Author Topic: Gino's East Style Pizza  (Read 8120 times)

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Offline foodblogger

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Gino's East Style Pizza
« on: January 24, 2006, 01:53:22 PM »
Hi everyone,
I just discovered the forum.† This is a great resource and I wish I had discovered it years earlier.† I am a Chicago native and I moved away.† I have spent the last 10 years trying to duplicate the Gino's taste.† I think I have come pretty close.† If you are interested in my recipe/techniques check this out:

http://damngoodfood.blogspot.com/2005/12/ginos-east-pizza-recipe.html


Offline buzz

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2006, 02:39:41 PM »
No corn meal in Gino's recipe! Also, they use 95% corn oil and 5% extra virgin olive oil. I don't personally like the taste of corn oil, so I use canola. Nice looking pizza you have there!

Offline buzz

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2006, 02:40:31 PM »
Oh, sorry--I see you have the small amount of olive oil listed!

Offline buzz

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2006, 02:45:38 PM »
You might want to experiment with a much shorter knead (2 minutes) to achieve the biscuit-like crust that Chicago deep dish is known for.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2006, 02:48:26 PM »
foodblogger,

Welcome to the forum.

Maybe you have already discovered some of the threads on the Gino's East deep-dish, but several of our members have been trying for some time to replicate the Gino's deep-dish. See, for example, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1211.0.html. (A search on the forum will produce other threads.)

As buzz has noted, the Gino's pizza does not include cornmeal. How did you come to use it? Also, what kind of flour do you use in your recipe? And do you miss the salt in the crust?

There are quite a few good deep-dish recipes on the forum. I hope you will get a chance to try some of them.

Peter

Offline foodblogger

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2006, 03:48:49 PM »
Howdy again,
Its been a while since I ate at Gino's, in fact the last time I ate there it was located on Superior Street by Northwestern Medical School.  They have since moved over to Rush Street or something like that.  I have heard a lot of people saying that Gino's doesn't use corn meal.  I have no idea what kind of pizza they are making now, but when I used to eat at Gino's there was a small amount of corn meal in the crust.  There wasn't a huge amount but it was in there.  When I lived in Chicago I knew that I would be moving away so the early experimentation with my recipe was done while I had access to Gino's Pizza.  The recipe may have changed in the past few years, but I based my recipe on what Gino's tasted like when it was on Superior Street.

As far as what kind of flour I use, I have always assumed that Gino's used Hotel and Restaurant grade flour or the cheapest flour they could get their hands on.  I usually just use a store brand all purpose flour and go from there.

About the 95%/5% corn oil to olive oil ratio - that may very well be true, but in the small batches I make (one pizza) I have found that it doesn't make a huge difference if you do it my way (1/3 cup corn oil to 1 T olive oil) or if you actually go to the trouble of mixing up based on volume% etc.

Another thing I have found in my experimentation is that oven temperature and position in the oven makes a huge difference on how your pizza turns out.  Even at Gino's, it depended on what time of the day you were getting pizza how your pizza was going to be.  I personally liked the pizza when the crust was done but not hard-cooked (like a biscuit) and when the cheese was thoroughly melted and just starting to brown.  I get these results in my oven by baking at 375 with the pizza on the middle rack.  If you wanted a crispier crust you could turn the oven temp up a bit and lower the pizza in the oven.

As far as the kneed times, I think you are getting at the fact that with short kneed times you will get a harder, more biscuit textured crust like they serve at the Downtown location of Uno's.  I use shorter kneed times when I am trying to achieve that result, for instance when I am making an Uno's or Lou Malnotti's style pizza.  When I used to eat at Gino's (again the superior street location) the crust was more bready, like my recipe turns out.

I don't really miss the salt in the crust when I am making Gino's, but when I make other pizzas I add salt.

One question I have that I am currently researching is how Giordano's gets their crust to taste so flaky like a pie crust.  I have noticed that their crust is a little drier as well.  Any suggestions?

Offline Steve

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2006, 03:52:20 PM »
One question I have that I am currently researching is how Giordano's gets their crust to taste so flaky like a pie crust.† I have noticed that their crust is a little drier as well.† Any suggestions?

Look here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2314.0.html

Pizzamaking.com is a member-supported public resource. Click HERE to become a Supporting Member.

