Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinder Co.

[Lydia]

Sure, but I stopped posting, it didn't draw any interest. When I made it the first time it was AMAZING!  Light, crunchy and delicate with great flavor but have been unable to replicate the texture. My hydration level is off. I should have it figured out fairly soon though.

The sauce is perfect. Perfect for this crust IMHO.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1855.msg16401.html#msg16401

[Lydia]

Can someone describe the texture of the Chicago pizza and Grinder  pot pie dough. The sight describes a triple-rise sicilian dough. I read some reviews saying it was neither chewy or crispy, and somewhat bland.

I started work on a formula for the dough. I have beautiful browning but the final product is too chewy for a pleasant pot pie. It would be better suited for a hand-held calzone or pizza pocket.

[gottabedapan]

Can someone describe the texture of the Chicago pizza and Grinder  pot pie dough. The sight describes a triple-rise sicilian dough. I read some reviews saying it was neither chewy or crispy, and somewhat bland.

I started work on a formula for the dough. I have beautiful browning but the final product is too chewy for a pleasant pot pie. It would be better suited for a hand-held calzone or pizza pocket.

Haven't had the real thing from the restaurant, so I can't comment on their dough, but the Slomon dough is more like an American-style (Papa John's/Domino's) dough than a typical potpie dough.

[foodblogger]

Can someone describe the texture of the Chicago pizza and Grinder  pot pie dough. The sight describes a triple-rise sicilian dough. I read some reviews saying it was neither chewy or crispy, and somewhat bland.

Their discription is exactly right.  I posted a picture of one of the pies from the actual restaurant right at the beginning of this thread - post #1.  The crust is very soft and not chewy at all.  There was almost NO BROWNING of the crust.  The texture was very similar to the Sicilian pie I made last weekend.  If you wanted to recreate that I would strongly suggest lowering the water content from my recipe.  I would make it something like this:

King Arthur All Purpose Flour 100%
Fine Semolina Flour                25%
Water                                     35%
Whole Milk                              25%
Olive Oil                                  5%
Salt                                         2.0%
Sugar                                      1%
IDY                                          0.75%

The total hydration would be at 65%.  It is WAY too wet of a dough as I originally published it to be able to use for a pot pie.  Who knows, 65% may be too much and you might want to lower the water to 30% for a total of 60%.  Keep the milk where it is though, I really liked what the milk added to the crust.  I think milk is what is making their crust so tender and moist.  I also lowered the salt for this formulation from 2.5% to 2% anticipating that you would want to do this as a same day rise - ie wake up in the morning, throw together the dough and let it rise on the counter to be baked at night.  If you even wanted a shorter rise I would lower the salt content even further, say to 1.5 to 1.75%.  It might take making a few batches to figure this stuff out.

I started work on a formula for the dough. I have beautiful browning but the final product is too chewy for a pleasant pot pie. It would be better suited for a hand-held calzone or pizza pocket.

If you are looking to duplicate the restaurant's crust, then you absolutely do not want beautiful browning.  You don't want the dough to brown very much if at all.  I would suggest baking these on the middle rack at a lower temperature than you usually would -- like 350 or so.  The lower temperature should keep the crust nice and soft and keep it from browning too much.

[Lydia]

Thanks for the info 

It surprizes me that the dough contains milk, yet had little or no browning.

I use semolina quite often. The crusts usually become more tender with a bit of a proof after forming.

Hmmm, I better give it a go.


Do you have a Baker's percents calculator that is set up to accomodate the addition of semolina?

[foodblogger]

surprizes me that the dough contains milk, yet had little or no browning.

I'm not actually sure that the restaurant's dough contains milk.  The only reason I posted that recipe is because it makes a crust that tastes very similar to what I got in the restaurant.  I would attribute the lack of browning to a lower oven temperature and a shorter baking time.  It would take a bit of experimentation to figure out exactly how long it would take to melt the cheese and heat the toppings and simultaneously get the dough to bake up without getting too brown or dried out.  One way to do this would be to put the cheese in the bottom of the bowl and pour hot sauce/toppings in over the top.  The toppings/sauce should melt the cheese sufficiently and then the only thing you would be watching for once you put the pizza in the oven is for the crust to be baked and just starting to brown.  The crust tasted like they brushed it with melted butter after it came out of the oven, so you may want to do that as well.

Do you have a Baker's percents calculator that is set up to accomodate the addition of semolina?

The baker's formula is set up for the addition of semolina.  If you tell me how much dough you want to make up I can convert that baker's formula into weights if you wish.

[Lydia]

Thanks 

I'm looking to produce 4-6 doughballs in the 3.5 to 4 oz range. So far this has been a good weight to accomdate the bowls I'm using.

[foodblogger]

Here is a recipe that will give you 6 doughballs at the 4 oz weight.  Total weight will be 24 grams.  I am terrible at converting weights to volumes, but if you need volumes, I am sure someone will be able to do it for you.

