Author Topic: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented  (Read 1353 times)

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Offline Francois.du.nord

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And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« on: April 12, 2013, 11:21:00 PM »
Howdy! Fran here.

Just found this site last Monday night, and I've been spending quite a bit of my evenings since (now Friday) exploring. Although I've been making pizzas for some time, I'm a rank amateur compared to the members here. I like to eat and so cook frequently. 5 or so years ago I started baking bread, and I've been a home brewer since the early 1990s.

As an ex-Chicagoan, I certainly know and appreciate a real deep dish pie. Nancy's stuffed was a frequent treat, as were Malnati's, UNO and Due. Monday night after lamenting a marginal MN offering I googled Home Run Inn Butter Crust, found this site and was hooked. Nite before last I decided I'd try to make a Malnati's clone this weekend.

After a couple of shopping trips yesterday and today, I had the basics for a credible attempt.  I'll post my progress here.

Thanks for your encouragement!

Best, Fran


Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 11:54:07 PM »
I used BTB's Malnati's recipe with Semolina as listed in his post # 194 in the "Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina" thread.

As mentioned, here are the ingredients.  What you can't see behind the fresh home made Italian sausage is the Boars Head sliced pepperoni. I'm using a 9" cake pan, just because it is in the cabinet.  As you can see, I've found a couple of different tomato base's, think I'm going to try the Eden, just because I think as diced will add a bit more texture.

After some research, I decided to sift the King Arthur, just to get the finest flour. My sources indicate that the more fully you can surround the flour with the oil, the less the water can penetrate and start gluten formation. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 11:57:07 PM by Francois.du.nord »

Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 12:02:29 AM »
This is the King Arthur flour and Bob's Red Mill semolina mixed with the butter, corn and olive oils. Note how the flour has turned to a beautiful yellow color.  No cornmeal added, so another rumor bites the dust.

The texture is silky and smooth. This is all new to me, but it seems to be working out fairly well.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 01:41:35 PM by Francois.du.nord »

Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 12:07:51 AM »
And now I've added the water and IDY. Those of you who were paying attention saw that I had the KA mixer in the first shot.  After seeing exactly how little flour there was in the mix after scaling, I decided to mix by hand, and thus the mixing bowl in the previous post.

A moment of concern when it seemed like WAY too much moisture. As i mixed, it absorbed and got to be a very compliant dough.  I kneaded for 90 seconds or so, and then put it into this bowl for a rest in the fridge tonight. 

Tomorrow I'll tackle the sauce and construct the pie.  Thanks for looking!

Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 02:24:32 PM »
Sitting down to leftovers for lunch ;D, and I figured that I'd update this thread.

My overall impressions are that this pie was a very credible first attempt. I'll need to refine a few things but fwiw here are some thoughts and hints, particularly for others new to Chicago style deep dish.

Crust was amazing. I used a 9" pan and this recipe: 
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg87497.html#msg87497 (Reply # 194 on P10 of the Malnati's crust discussion).

The purpose of refrigerated ferment is to slow the yeast and allow flavor development with a slower rise.  Dough was refrigerated for 15 hours with a degassing at 12 hours (at that point ball had not doubled in size).  I then moved to room temp for 6 hours for further rise.  I punched down at ball double 3 times during the warm rise. This is more on an as needed basis than a prescription. I had NO issues with the dough 'weeping' oil as I've seen in other posts.

As the oven and stone were preheating (500 for 1 hour), I started making the pie.  As you can see here, the dough came out very nice, but a bit less like the pie crust in BTB's images. I wonder if it is because I oiled the flour prior to the addition of water.

Still haven't quite figured out how to get images into the text in multiple spots, but gimme a break, I'm a newbie!

For my cheese layer I went with Whole Foods Organic Sliced Low moisture part skim mozz (6 slices @ 1oz  each) and chunked some quality Wisconsin mozz too (another 3-4 oz?).

Toppings: I used Boars Head sandwich size pepperoni, and it was only OK.  I also added a couple of thin slices of sweet onion, an ounce or two of mushrooms, and a 1/4 cup (far less than shown in the pic) of red pepper.

I went with 1.5 cups of the Eden diced tomatoes. Out of the can they were slightly acidic but with very good fresh tomato taste.  I pureed 1 cup and left half a cup diced for a chunky texture. <edit 4/15/2013> I did not drain the tomatoes, but will next time Thanks Jackie!</edit> I spiced with a dozen or so components, but I won't share that here as I need to tinker a bit. I did it a cold sauce, microwaving the moistened spices, and minced a 1/4 cup or so of yellow onion and 2 medium cloves of garlic. Sauted for a couple of minutes in 2 T EVO. All spices were stirred into the sauce and refrigerated for 3 hours.

Next post will show the final product.





« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 02:01:29 PM by Francois.du.nord »

Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 02:34:54 PM »
I had my rack and stone on the bottom grate in my oven, and put a sheet of aluminum foil reflective side down 7 inches over the bottom rack.  After preheat, I turned the oven down to 420 and put the pie in the oven.

After about 5 minutes I realized I had forgotten the parm for the top, so quickly grated a bit and sprinkled it on while trying to avoid burning myself and letting all the heat out of the oven. Not a real even distribution as you can see.

I rotated the pie 180 degrees at 12 minutes, and 90 at 20 minutes.  I turned on convection for the last 10 minutes of the bake, and cooked for a total of 27 minutes. 

A couple pictures to show the end result.  All in all a very good start.  Thank you to all for your assistance. this site is a treasure. I hope that I can contribute and help others who want to make a better pizza.

