Author Topic: Dough sticking to pizza screen  (Read 1177 times)

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Offline Scagnetti

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Dough sticking to pizza screen
« on: April 19, 2013, 01:32:17 PM »
I've been making this pie for years, and for the first time ever, I had two pies stick to the screens.

Here's the scenario.
- Preheated oven for 1 hour at 525 degrees
- Three 16" pizzas on screens were put in at one time on three different oven racks
- The pizzas were lightly dressed with varying toppings such as sauce, mozzarella, fresh mushrooms, sliced olives, and sausage.
- The pizzas stuck to the screens towards the middle of the screens. The edges were fine.

Flour (100%):    353.1 g  |  12.46 oz | 0.78 lbs       
Water (63%):    222.46 g  |  7.85 oz | 0.49 lbs       
IDY (.25%):    0.88 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.29 tsp | 0.1 tbsp       
Salt (1.75%):    6.18 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.11 tsp | 0.37 tbsp       
Olive Oil (1%):    3.53 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp       
Sugar (1%):    3.53 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp       
Vital Wheat Gluten (2.5%):    8.83 g | 0.31 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.19 tsp | 1.06 tbsp       
Total (169.5%):   598.51 g | 21.11 oz | 1.32 lbs | TF = 0.105

I'm making these same pizzas this weekend and I'm concerned this sticking problem will happen again.

Any suggestions on how to prevent the sticking problem?


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 01:42:26 PM »
Scag,

Are the screens the same ones you have been using right along, and well seasoned, or are they new screens? And was the dough that you used normal in all respects?

Peter

Offline Scagnetti

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 01:54:01 PM »
Peter,

I'm using the same screens that I've always used.

The dough was a little different in that it had expanded more than usual after being refrigerated for 3 days.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 02:16:24 PM »
Scag,

There is nothing in the dough formulation you posted to suggest that there would be a problem after three days of cold fermentation. That said, I can only think of a couple of things that might have been responsible. The first is that there may have been a weighing error that resulted in a higher hydration value, such as making a mistake in weighing out the flour or the water. Making a mistake with the amount of yeast (too much) could also cause the dough to ferment much faster. The second possibility is that the dough was overfermented. You would have detected this condition if the dough was wet or damp or clammy, and the dough would be materially more extensible than normal. Usually, the cause of an unexpected overfermentation, especially when all of the ingredients were used in the correct amounts, is a material temperature change. Examples would be an above average finished dough temperature before placing the dough into the refrigerator, a malfunctioning refrigerator (not cooling properly), or letting the dough sit too long before using, especially if the room temperature is high. I know that you live in the Dallas area and, as you most likely saw this week, our outdoor temperatures got over 90 degrees. That could easily translate into an indoor temperature of over 80 degrees.

Hopefully what you experienced was an aberration that won't be repeated. With outdoor temperature dropping into the 40s and 50s the last two days, at least those temperatures shouldn't affect your next batch of dough.

Peter

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2013, 02:35:52 PM »
Scag;
You mention that you put three pizzas into the oven all at the same time. Is this normal practice for you? I mention this because the center of the pizza is the last part to get baked. If you overloaded the oven, and slowed the bake (possible to probable in a home oven) the longer bake at a now lower temperature might allow the dough to be forced down and into the screen openings, hence when the dough finally expands and bakes it is effectively locked onto the screen. You might be able to get a feel for this if you look at the center section where each pizza stuck to the screen. Was the dough inside of the screen openings, or was it merely sticking to the top surface of the screen? Also, look at the bottom of the pizzas, if they exhibited a tendency to flow into the screen, the bottom of the pizzas will have a somewhat nubby appearance.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Scagnetti

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2013, 02:51:49 PM »
Peter,

I think I've gotten a little sloppy measuring some of the ingredients, especially the yeast and VWG.

I've always weighed all of my ingredients but recently I've been using measuring spoons and not weighing the yeast, VWG, sugar, salt and oil.

I know I added too much yeast with the dough batch that had the sticking problem but on my scale, and it is a decent one, it's hard to weigh just 1 gram of yeast. I have to fiddle with it and then eyeball the amount to make sure it's right.

I carefully measured each ingredient that went into the current dough batch that is now in my refrigerator. I will remain hopeful and will make sure everyone has plenty of wine in them before I serve the pizza!

I know what you are talking when it comes to the temperatures and that is one of the reasons I rarely make pizzas during the summer time. In my early days, I wrecked many a dough ball due to a warm house but I've never had this sticking problem.

