do NOT.

Sigh.

John K
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Offline bakeshack

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2013, 12:56:17 PM »
Sweet Heavens, Marlon!

Those pies are beautiful!!! :o

And don't think I don't see that loaf of bread cut in half , standing on end right behind those pies! I know you made that too...

For the life of me I still can't fathom the resolve, willpower, and manners of your guests!!! How do they NOT dive right into those pies the minute they come out of the oven???!!!???

I always love seeing your pies, even though are a constant reminder of how far I have to go..... and how much I have yet to learn......

Oh yeah, the Naturkraft stuff. You clearly don't need it. And who needs "A New Way to Make Pizza" anyway? You, clearly, do NOT.

Sigh.

John K

John, thank you for the very kind words!  The country loaf is a staple in my house and I bake it once or twice a week.  My kids love it, which is great since  I have converted the formula to a 70% mix of ancient whole grains (kamut, spelt, & emmer) and still keep the crumb soft and light. 

Those pies in the picture were just leftover pizzas.  I always make extra dough for practice and freezing.  Btw, this pizza freezes very well and always comes in handy when you have that craving but didn't have the time to make dough or fire up the oven. 

I was able to successfully activate a live culture using the Naturkraft.  I just fed it with 100% water initially and then kept feeding it once a day with flour and water over the next 3-4 days until the culture was rising and falling consistently.  I will make pizza with it soon. 

Marlon

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2013, 01:21:22 PM »
I was able to successfully activate a live culture using the Naturkraft.  I just fed it with 100% water initially and then kept feeding it once a day with flour and water over the next 3-4 days until the culture was rising and falling consistently.  I will make pizza with it soon. 

Marlon

Marlon,

It would be intersting for you to start "side by side" starter cultures  --- one being made with just flour and water (no added yeast) and one with the Naturkraft and flour and water. As is well known, and shown very clearly in pictures in Willard's (2stone) posts, a starter can easily be made by just utilizing the yeasts floating in the air in your local environment.

I'd be interested in knowing the comparative differences between the two in terms of smell, "activity", and flavor at different points along the way.

John K
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 01:41:54 PM by Serpentelli »
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Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2013, 03:20:40 PM »
Very beautiful!  Why don't you mix up a bit of Naturkraft with some flour and water and leave it on the counter for a day and see what you get? Or did you already do this?  I bet it will give you a nice sourdough culture in no time at all. 

Regards,

TinRoof

PS: I just noticed Serpentelli's post so just consider this another vote for Serp's suggestion.   ^^^
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 03:22:19 PM by tinroofrusted »

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2013, 04:53:22 PM »
Thanks, Tinroof!  That is what I already did in my last post.  It became really active after 3 days of feeding. 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2013, 05:05:55 PM »
I saw a 5Stagioni Naturkraft package with the AVPN logo on it, and I was about to make a snotty comment wondering how much they had to pay AVPN to get their blessing for this stuff. Even if you think it slides in as a natural yeast, I don't remember the AVPN saying L-cysteine is OK. Then I looked and I see that they indeed do have two different formulations and the AVPN version in fact does not have L-cysteine. http://www.le5stagioni.it/Downloads/cataloghi/catENG.pdf

I can't find an ingredient statement for the Caputo version. Does anyone have it?

I hate to get all traditional sounding when when talking about Neapolitan pizza. After all it's just Neapolitan pizza and nothing to get romantic about or anything. I don't want anyone to accuse me of promoting and protecting "true Neapolitan pizza."  Wait, where have I read that? Why don't we have a tongue-in-cheek smiley?

All joking aside, AFAIAC this has no place in Neapolitan pizza. Which of the listed benefits can't be achieved through skill and process? Is it supposed to be good because it makes things easier? Replacing skill with easy had done so much good for the restaurant business. Oops, looks like I need that tongue-in-cheek smiley again. Where do you draw the line? Would natural liquid sourdough flavor be OK? Why not? How about naturally derived dough conditioners? Why not L-cysteine for that matter?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 07:29:19 AM »
I made the same question about this product, the AVPN told me that the NaturKraft (verace version) has no added supplements, just the the dehydrated sourdough. I also don't like the idea of a product with or without supplements.
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Offline thezaman

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2013, 11:34:22 AM »
 i just got two cases of it from my supplier compliments of Fred at Orlando foods. i am trying it today for a mobile wood fired job on Saturday night.ingredients on the label are Italian soft wheat flour type 0. it is acidified a livitro natural also called criscito. i think it is trying to mimic the use of old dough as da michele does. the directions say to use 50 grams per 1000 grams of flour. they say to leave the yeast quantity alone. during my visit last year antimo recommended a old dough or criscito percentage of 5 percent of flour amount. this corresponds with the package directions. i have been using 5 percent of a old dough that i keep going for all of my dough. i use the preferment calculator. this batch is straight dough calculator at 62 percent hydration.13788.03 flour and 675 grams of lievito naturale. will keep you informed of the results.
 

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Caputo with Naturkraft
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2013, 06:15:16 PM »
Which of the listed benefits can't be achieved through skill and process? Is it supposed to be good because it makes things easier? Replacing skill with easy had done so much good for the restaurant business. Oops, looks like I need that tongue-in-cheek smiley again. Where do you draw the line? Would natural liquid sourdough flavor be OK? Why not? How about naturally derived dough conditioners? Why not L-cysteine for that matter?

After using it for a couple of times, I don't really understand the benefit of this product.  There is no significant contribution that I noticed and it definitely did not make things easier for me at all.  In fact, if one is not careful with the amount (I only used 5% of flour as recommended), the dough becomes too wet/soft and very difficult to handle even with a 60-61% hydration Caputo dough.  I would think that the l-cysteine is the culprit for this effect but it certainly did not help me produce a superior product.