Best, Fran

« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 02:38:13 PM by Francois.du.nord »

Offline FLAVORMAN

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 03:39:49 PM »
WoW...Looks great..I have never mixed the oils alone with the flours...Does is really make a difference....Great Job and welcome to the site you look like a pro already....

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 03:40:11 PM »
Very nice.  Good job. You could probably drain the tomatoes a bit next time so they weep less.

Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 04:41:41 PM »
Flav: because this was my first crust, I can't say whether mixing oil first makes a difference or not. I read somewhere that because oil & water don't mix, getting the oil into the flour first made for a more uniform product. I saw some other posts here that after refrigeration oils were dripping out of the dough. not with this test anyway.

Jackie: thanks for the pointer. I need to get a better strainer but will do that prior to my next batch.

I appreciate the critique and pointers. I've got a lot to learn, but my first lesson is in the books.

Best, Fran

Offline pythonic

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2013, 10:17:20 PM »
Fran Tarkenton?  Just kidding being the Chicago native that you are.  I wanted to give you kudos on your first attempt.  I will have to trying mixing the oil first as well to see how it comes out.  How were the tomatoes you used?  Any comparison to the ones Lou's uses?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline Trinity

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2013, 03:05:11 AM »
And I thought this thread was going to be about Babylon 5.... hehehe
It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2013, 12:22:26 PM »
Faaantastic Fran!!  :chef:

As soon as I started reading your first post here I knew this was going to be good..it sounds like you've been around a time or 2 when it comes to pizzamaking and this was a fun read...thanks.  :)

Bob
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Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2013, 01:58:20 PM »
Yo Nate!

Although I still have a soft spot in my heart for da Monsters, I'm now dyed in the wool Purple. That other Fran was long gone from the field before my arrival on the Tundra, but he is still treated like royalty around here. 

As I said above, I've done a bunch of bread, and after having worried about getting gluten and window pane, now for this project I'm trying to avoid it. I read somewhere that you get better oil absorption into the flour if you mix the oil by itself without the water, and that the oil then inhibits the formation of the gluten, so I figured I'd give it a shot.  Based upon the initial results, I will definitely use the oil-first method on my next one too.  I've got a couple of ideas to 'Fran-itize' the dough recipe, will keep all posted as the process (and taste) develops.

Trinity: I don't know anything about that, I will just refer you to the representatives of the Alliance who will shortly be at your home asking for further details.

Chi-Bob: Thanks for the kind comments.  While true that I've had pies in and out of the oven on many occasions, it has all been self taught, and nothing of the caliber shown by the average poster here. On the good side of the ledger, I've got enough of the basics down so that with any luck I won't have total disaster.  On the bad side, I'm a bit light in the equipment area.  My scale is an old spring model that probably has me + or - 5 grams; tenths is a pipe dream. No laser guided temperature probes, so I have none of the details that the masters here bring to their posts.

That said tho, I've got some ideas and a strong willingness to learn. If I need a knock upside the head because I'm clearly running outside the base path, please let me have it.

Thanks one and all for the guidance and help!







Offline pythonic

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2013, 02:44:10 PM »
Fran,

I live near Chicago myself but I bleed purple myself.  Good luck with your deep dish trial and errors.  I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread as Malnatis makes my favorite deep dish.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 10:42:40 PM »
Pythonic: Two of my siblings still live in the Chicago suburbs, so I get back from time to time, and my daughter is doing some research at U of C.  My ma grew up in Maywood and so we've got cousins around etc.

Came back for some family business a couple of months ago, met my bro at the airport and while waiting for sis's pick up I said: Man I'm hungry, let's get a Pizza before we do anything else.  Stopped by Malnati's in Schaumburg for a nice pie and a pitcher. 

I'll probably get mugged on this board for this but: I think Ponder is the real deal. He's streaky, but with another season he could be on the way to greatness. We can only hope.

Best, Fran

Offline pythonic

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2013, 07:11:21 PM »
Fran,

Do you think this dough could go 40hrs in the fridge to develop more flavor?

I hate to disagree with you but I don't see any pocket presence from Ponder.   He leaves to early and tries to run.  His downfield passing is lower in accuracy too.   He doesn't slide in the pocket to buy himself time to hit his WRs.  We finally have a good route runner this year with Jennings so we will find out alot about him this year.  Hopefully he can change my mind.

Nate
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 07:16:08 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2013, 08:28:02 PM »
Pythonic, My apologies, I didn't see your response :-[  I've been here, but working on other issues as to be seen next.

I would say that if you want to leave this dough in the fridge for 40 hrs, that would be OK.  I would use ice cold water, and not bloom the yeast.  What you are trying to do with a cold ferment is to slow everything down.  I'll probably get some crap here from others, but in France, the ancient style of bread (Pain a l'Anccienne  precursor to what we now call a French loaf) they use ice cold water and refrigerate.  The overnight fermentation is slower and allows the starches to break down into more sugars. From Reinhart's awesome book The Bread Baker's Apprentice:

"The technique by which this bread is made has tremendous implication for the baking industry....The unique delayed fermentation method, which depends on ice-cold water releases flavors trapped in flour in a way different from the more traditional 12-stage method.  The final product has a natural sweetness and nutlike character...."

Are you looking to work with flavor, or are you just looking to make in advance? 

As to Ponder, I would agree, he does have some happy feet, but I hope that some of that is because he got his clock cleaned a couple of times last season, and he's still learning the system. 


Offline pythonic

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Re: And so it begins.....Newbies first attempt documented
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 01:08:05 PM »
Fran,

Here was my latest attempt.  I'd give it a 9.5.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24708.0.html

Vikes had an excellent draft!

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


 

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