Offline foodblogger

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2006, 04:00:56 PM »
One other thing -
On the subject of the Cream of Tartar -
They call it a dough conditioner on the box.  If you look into it a bit, cream of tartar is one of the ingredients in baking powder.  Adding cream of tartar to any dough will make the dough ligheter and fluffier - like comparing Wonder bread with the small air bubbles to a hearth bread with big bubbles.  I got that idea from a response to a post I made at the cheftalk forums like a year ago.  After some experimentation I have started using it when I make Gino's.

At any rate I am still learning about pizza and I am sure this will be a lifelong process.  Once you get the recipe down there are all sorts of other variables to consider.  Little things like gas vs. electric oven will have huge effects on how your pizza turns out.  Temperature and position in the oven also have huge effects.  I haven't even tried a wood fired oven yet, so that is a whole new universe.

Thanks a TON for putting this website up.  Its great to see that there are people out there as crazy about pizza as I am.

PS - if you do a google search for Gino's East Pizza recipe, the top site that comes up is a complete ripoff of a post I made many years ago on the topsecretrecipes forum.  That recipe represents my early experimentation, before I figured out that the yellow color of the Gino's crust was from food coloring and NOT from cornmeal.  I hope people aren't still using that recipe, because I was completely on the wrong track.   :pizza:

Offline djryan1194

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2006, 08:07:12 AM »
Hello -

I am new to this forum as well.  I like many of you am a Chicago native who has moved away...  :(  I've also been trying desperately to duplicate Gino's or Malnati's crust.  How do you guys know for a fact that there isn't corn meal in their crust?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 09:10:42 AM »
djryan1174,

In the past, several members of the forum have posted ingredients used in Gino’s East and Malnati’s deep-dish pies. Most recently, buzz posted the ingredients for a typical Gino’s East pie (taken from the Gino’s East website) as follows:

Gino's East
11" Deep Dish Cheese Pizza

INGREDIENTS: DOUGH (FLOUR [WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, NIACIN, IRON, THIAMINE, MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID], WATER, VEGETABLE OIL [CORN OIL, EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL], DOUGH CONDITIONER [SUGAR, CREAM OF TARTAR, FDC YELLOW #5 AND #6, YEAST]), PIZZA SAUCE (TOMATOES [FRESH TOMATOES, TOMATO PUREE, SALT, CALCIUM CHLORIDE, CITRIC ACID], WATER, CORN STARCH, SUGAR, SALT, SPICES) MOZZARELLA CHEESE (PASTEURIZED PART SKIM MILK, CHEESE CULTURES, SALT, ENZYMES, CALCIUM CHLORIDE), ROMANO CHEESE (PART SKIM COWS MILK, CHEESE CULTURE, SALT, ENZYMES), OREGANO.

It has been somewhat harder to identify the ingredients in a typical Malnati’s deep-dish pie (I couldn’t find it at the Malnati’s or its shipper’s websites or from a general Google search), but member DKM some time ago ordered a pie from Malnati’s and if you look carefully at the ingredients list at Reply #1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,571.0.html, you will see that list. I used the Microsoft magnifier feature to read the list more clearly and this is what I wrote down from that list for a Malnatis pepperoni pizza:

Crust: flour, water, corn oil, olive oil, yeast;
Mozzarella cheese (pasteurized part-skim milk, culture, salt, enzyme);
Sauce: tomatoes, tomato puree, salt, citric acid;
Pepperoni (pork, beef, salt, spices, sugar, lactic acid, starter culture, extraction of paprika, garlic powder, spice extractions, sodium nitrite, BHA/BHT, citric acid);
Romano cheese (part skim sheep’s milk, part-skim cow’s milk, cheese cultures, salt, enzymes, sodium aluminocilicate (anti-caking agent), oregano.

So, unless different ingredients are being used for in-store and delivery applications (which I suppose is theoretically possible--but rather unlikely), it does not appear that cornmeal is being used in either the Gino’s East or Malnati’s deep-dish pies.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 02, 2006, 09:19:36 AM by Pete-zza »


Offline buzz

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 10:55:22 AM »
Malnati's uses corn oil in their crust--no olive oil according to corporate.

I don't know about independent pizza places, but none of the chains use corn meal--I believe this myth was started years ago when Jeff Smith (aka the Frugal Gourmet) published his version of Uno's recipe (which was incorrect), probably to explain the golden yellow color of Uno's deep dish.