As an aside, I went to Jimmy's today on a cheese-sausage-Pastene-tomatoes run, and that is now the only place in Dallas proper where I can find my favorite mozzarella: Polly-O Whole Milk Mozzarella. Tom Thumb and Central Market used to carry it but I can't find it there anymore.

Offline Scagnetti

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2013, 03:03:53 PM »
Scag;
You mention that you put three pizzas into the oven all at the same time. Is this normal practice for you? I mention this because the center of the pizza is the last part to get baked. If you overloaded the oven, and slowed the bake (possible to probable in a home oven) the longer bake at a now lower temperature might allow the dough to be forced down and into the screen openings, hence when the dough finally expands and bakes it is effectively locked onto the screen. You might be able to get a feel for this if you look at the center section where each pizza stuck to the screen. Was the dough inside of the screen openings, or was it merely sticking to the top surface of the screen? Also, look at the bottom of the pizzas, if they exhibited a tendency to flow into the screen, the bottom of the pizzas will have a somewhat nubby appearance.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
No this is not a normal practice for me but I've successfully have done it before. Now the crusts never come out like I really want them to but for most people who aren't as particular as we pizza folks are, it's fine.

I have considered the 3-pies-in-the-oven-at-once as a cause of the sticking problem because there is no way all of the pies are going to get enough heat to be properly cooked but I'm a strong believer of putting all of the food to be served out at the same time and that's why I do it.

If they stick again, I will take notice of how the dough has stuck to the screen.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 03:16:05 PM »
Scag,

Unless there is a reason to do so, such as for an experiment with controls, my practice is to weigh only the flour and water (and oil if there is a lot of it). For the rest of the ingredients, I use volume measurements, such as those indicated by the dough calculating tools.

I did not think that your skins would stick to the screens because I estimated that your formula hydration was really closer to 61.5%. That is because of the addition of the vital wheat gluten. Actually, your hydration value was even lower (perhaps below 60%) because VWG has different absorption characteristics than flour. Normally, when one uses VWG, it is advisable to add more water to the dough--about 1 1/2 times the weight of the VWG. You didn't indicate what kind of flour you are using, but you might want to keep this point in mind for future reference.

Peter

Offline Scagnetti

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 03:26:08 PM »
I'm using KABF.

Next time I'll try the "add more water to the dough--about 1 1/2 times the weight of the VWG"


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2013, 03:27:48 PM »
Scag,

Please let us know how things turn out. That is how we all learn.

Peter


Offline Scagnetti

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2013, 03:34:18 PM »
I will.

I'm cooking these pies Sunday night.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2013, 09:03:45 AM »
Scag;
Here's a little trick that we use in the lab when we need to weigh an ingredient that is outside of the calibrated limit of the scale. For example, say your scale only weights in 2-gram increments but you need only 1-gram for your dough. Weigh the two grams and put it into, say two cups of water (could be tablespoons, teaspoons, etc.) now just divide the water equally into two containers, each container will contain half of the amount you weighed. VWG is another ingredient that can be problematic, in this case just delete 50-grams of flour from your dough. Now scale 100-grams of flour and place it into container that can be lidded, scale twice the amount of VWG that you need to add and place it into the flour, apply the lid and shake well to get a uniform mixture, now all you need to do is to divide the flour/VWG mixture in half and you have added the correct amount of VWG and also replenished the 50-grams of flour that you deleted from the formula. Keep the other half of the flour/VWG mixture for the next time you make pizza.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Scagnetti

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 02:46:03 PM »
Well I made these pizzas on Sunday night and I had absolutely no sticking problem whatsoever.

I did take particular care not to press down on the middle of the pies when I was dressing them. I don't know if that made any difference.

It takes surprisingly long to cook three 16" pizzas at once in a home oven. Anyway, I checked the pies after 5 minutes and none of them had stuck to their screen so I knew I was OK after that.

Tom, thank you for your measuring trick. I can see how that would solve my weighing problem.

Thanks everybody for your help.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 03:54:47 PM »
Scag,
You can always use the parchment paper trick. You yank the paper out from between the screen and pizza after several minutes of baking.

Bob
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Dough sticking to pizza screen
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 09:53:38 PM »
Or just use pans.  Especially when doing volume in the oven, I use pans with a low temp oil generously applied.  Give them a few then take them off the pans.  I only have 2 racks, but 2 at a time is not a problem (4 if I use both ovens, but I usually reserve the top one for broiler "finish" duty).