Author Topic: Sharing a Great Flour Find  (Read 830 times)

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Offline elpipetuanis

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Sharing a Great Flour Find
« on: April 10, 2015, 02:25:28 PM »
I want to pass on a great flour find. A while ago I was looking for a good replacement for the bread flour I was buying at Costco/Sam's Club. I didn't like that it was bleached etc. I wanted a good unbleached flour in 25-50 lb. bags and couldn't find anything close to me. That is until I found a lady close to where I live that does bulk ordering from Wheat Montana so I thought I would give their flour a try. Turns out its awesome.  It changed the way I looked at flour and its uses.

Wheat Montana has been mentioned on this forum only a few times in the very distant past. The flour I get from them is Wheat Montana Natural White Flour. They call it an "All Purpose" flour but its protein percentage is quite high (13.22%) and makes awesome pizzas but its also "soft" enough to be used in a variety of other foods like biscuits and pancakes, which I make frequently (I'm a breakfastaholic). It's unbleached and unbromated. Its slowly and finely ground, and the grind texture is very similar to the grind of Caputo Pizzeria 00. I prefer it over KABF. I think if you can find it, you would like it a lot. I also have bought their whole wheat flour and its great too.

I attached the spec sheet if you are interested.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 05:16:00 PM »
252 is a really low falling number. That's probably as low as you will ever see in flour used for baking.
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Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 05:45:51 PM »

252 is a really low falling number. That's probably as low as you will ever see in flour used for baking.

What is a good number for Neapolitan style pies?  This article says - The FN value has an inverse relationship with the alpha-amylase activity meaning the higher the alpha-amylase activity the lower the FN value, and vice-versa.

http://www.perten.com/Products/Falling-Number/Applications/Flour-milling-and-baking/

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 06:09:46 PM »
Both Caputo pizzeria and rinforzata are 350 +/-.  I would think that a low number could cause over-browning at Neapolitan temps.

I just noticed that it has malted barley flour listed as an enrichment, so maybe the falling number is about right.
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Offline elpipetuanis

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 06:14:08 PM »
What is a good number for Neapolitan style pies?  This article says - The FN value has an inverse relationship with the alpha-amylase activity meaning the higher the alpha-amylase activity the lower the FN value, and vice-versa.

http://www.perten.com/Products/Falling-Number/Applications/Flour-milling-and-baking/

This falling number an interesting topic I had never heard of before.

Both Caputo pizzeria and rinforzata are 350 +/-.  I would think that a low number could cause over-browning at Neapolitan temps.

I just noticed that it has malted barley flour listed as an enrichment, so maybe the falling number is about right.

I have had burnt under rims on some of my pies in my Blackstone but that could be just the Blackstones issue of the uneven heating of the bottom stone. Otherwise it has been great as far as pizzas are concerned. Although this weekend I am finally using Caputo Pizzeria in my dough. I will say so far its a whole different ball game.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 07:04:37 PM by elpipetuanis »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 06:21:28 PM »
A typical General Mills unbleached all-purpose flour has a falling number of around 225-275:

http://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=14439000

The GM Neapolitan pizza flour has a falling number of 325:

http://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=50237000

Peter

Offline caymus

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2015, 08:05:11 PM »
A typical General Mills unbleached all-purpose flour has a falling number of around 225-275:

http://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=14439000

The GM Neapolitan pizza flour has a falling number of 325:

http://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=50237000

Peter


Peter, 

No relationship between protein and falling number?

Thanks

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 08:06:07 PM »

Peter, 

No relationship between protein and falling number?

Thanks

No. It's about enzymes and damaged starch.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 08:14:03 PM »

Peter, 

No relationship between protein and falling number?

Thanks
caymus,

You can see how the falling number test is conducted under the Falling Number section of this document:

http://www.cooknaturally.com/detailed/detailed.html

There is no mention of protein as a factor so I would assume that it is not relevant to the test.

Peter


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 08:14:26 PM »
A typical General Mills unbleached all-purpose flour has a falling number of around 225-275:

That's only because it's malted, right? When I first looked at the spec, I didn't see malted barley flour when I looked at the ingredients. That's why I was surprised that the number was so low. It wasn't until later that I saw it listed as an enrichment. I don't think they would even mill wheat that would yield a falling number much below 300 non-malted. It would go into animal feed or some other non-baking use.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2015, 08:47:22 PM »
Craig,

Yes, the low falling number is due to the malt.

GM sells unmalted flours under their Sperry line but the specs at the GM website do not give the falling numbers. As we learned from the Tony G discussions, Giusto's also sells unbromated flours, including the well-known High Performer flour. King Arthur sells an unmalted organic high gluten flour. Hodgson Mill and Bob's Red Mill also sell unmalted flours. At one point, Weisenberger sold an unmalted all-purpose flour. I have not seen the specs for these flours but I would imagine that the companies would provide the falling numbers for their flours. I am confident that the falling numbers are on the high side.

Peter

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2015, 09:04:03 PM »
So is a higher falling number better for NP pizza or for all pizza? 

As I understand it, the higher the number, the lower the enzyme and the slower the fermentation (all things being equal).

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2015, 09:17:23 PM »
To an extent. Anything over 400 is too high for baking.
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Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2015, 09:27:35 PM »
Is falling number even an issue to consider for commercially made flours?  Major manufacturers likely make sure the falling number is in the correct range.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2015, 09:42:37 PM »
PrimeRib,

If we are to assume that a Neapolitan style pizza should be made using a 00 flour, then you really need to discuss the relationship of damaged starch and the enzymes (alpha amylase) that work on damaged starch. I took a stab at explaining this relationship at Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17555.msg179560;topicseen#msg179560 . In the case of 00 flour, you don't want to do something like adding malt to it not only because the malt would lead to an overly wet or sticky dough but also because that would render the dough unusable at very high oven temperatures because of the excessive sugar level that would lead to burning at such temperatures.

By contrast, in the U.S., most domestic white flours have more damaged starch than 00 flours, so malting such flours is common to increase enzyme performance. But, because of the malting in these cases, the doughs cannot be baked at very high oven temperatures.

So, to answer your question, I would say that a high falling number is a necessity for the Neapolitan style pizza when made with 00 flour. At lower oven temperatures, malted flours make it possible to make many other types of pizzas that can be baked at the lower oven temperature without burning them.

The second sentence of your post is correct. I discuss related aspects in the post cited above.

Peter

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Sharing a Great Flour Find
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2015, 11:08:25 PM »
I have made whole wheat crusts using their wheat flour and it did not require any blending.  The crust was very good in a NY style crust.


 

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