Saying that, I don't know how Uno's and Malnati's make their pizza so greasy (the last Malnati's I had was so bad I had to throw it away!). Uno's tastes like Crisco, which perhaps can be explained by their use of cheap soybean oil (Crisco is hydrogenated soybean oil).

Offline foodblogger

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 11:20:54 AM »
I have been considering abandoning Gino's East Style deep dish pizza.  Let me explain.  First, the last few times I have eaten at Gino's East have been at the new location.  I have to say that I was less than impressed with the pizza that I was served.  Second, the deep dish pizzas I have been making at home in the last year or so were heads and tails better than anything I have ever eaten in a pizza restaurant in Chicago. 

When I first got into BBQ, the same exact thing happened after a few years.  I live in Kansas City now so I have access to world famous BBQ restaurants like Arthur Bryant's, Gates, Jack's Stack, Oklahoma Joe's etc.  At first those places were the best BBQ I had eaten, but eventually I developed my own style and I would take my BBQ over any in a restaurant any day.  The BBQ joints are now there for convenience only, when I don't have time to smoke something myself and I am hungry for BBQ.

I think that the best food you will eat will be at home.  If the cook is truly dedicated to making the highest quality food and pays careful attention to ingredients then the result will always be better than something that is made in huge batches by people who are just there to cash a paycheck.  Also, when the home cook goes to buy ingredients at the grocery store, he/she doesn't have to make choices between higher quality ingredients and upgrading health insurance for the workers.

This forum adds a whole new dimension to perfecting pizza.  The beauty is that if you get a group of people all working on the same project using experimentation you will end up at a more reproduceable result much faster.  I have a couple other projects going on right now, but eventually I will return to deep dish and hopefully open a dialog here.

Offline DKM

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 01:15:12 PM »
So, unless different ingredients are being used for in-store and delivery applications (which I suppose is theoretically possible--but rather unlikely), it does not appear that cornmeal is being used in either the Ginoís East or Malnatiís deep-dish pies.

Malnati's states they are the same.

DKM
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Offline DKM

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 01:16:10 PM »
Malnati's uses corn oil in their crust--no olive oil according to corporate.

According to Mark, they use olive oil in the pans.

DKM
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline DKM

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2006, 01:17:47 PM »
I have been considering abandoning Gino's East Style deep dish pizza.† Let me explain.† First, the last few times I have eaten at Gino's East have been at the new location.† I have to say that I was less than impressed with the pizza that I was served.† Second, the deep dish pizzas I have been making at home in the last year or so were heads and tails better than anything I have ever eaten in a pizza restaurant in Chicago.†

When I first got into BBQ, the same exact thing happened after a few years.† I live in Kansas City now so I have access to world famous BBQ restaurants like Arthur Bryant's, Gates, Jack's Stack, Oklahoma Joe's etc.† At first those places were the best BBQ I had eaten, but eventually I developed my own style and I would take my BBQ over any in a restaurant any day.† The BBQ joints are now there for convenience only, when I don't have time to smoke something myself and I am hungry for BBQ.

I think that the best food you will eat will be at home.† If the cook is truly dedicated to making the highest quality food and pays careful attention to ingredients then the result will always be better than something that is made in huge batches by people who are just there to cash a paycheck.† Also, when the home cook goes to buy ingredients at the grocery store, he/she doesn't have to make choices between higher quality ingredients and upgrading health insurance for the workers.

This forum adds a whole new dimension to perfecting pizza.† The beauty is that if you get a group of people all working on the same project using experimentation you will end up at a more reproduceable result much faster.† I have a couple other projects going on right now, but eventually I will return to deep dish and hopefully open a dialog here.

I think you have learned the true lesson of this board. 

DKM
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline Ronzo

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2006, 02:08:37 PM »
Hi everyone,
I just discovered the forum.† This is a great resource and I wish I had discovered it years earlier.† I am a Chicago native and I moved away.† I have spent the last 10 years trying to duplicate the Gino's taste.† I think I have come pretty close.† If you are interested in my recipe/techniques check this out:

http://damngoodfood.blogspot.com/2005/12/ginos-east-pizza-recipe.html


Ok... that does it... now I'm going to have to make it when I get home.
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline foodblogger

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2006, 04:16:50 PM »
Nytxn,

That recipe does make a darn good imitation of Gino's East.  The tide of opinion seems to be against me as to whether corn meal is in the crust.  It probably isn't in there now but I think the recipe has changed in the past few years.  When I was originally putting together this recipe I was eating at the old Superior street location 16 years ago.  Who knows, maybe I am remembering it wrong but I specifically remember that the crust was different because there were little pieces of corn meal in it.  I can't say 100% that I am right but it is a very good imitation.  Eventually I will put up another recipe that doesn't include corn meal. 

