Author Topic: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata  (Read 1501 times)

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Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2013, 08:43:59 PM »
Marlon, Diana, Johnny, and John,

Thank you so much for the ideas, suggestions, and encouragement!  I have two or three things I will do differently next time! 

John K
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2013, 07:51:46 AM »
I found this bag of Divella Durum Wheat Semolina while I was cleaning at market.  I wonder if this bag of flour would be too old, or not the right kind of Semolina to use to make dough.  The flour is really outdated. 

Norma
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2013, 10:23:17 AM »
Give it a 'sniff test'! If it's rancid you'll know right away, I can smell and taste rancid WAYYY before others that think it's fine, yuck! If it doesn't have that rancid smell or taste (finger dip test) I'd use it.

jon
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2013, 10:24:51 AM »
Norma,

It looks like you have hard wheat semolina, and not fine remilled semolina flour.

You'll get pretty close, the flavor should be very good, but I don't think you'll be able to achieve the same open texture as with the finer semolina flour. Those Divella 500gm bags are sealed very good, if you open it and things smell and look normal I say give it a shot! 80-85% hydration will work well. You may want to taste a bit as well, before committing it to use.  ;)

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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2013, 10:26:04 AM »
Give it a 'sniff test'! If it's rancid you'll know right away, I can smell and taste rancid WAYYY before others that think it's fine, yuck! If it doesn't have that rancid smell or taste (finger dip test) I'd use it.

jon

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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2013, 11:17:12 AM »
Jon and Johnny the Gent,

Thanks for the idea to do a sniff test and a taste test.  ;) I never thought of doing that before.  Johnny, thanks for also telling me you think my bag of Semola di Grano Duro is the hard wheat semolina and not the fine remilled semolina flour.  I think Matthew also told me that before when I tried that flour.

I will give it a shot if it is okay. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2013, 01:20:55 PM »
I smelled and tasted the Divella Semola di Grano Duro flour and it smelled and tasted okay.  I made a Detroit style dough with the Semola di Grando Duro flour and the Occident flour 60/40 with the formulation at the beginning of this thread, except I used IDY.  The dough came together well with a rest period and another mix in the Kitchen Aid mixer.  I did use Grapeseed Oil, but didn't use any salt.

Norma
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2013, 03:43:59 PM »
Good to hear that the semolina is still serviceable  ;)

Curious, did you perform any stretch and folds or did you just mix in the KA mixer? Let us know how it comes out!
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2013, 07:32:25 PM »
Good to hear that the semolina is still serviceable  ;)

Curious, did you perform any stretch and folds or did you just mix in the KA mixer? Let us know how it comes out!

Johnny the Gent,

I will wait and see how the pizza bakes first to see if the semolina was okay. 

I didn't have to do any stretch and folds, but did let the water and flours sit for a little before the mix was started.  The dough was a little sticky, but not more than when I use 75% hydration on the Detroit style doughs.  I don't know if from the semolina being older if that helped somewhat with not needing stretch and folds or not.

If I find time tonight or tomorrow morning I will mix another dough with salt.  I am going to bake at market in the small steel pan.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2013, 07:28:46 AM »
I did mix the same dough, using the same amounts of flours as before with Celtic light-gray sea salt last evening.  The Celtic sea salt was first dissolved in the formula water because it is coarse.  The first photo shows the dough after the first mix with the flat beater.  The second photo shows how the dough becomes stronger after the 20 minute rest period before the second mix.  The third photo is of the dough ball and the fourth photo is both dough balls this morning.  The dough ball that was mixed last evening is now smooth on the top of the dough ball.

Norma
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2013, 10:47:12 PM »
Thanks for keeping us posted Norma, from what I could see from the bottom of the containers your doughballs seem to have the same amount of activity- as my dough after 48 hours.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2013, 06:13:25 AM »
Thanks for keeping us posted Norma, from what I could see from the bottom of the containers your doughballs seem to have the same amount of activity- as my dough after 48 hours.

Johnny,

I used 0.70 % IDY so I think my dough balls will be fermented pretty much until later today.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2013, 08:53:32 AM »
Johnny,

Thanks for your help on this thread with me trying the Divella Semola di Grano Duro flour to make the two Detroit style pizzas.  The two Detroit style pizzas turned out good.  The crumb was good and the bottom crunch was still there, but was different in that the bottom crust didn't look as brown.  I think the bottom crunch was better than my normal Detroit style pizzas.  The taste of the crust was also good. 

The first DS pizza was dressed with cheese, Canadian bacon, (that I purchased at market) ripe pineapple tidbits, (purchased at market) sauce and grated Romano cheese.  The second DS pizza was dressed with Roland's Extra Strong Dijon Mustard, cheese, sliced meat balls, sauce and a dusting of grated Romano cheese after the bake. 

Norma
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2013, 06:50:31 AM »
Norma,

You're very welcome! Glad to see you got some use out of the thread.  The crumb looks delicious, and it sounds like the pies came out good and flavorful. As to the bottom color - I'm sure a few more minutes would have done the trick  - or maybe that would have resulted in the toppings being overcooked? For what it's worth, I usually bake my "pan pies/pizza in teglia" on the bottom rack at 300 degrees celsius. 