Flour          10.32 oz
Semolina    2.58 oz
water         3.61 oz
milk             2.58 oz
olive oil       0.51 oz
salt             0.21 oz
sugar         0.1 oz
IDY             0.1 oz

One question I have for you is - how much time do you have to allow this dough to rise?  I'll give you some ideas on how to mix this up based on that.  The other piece of advice I have is that if you get the dough just about finished and it seems too wet for you to work with you may need to add some more flour.  This recipe will give you a hydration of 65% which may be much more than you are comfortable working with.

[Pete-zza]

Here (in italics) are the volume measurements for other than flour, water and milk:

Flour          10.32 oz
Semolina    2.58 oz, about 7 1/2 T.
water         3.61 oz
milk             2.58 oz
olive oil       0.51 oz, a bit over 1 T.
salt             0.21 oz, a bit over 1 t.
sugar         0.1 oz, a bit less than 3/4 t.
IDY             0.1 oz, between 7/8 and 1 t.

Peter

[Lydia]

I'm using weights, so no need to convert to volume, for now.

I guess I have all the time in the world for rise time. The only thing for consideration may be the time it takes to complete the first pot pie to the final one (around 45 min. total, but I may be able to reduce this after I'm confident with the ingredient weights for the bowls).

I am only baking 3-4 pies at a time on a 16 in. pizza pan. So, the first batch gets a rise while I'm completeing the final pies and the second batch gets it's rise while the first batch is baking. At 425F this has been about 15-20 minutes.

Right now I'm using 10 oz of flour to 6 oz of water and .4 oz of oil and absolutely no bench flour. It seems like the hydration is close. (I have math-dyslexia LOL! so I'm dependant on calculators.)

[Lydia]

Thanks Peter

You snuk in your response before I finished mine.

[foodblogger]

Lydia -
Is it possible for you to start the dough when you get up in the morning, add a few ingredients about 6 or so hours later and let it rise about 2 more hours?  If you could do it that way you might end up with a more flavorful crust.  I could also simplify it so that you just throw everything together at once and do one rise, punch it down and form your crusts.  Its really up to you.

[Lydia]

No a problem starting in the AM and so on. Sounds something like a biga or poolish. Tell me more.

[foodblogger]

I was planning on making the dough this weekend, but I am making it into a Sicilian pizza instead of pot pies.  Here is what I would do:

1)  Combine 3.61 oz flour and 3.61 oz  water in bowl.  Add .1 oz yeast, .1 oz sugar and .21 oz salt.  Stir using paddle attachment of Kitchenaid until well combined and not lumpy.
2)  Let the mixture ferment on the counter, covered, for 6 hours.
3)  To the poolish add the semolina, oil and milk.  Stir using the paddle attachment until well combined.
4)  Using the dough hook and the Kitchenaid on stir setting, gradually add the remaining flour over 5 minutes.

At this point you should assess the dough.  If it seems too wet you should add a little more flour and recheck.

5)  Knead dough using dough hook at a speed halfway between 2 and 3 for 5 minutes.
6)  Let the dough rest 15 minutes, then shape into a ball and let rise, covered for an hour and a half or until doubled in size.

As pete-zza pointed out, it doesn't meet the classic definition of a poolish but I think it will work 

[Lydia]

Just to clarify:

1)  Combine 3.61 oz flour and 3.61 oz  water in bowl.

is there a recommended water temp, or is it just irrelevant at this point?

4)  Using the dough hook and the Kitchenaid on stir setting, gradually add the remaining flour over 5 minutes.

Add flour at about...hmmm....a Tablespoon at a time until fully Incorporated before adding more? Maybe up-to 1/8th cup at a time.

3)  To the poolish add the semolina, oil and milk.

Is the milk warmed over at all, or just cold from the fridge? I typically use a fine non-fat milk powder.

5)  Knead dough using dough hook at a speed halfway between 2 and 3 for 5 minutes.

Would this be an additional 5 minutes after incorporating the remaining flour?

Thanks for the recommendations.

[foodblogger]

is there a recommended water temp, or is it just irrelevant at this point?

I've just been using tap water straight from the tap.

Add flour at about...hmmm....a Tablespoon at a time until fully Incorporated before adding more? Maybe up-to 1/8th cup at a time.

How I usually do this is much less precise.  I have the flour in a bowl and just dump a little in.  I wait until the flour is incorporated before I dump more in.  I do this at a rate so that all of the flour is added at the end of five minutes.

Is the milk warmed over at all, or just cold from the fridge? I typically use a fine non-fat milk powder.

I've been adding milk straight from the fridge, but you bring up a good point.  Perhaps it would be better to let the milk warm to room temp before putting it into the dough.

Would this be an additional 5 minutes after incorporating the remaining flour?

Yes an additional 5 minutes.  You'll have to use your judgement along the way.  If something doesn't seem right you'll have to make adjustments along the way.  It would be real cool if you could keep track of what you did along the way and report how things turned out.  That way we could all learn a bit from your experience.   

[Lydia]

Thanks again.

I'll keep posting. I do the best I can to track everything I do, but distractions happen and I sometimes have gaps in my notes.