A couple pointers that maybe don't come out in the post all that well -

1)  If you put butter in the pan (according to instructions) then the rack should be in the middle portion of the oven.  Also the temp I use when cooking with butter in the bottom of the pan is a little lower than most people do deep dish at.  I use 375 vs the usual 425 - 450.

2)  If you crush canned whole tomatoes (according to instructions) you might want to drain some of the liquid off.  You don't have to get them completely dry but you don't want too much liquid or your pizza might be a little watery.

4)  Use just enough sauce to cover the cheese.  Spread it out - again for the same reason - you don't want too watery a pizza.

5)  When putting the dough in the pan you want the dough to be nice and thin - not thicker than 1/4 inch.  One problem you can run into is too thick of a crust where the bottom crust meets the side crust.  To avoid that you should push a finger down around the base of the perimeter of the pizza just to be certain that the dough didn't bunch up there.

6)  Turn the pizza 180 degrees half way through the cooking.

7)  This pizza is much better, in my opinion, with a drier mozzarella.  You can try all kinds of different cheeses, but I settled on a brand that is much drier than craft.  You'll have to experiment with the cheeses that are available to you locally.

8)  Don't rely on my cooking time.  You'll have to keep checking every 5 minutes or so after the first 20 to see if your pizza is done.  I always look for a little bit of cheese bubbling up through the sauce and starting to brown.

Offline itsinthesauce

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2006, 07:01:09 PM »
FB, I think you are right. There seems to be cornmeal in the crust, but ever so lightly. I also think there is a hint of egg.

Your thoughts?

Offline Ronzo

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2006, 11:11:23 PM »
I did make it.

We don't have cream of tartar or yellow food coloring, so that was the only difference between your dough and the ones we made.

I made two 9 inch pies. My wife and I finished one. The other is going in the fridge, although I doubt it will be as good reheated.

Cooked it for 35 minutes at 375, middle rack. At the end, I added some Canadian Bacon slices (quartered) to the top of the sauce and put it on broil at 400 for a few minutes to curl them slightly.

Had some leftover dough and made some pan fried flat bread and finished them in the oven in the ambient heat. They didn't come out as good as the pies.



Pizzas came out great.

Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline foodblogger

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Re: Gino's East Style Pizza
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2006, 08:25:43 AM »
nytxn,
I'm glad it turned out well for you!† The cream of tartar is a minor addition and something I only added recently.† Yellow food coloring won't change the flavor but it makes the pizza look like Gino's.†

itsinthesauce,

Quote
FB, I think you are right. There seems to be cornmeal in the crust, but ever so lightly. I also think there is a hint of egg.

Your thoughts?

I'll be honest, the last time I ate at Gino's was in 2001.† I haven't eaten there recently and the tide of opinion seems to be that there is no corn meal in the crust now.† A lot of people have also indicated that they think the yellow food coloring in the dough is actually from a yellowing product based on eggs, so maybe that is where the egg taste is coming from.† When I started trying to figure out the recipe 16 years ago I took a huge number of photos of the pies, slices, crusts etc.† Those were taken with my film camera.† I have the originals somewhere but it has been so long ago that I would really have to dig for them.†

One thing to remember about Gino's is that when I was eating there it was one location and it was before they started farming their pizza out to franchises and to infomercials.  The pizza I was eating 16 years ago is completely different from what you will get at the restaurant today in my opinion, but maybe I am just remembering things through rosy colored glasses.  I suspect that they changed their recipe to be cheaper, more stable in transport, and more reproduceable in franchises by people who have no idea about making the pizza on their own.  A perfect example of this is the difference between pizza served at Uno's/Due's in downtown Chicago vs. the slop they serve at Uno's Chicago Grill.  Those are VERY VERY different pizzas.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2006, 08:30:26 AM by foodblogger »


 

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