Author Topic: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature  (Read 2856 times)

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Offline Dartanian

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Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« on: January 05, 2006, 09:00:17 PM »
Hello fellow pizza lovers. This is my first post.  What a great site.  I ordered some Caputo today.  When it comes, I plan to try the same day Pete's same day recipe.  My question is how long should I mix the dough in a kitchen aid mixer and and what speed?   Also, many recipes say that the temperature of the water for activating the yeast should be 105-115.  Does that instruction really need to be followed or is "room temperature" good enough.  Thanks for any feedback.  I look forward to hearing what all the experienced pizza experts on this site have to say.



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2006, 10:05:45 PM »
Dartanian,

Welcome to the forum.

I ordinarily use hand kneading to make the Caputo 00 dough, and usually in small quantities, so you may want to rely on others who use mixers to make the larger batches. However, from posts I have read on the forum, many of our members seem to use the following basic approach. Put the water into the mixing bowl, add the salt, and then stir to dissolve. Once all of the salt has been completely dissolved (this should only take about 30 seconds to a minute), add the yeast and stir that in. If active dry yeast (ADY) is used, it should first be proofed in a small amount of the total water, which has been warmed to about 105-115 degrees F. The rest of the water can be cooler than that. Water at 105-115 degrees F is water that is warm to the touch. The best way to tell the water temperature is to use an instant-read thermometer.  ADY does not particularly like cold water and anything above about 140 degrees F will kill it. My advice is to invest in an instant-read thermometer, preferably a digital model.

If instant dry yeast (IDY) is used, as called for in the recipe I believe you plan to use, it can be mixed directly into the flour. It does not need proofing in water. I might note, however, that in the recipe I believe you plan to use I added the IDY to the water because there was so little of it that I wanted to be sure that it became uniformly dispersed within the dough.

The next step is to turn on the mixer to low speed and add about three quarters of the flour to the bowl. If necessary, use a spatula to direct the flour into the path of the dough hook. When most of the flour has been absorbed, sprinkle the remaining flour into the mixer bowl. If you are using oil, it can be added at this point. Continue mixing until the dough takes the form of a smooth, cohesive ball but is a bit tacky to the touch. The length of time it takes to reach this point will depend on how much dough you are making and, to a degree, on the particular machine you are using to make the dough. If you are making enough dough for several pizzas, the dough as it comes out of the mixer should be allowed to ferment at room temperature for several hours, at which time it can be divided and shaped into individual dough balls and allowed to rest at room temperature for a few hours more. When I make a single dough ball, I usually (but not always) knock it down after the first rise, reshape it, and let it rise again.

Good luck.

Peter

« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 10:15:11 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline scott r

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Re: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 03:16:36 AM »
Dartanian. I can't believe Pete has been able to give you all that information in such a small space.  Way to go peter!  He has managed to cover just about everything, but I must add:

Do not get discouraged if your crust does not turn out tender and crispy.  The Caputo flour is really an anomaly amongst flours.  It is the absolute most difficult flour to work with and perfect in my opinion, but in the end it can totally outperform anything else I have encountered. The flavor and texture potential is enormous.   It is so finicy, just hang in there and feel free to ask us any other questions that will inevitably arise as you move forward with your quest.

AND WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Offline Dartanian

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Re: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2006, 07:54:06 AM »
Pete and Scott --

Thanks for the warm welcome to the forum, and thanks for the help.  I agree with Scott that that is an impressive amount of information in a small space.  A follow up question: when you say the initial rise should be a few hours is there should that be two, three, four, before I punch down and reshape? What is the best time for the initial rise?

Thanks again for the welcome to the forum!

Dartanian `

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2006, 10:38:10 AM »
Dartanian,

scott makes a very good point about the Caputo 00 flour. In due course, as you gain experience with the flour, and especially if you read some of the threads devoted to Neapolitan style doughs using that flour (the A16 thread is a good example), you will learn that the type of oven you use and the types of oven temperatures you can achieve will be major factors also. In fact, a good part of the A16 thread is devoted to how to improve your chances with the Caputo dough when using a standard home oven. If you happen to have a high-temperature oven, such as a wood fired oven, you will be golden.

As for the length of the rises of the dough, I would be looking for at least a total of 15 hours, with an initial 12 hour rise followed by a 3 hour rise. A lot of the first rise can occur overnight while you are asleep. I concluded that with the small amount of yeast (IDY) I used and the lowered room temperature I experienced when I made the dough I most likely could have extended the 15 hours by several more hours. Dough responds most to the amount of yeast used and temperature, so to shorten the total times you can use a bit more yeast, warmer water, or a combination of both. To lengthen the times, you can do the reverse. The best results, however, especially in terms of crust flavor, will be achieved with longer rather than shorter rise times.

Peter

Offline scott r

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Re: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2006, 02:31:35 PM »
I just wanted to point out that I have learned that a good number of quality pizzerias in Naples and the U.S. using the caputo flour shoot for somewhere around an 8 hour rise if they are not using a starter culture.

Having said this, I totally agree with Peter about going longer, and I tend to go up to 24 hours with my own pies.

Offline Dartanian

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Re: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2006, 08:53:33 PM »
Hi Pete, Scott, all --

In preparation of the arrival of the Caputo I have ordered, I have been reading the A16 thread and am a good way through it.  One of the first things I intend to try, in addition to Pete's same day recipe, is the A16 recipe posted by pieguy, which calls for an initial rise on the countertop until the dough triples in size, and then a 48 rise in the referigator.  In reading of the efforts of members who have done this, I see that after the countertop rise, the dough is punched down and then put into the fridge, then punched down again after 24 hours for another rise before it is shaped into a skin for baking after the second 24 hour period.  My question is this: after the dough rises and punched before going into the refrigerator for 48 hours, when it gets punched down, do you put in the refrigerator in the form of a punched down, rounded disk, or do you reshape it into a ball(s) and put it into the refrigerator that way (I am going to make enough dough for 3 or 4 13 inch pies). Similarly, when it comes time to punch it down after the first 24 hours in the fridge, I have the same question -- is it left as disk, or is punched-down and shaped into a ball(s), for the second 24 hour period?

Thanks for any counsel you may have!

Dartanian

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mixing Caputo in Kitchen Aid Mixer/Water Temperature
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2006, 09:25:14 PM »
Dartanian,

I'm glad to hear that you are going to try the pieguy formulation. I was planning to try it myself once I got back to making Caputo doughs with greater regularity.

Maybe you haven't yet read far enough into the A16 thread, but if you take a look at Reply #71, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.60.html, I think you may find the answer to your own question as to how the dough should be handled (the stretch and fold technique). My recollection also is that member giotto described his method for the fold and stretch technique. I think it was later in the A16 thread.

Peter


 

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