Ah - and I especially like the sound of the pie with the Roland's Extra Strong Dijon Mustard and meat balls - I bet that pie tasted great!  :chef:

J
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 09:04:56 PM by Johnny the Gent »
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2013, 07:40:17 AM »
I'm currently making some dough, so as per Serpentelli's request I'll be taking some pics along the way to show how the dough looks during the different stages.

1st photo: 2 minutes after incorporating all the semola rimacinata, with the yeast and water. All mixing done in a stainless steel bowl with a wooden spoon. Very rough and coarse looking.

2nd photo taken at the 3 minute mark: still just mixing with the spoon. I'm able to pinch and raise the dough between my fingers and lift the dough about 1 1/2", but the dough tears as it's still rough and not fully hydrated.

3rd and 4th photo taken at the 4 minute mark, after some more easy mixing.

At this point, I cover the bowl and let it rest for 10-15 minutes.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 09:05:15 PM by Johnny the Gent »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2013, 07:51:43 AM »
Johnny,

The pies made with the semolina were good and the bottom crust was crisp.  My guess is the semolina browns differently, but I really don't know.  This thread did get me to try a higher hydration.

Norma
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Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2013, 07:59:54 AM »
I'm currently making some dough, so as per Serpentelli's request I'll be taking a some pics along the way to show how the dough looks during the different stages.

1st photo: 2 minutes after incorporating all the semola rimacinata, with the yeast and water. All mixing done in a stainless steel bowl with a wooden spoon. Very rough and coarse looking.

2nd photo taken at the 3 minute mark: still just mixing with the spoon. I'm able to pinch and raise the dough between my fingers and lift the dough about 1 1/2", but the dough tears as it's still rough and not fully hydrated.

3rd and 4th photo taken at the 4 minute mark, after some more easy mixing.

At this point, I cover the bowl and let it rest for 10-15 minutes.

Johnny,

Thank you! Your semolina is a very oviously different product than mine, given the difference in appearance between your pics and my prior efforts, taking into account that I am using your recipe. Much more in the way of gluten development!

Please post pics of the shape and size of your loaf as it rises!

I would also love to see your dutch oven technique --- if you are able, please include a pic of how you transfer it to a preheated dutch oven from its pre-bake location.

Happy Saturday!

John K
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2013, 08:29:11 AM »
Lost track of time - so dough actually rested for 20 minutes.

 I transferred the dough to a flat surface lightly dusted with semola rimacinata for kneading.  My kneading technique is a bit funky - I basically plunge my fist into a corner of the dough, and in one smooth motion twist counter-clockwise while quickly lifting my fist out of the dough. I work my way around the entire dough's perimeter, then work my way towards the middle. This all takes about 2 minutes. Now it's time to add the salt. I sprinkle the salt over the dough, and repeat the fist-twist kneading for another 2 minutes.

1st photo: dough has been quickly kneaded for 2 minutes per the above description with salt sprinkled over it. It's already considerable smoother in appearance.

After kneading in the salt, I use a different kneading technique. Basically I grab a handful of dough and lift the dough as high as possible before tearing (between 12 and 18") and plunge the dough back into the doughmass. Observation: I use a heavy steel pan as a kneading surface to ease clean up , and if I don't moisten the top of the marble counter to create a seal between the counter top and the pan the dough would lift the entire baking pan into the air. This is done for about 3 minutes, until I see the gluten threads are getting long and strong.

2nd and 3rd photo illustrates the "accordian kneading" procedure described above:

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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2013, 09:19:52 AM »
After another 10 minute rest period, the dough mass is easily stretched to fill the pan, and stretched and folded.

Rinse and repeat - two more stretch and fold sessions, and this dough was ready to be divided, reballed and left to ferment in the fridge for 24 hours.

Here's the formula I used this time around (less hydration than the formula in the OP, and IDY instead of CY):

Divella Semola rimacinata di grano duro (100%):    800.26 g  |  28.23 oz | 1.76 lbs
Water (80%):    640.21 g  |  22.58 oz | 1.41 lbs
IDY (.5%):    4 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.33 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
Sea salt (2%):    16.01 g | 0.56 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.87 tsp | 0.96 tbsp
Grapeseed oil (1%):    8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.78 tsp | 0.59 tbsp
Total (183.5%):   1468.48 g | 51.8 oz | 3.24 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   734.24 g | 25.9 oz | 1.62 lbs

I actually made 2 balls of different weight - one weighing 600 grams (for pizza  :pizza:), and another weighing around 820 (for bread). I lost a bit of weight due to unaccounted for bowl residue :-\

Serpentelli - I'll be sure to post pics as I move along, making sure to include pics of the dough as it ferments in the fridge, proofs after final shaping, and the dutch oven technique. Time to go for a jog with the dog! Happy Saturday to you as well! ;D
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 01:10:32 PM by Johnny the Gent »
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Pane di semola di grano duro remacinata
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2013, 09:29:56 AM »
Here are the last couple folds, and how the dough mass looks after:
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