Author Topic: Trying to learn from one of the best  (Read 1052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline vincentoc13

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Trying to learn from one of the best
« on: April 28, 2013, 07:09:27 PM »

First an formost, thank you TXCraig for positing your entire pizza making process.  So I tried to replicate your process, but I'm sure I have a way to go until I can get even close to what you do.   

OK, a few things that I know I need to tweak:

1. When I'm at the stretch and fold part of the work flow, I could never get it to stretch easily even though I let it rest, it just had no resemblance to what yours looked like.  It would just tear and looked shaggy the whole time, so I just moved on.

2.  I'm using Ed Woods Ischia culture and I've been removing 3/4 of it and replacing with 140g  AP and 170g  of water.  made sure it was pretty active then used your recommended amount.  I'm just not sure if this is the correct way to activate the culture for your process.

3. I have a Forno Bravo Toscano 90 WFO, the deck was 820, dome was over 999, and wall closest to pizza was 700.  I read some where that people were saying FB's are not good to cook Neapolitan Pizzas in, wow that was hard to hear when I spent alot of money for it.  anyway if you look at the pie I posted, although it has the Lepording, it tasted way too burnt and it didn't have the beautiful air pockets yours do. I know i cant change my oven, so maybe it is true about FB's and I need to go lower on the temps?

If anyone has an opinion about my pizza please respond, I would love to hear it.

Once again thanks TXCraig,

Vincent.




Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2628
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 09:15:59 PM »
Craig can take this one, but I wanted to know what flour you are using, and how long you did the room temp ferment? Did the dough balls look expanded and lively?

John

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12833
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 09:23:15 PM »
First an formost, thank you TXCraig for positing your entire pizza making process.  So I tried to replicate your process, but I'm sure I have a way to go until I can get even close to what you do.   

We'll get you to where you want to be. Stick with it. I couldn't even begin to count how many pies I made before I got to one that made me think "now that's the pie I've been looking for." I still get plenty that I wasn't looking for.  ;)

Quote
1. When I'm at the stretch and fold part of the work flow, I could never get it to stretch easily even though I let it rest, it just had no resemblance to what yours looked like.  It would just tear and looked shaggy the whole time, so I just moved on.

Are you using Caputo Pizzeria? How long are you mixing in the mixer? Let it sit on the counter for 20 minutes after bringing it together in the mixer. Then, after a few stretch-and-folds, let it sit for another 20 min. See if that helps.

Quote
2.  I'm using Ed Woods Ischia culture and I've been removing 3/4 of it and replacing with 140g  AP and 170g  of water.  made sure it was pretty active then used your recommended amount.  I'm just not sure if this is the correct way to activate the culture for your process.

If it's active, it's active. I don't think it makes a lot of difference how you get there for this formula. About 8-10 hours before I need it, I add about water (~30% of the total volume I'm activating - keep in mind that mine is always fairly active because I use or feed it regularly), mix it up real good. Pour about 2/3 out and add enough flour to get it to a very thick batter-like consistency. What is important is that you do it the same way every time so you have some predictability in the speed of fermentation.

Quote
3. I have a Forno Bravo Toscano 90 WFO, the deck was 820, dome was over 999, and wall closest to pizza was 700.  I read some where that people were saying FB's are not good to cook Neapolitan Pizzas in, wow that was hard to hear when I spent alot of money for it.  anyway if you look at the pie I posted, although it has the Lepording, it tasted way too burnt and it didn't have the beautiful air pockets yours do. I know i cant change my oven, so maybe it is true about FB's and I need to go lower on the temps?

That pie certainly looks awesome from here. Just from the picture I wouldn't even begin to know how to tell you to improve it. You say it was burned? On the bottom? The leoparding I see on the top should not be giving it a burned taste. What do you mean when you say it doesn't have big air pockets? Does it have dense tiny little air pockets like a loaf of white bread (i'm guessing not), or is just too soft to open and see the air pockets? If I can cut my pies open and see big air pockets, I probably have not make the pie I want to make. I like my pies way too soft to see the crumb structure without pulling it apart. Pizza is not bread.

As for your oven, I've seen plenty of beautiful pies come out of FB ovens. Assuming your oven is capable, and yours is, it's about learning to use your oven to get what you want. It's not about what someone else tells you your oven can't do.

You are way ahead of where I was at this stage. Keep with it!
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12833
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 09:25:58 PM »
Also from the look of the cheese and sauce, it looks like you have the time and temp about right.

More pictures would help. Be sure to get bottom shots and crumb shots if you can - even if you have to peel it back open with your fingers after cutting it. Take some shots of the problems you're having making dough too.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1908
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 12:41:33 PM »
vincent, don't worry about your investment forno bravo ovens cook great Neapolitan pizza. at such high temperatures it takes practice and time to get to know your oven.the top of that pie looks great. if the bottom is over cooked you may have to pull the pie off the floor for a portion of the cook. great looking pie!

Offline fornographer

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 240
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 01:15:21 PM »
Forno Bravos can cook proper neapolitan pies.  It's just a bit of a learning curve in managing the oven in addition to getting your dough right.  By the looks of your first try, you're well on your way.  If you find that your bottoms are getting too done because of the floor over heating, just put a bit of water in a cast-iron pan, cover it with aluminum foil, poke holes in the foil, then carefully put it in the oven.  It will absorb the excess heat off the floor even as you keep a very aggressive fire.  This works incredibly well. 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 01:18:21 PM by fornographer »

Offline vincentoc13

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 11:13:57 PM »
Thank you everyone for the positive feedback!

TX Craig, OK on next bake I will take pics of which stages I'm having problems with.  As far as my comments about air pockets, I was talking about crumb shots when it looks more open and supple inside of the cornice, (don't know if I spelled that right), mine looked allot more dense then the really good shots of yours and others.  the length of time in mixer is what you recommend in your work flow. Oh yeah, the bottoms were a little burnt maybe that's what was giving it the burnt flavor and not the crust it self.

John, I'm using Caputo 00 red bag.  room temp was 78 for about an 90Min's.  the dough balls looked pretty good, but not that much activity I didn't take a picture of the bottom, but here is one of the balls in its container.

Thezaman and Fornographer, thank you for the reassurance! I will try to keep the deck a little cooler on next bake.


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12833
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 11:22:18 PM »
John, I'm using Caputo 00 red bag. 

1kg or 25kg red bag? 1kg red bag is the same as Pizzeria. 25kg red is reinforced.
Pizza is not bread.

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1261
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 11:23:41 PM »
John, I'm using Caputo 00 red bag. 

Hey Vince, may I ask where you obtained the Caputo flour?  I also live in Orange County and I'm not aware of anywhere locally where it is sold. I bought a few pounds at Surfas but it's not very reasonably priced there.  They did tell me they could special order me a 25lb bag if I want one.  But it would be simpler if there were a normal retail outlet in or near to Orange County where I could buy it. 

Regards,

TinRoof

P.S. Your pizzas look great! 

Offline vincentoc13

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 11:44:14 PM »
I use the 1kg, is the blue bag better to use in this application?

TinRoof, if you are familiar with Claros Italian market in Tustin they carry it there, but they run out pretty quick.  last week they didn't have it, but there are suppose to get it this week, I'm gonna check it out tomorrow.  Thanks for the compliment


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12833
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Trying to learn from one of the best
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 11:53:35 PM »
I use the 1kg, is the blue bag better to use in this application?

The 1kg red bag "Chef's Flour" is the same as the 25kg blue bag "Pizzeria" flour. It is the right flour for this application.
Pizza is not bread.