Author Topic: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?  (Read 1598 times)

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Offline jamieg

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Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« on: May 03, 2013, 02:45:39 PM »
Hi all,

I’ve started a Pizza of the Month competition with my employees.

Each pizza is rated according to 17 factors and given 1 to 3 points:

3 pts - excellent
2 pts - ok
1 pts - bad

I can post the 17 factors if anybody wants to know.

Anyway, we would love to gets some feedback from this forum.

Here’s one of the videos:

ana - albahaca - 92%


Thanks ;-)


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2013, 03:04:06 PM »
I'd be curious to know the 17 factors. I'm not sure how we can give much feedback without knowing them? Notwithstanding, that sounds like a lot to try to consider when making a single pie. Too many might be counterproductive.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2013, 03:26:16 PM »
It's definately a lot to remember - and some of the criteria is already determined by the state of the dough - which isn't always optimal.

The goal is to drum into the employees - if the perfect pizza exists - what that pizza would look like - of course - we'll always fall short somewhere.

Here's the criteria - which I've hastily translated from spanish to english - so excuse me if there are basic errors:

PADDLE - the dough is dry before going on the paddle - and not much flour is used on the paddle?
SPEED - less than 100 seconds to put on all the ingredients?
PORTIONS - good sized portions - not too much or too little?
ORDER - the order in which ingredients are placed is as per the guide?
PRESENTACIÓN - minimal overlapping? cheese is torn/placed randomly? basil leaves are not squashed?
SIZE   - size of pizza is neither too big or too little?
PROPORTION - good proportion between border size and rest of pizza?
SHAPE - more or less round? not rectangular or some other shape?
SAUCE - sauce is wet and shiney?
CHEESE - cheese is melted so it fuses with the tomato - but not until is begins to dry out?
LEOPARDING - leoparding and good contrast between light regions and the leoparding?
RISE   - good rise - not flat and boring?
EXTERIOR - thin like paper - makes a crunchy sounds when cutting?
CRUMB - air bubbles of different sizes?
UPSKIRT - leoparding and good contrast between light regions and the leoparding? no yellow burning which leaves burnt taste?
TIP SAG - not too much tip sag / ingredients do no slide off when holding a porcion vertically?
CUT - each portion cut the same size?

Anyway, feel free to give me some feedback - if it's not relevant to the above criteria that's fine.

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2013, 04:04:53 PM »
The pizza in the video looks very good.  The dough is very high hydration I think, correct?  I could tell based on how long it took to get the dough out of its container.  It looks like Ana is a skilled pizza maker. She didn't seem to have any trouble working with that dough.  Maybe should could learn to stretch the dough a bit quicker, but she seems to have good skills. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2013, 04:23:39 PM »
The hydration is 67.71%.

Actually, the reason the ball didn't come out of the container is because we've been having problems with the fermentation. Normally, the ball drops out easily. This is also why the borders didn't rise very much - and why the crumb was very disappointing.

Offline oknewell

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2013, 04:41:49 PM »
jamieg thanks for sharing the video!  So using your scale and the 17 grading points what did you give the pizza in the video?

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2013, 05:01:19 PM »
Well, it got 92% - which might sound quite high.

She dropped points on:

Presentation - the cheese is supposed to be torn and placed inconsistently - so that it melts with the sauce to differing degrees - creating a milky way of white, orange, yellow and red - as opposed to jet white against a backdrop of jet red.

The rise, exterior and crumb - all scored 2 points instead of 3 - this - I think - is simply because we have had a bad week with the fermentation. The crumb in particular was very bad.

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2013, 05:03:11 PM »
Actually - the crumb should have scored 1 point - but I was generous as that's basically my fault for not fixing the fermentation issue.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 05:55:04 PM »
Actually - the crumb should have scored 1 point - but I was generous as that's basically my fault for not fixing the fermentation issue.

Who is responsible for the dough? Formula, mixing, fermentation protocol, etc.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 06:08:34 PM »
Who is responsible for the dough? Formula, mixing, fermentation protocol, etc.
I feel that poor Ana got rooked man.... ::)
And she should get extra points for being cute too...where's that consideration/factor...huh?
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2013, 06:20:25 PM »
I am responsible for directing everything - but they carry out the execution.

I'm English... what does rooked mean?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2013, 06:22:11 PM »
I am responsible for directing everything - but they carry out the execution.

I'm English... what does rooked mean?
gypped
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2013, 12:01:49 AM »
Here's another video - this time of me attempting a Marinana.

This is how our dough normally looks - if the dough balls are 100% ready when we open at 5pm.

Unfortunately, I didn't put enough sauce on - so the final pizza was way to dry for my taste.

jamie - marinana

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2013, 12:40:05 AM »
Thanks for sharing your videos, I watched them both. Next time I'm in Medellin I'll have to stop by lol. I'm curious for your list of qualities, where did you get those determining factors? Do those just make up your favorite pizza?

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2013, 02:02:19 AM »
Thanks Jefferey,

I think the qualities are mostly common sense (at least to me). There's a few personal preferences - like how the cheese should melt - and a few that seem to come up frequently in this forum - like leoparding - and some are purely practical - like making sure the dough is dry before placing it on the paddle.

I use them because - it's not realistic to have 6 different employees making pizza - and for those employees to go online and read about pizza or look at images (they don't speak english or italian) - so it's just a way of communicating a concept and having a form of quality control.

The list could be improved - the descriptions could be more specific - and probably some criteria is more important than others. So, if it proves to be a useful tool - it will need tweaking.

Does anybody disagree with the criteria? Or, perhaps there is something missing? Can anybody tell me where the pizza is lacking - regardless of the criteria? Or, perhaps, you think I'm insane for using a list of 17 criteria?

I think - the danger with evaluating your own pizza is that - it can become a bit like looking at your own holiday photos - somehow you are blind to the imperfections because you are so emotionally tied the image - and so what seems like a work of art to you - is hidiously boring to someone else. Hence, my plea for feedback... ;-)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2013, 01:28:20 PM »
I think your list is a good training tool. Looking at the list; it's sort of eyeopening to see how many things we actually do and how when it becomes habit you are doing/checking many things quickly without hardly realizing it. If that makes sense.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2013, 01:56:11 PM »
Does anybody disagree with the criteria?

Unless the person making the pie is also responsible for making the dough from start to finish and for the fire, I'm not sure it's fair to evaluate them on LEOPARDING, RISE, EXTERIOR, and CRUMB.

TIP SAG? not too much tip sag? Isn't this Neapolitan pizza? Unless you fold the slice, the tip and much of the pie should pretty much hang straight down.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2013, 02:33:41 PM »
Unless the person making the pie is also responsible for making the dough from start to finish and for the fire, I'm not sure it's fair to evaluate them on LEOPARDING, RISE, EXTERIOR, and CRUMB.

I agree - those criteria are unfair insofar as a different employee might have made the dough or balled the dough that day. There are other factors they can't control - the weather being the most obvious - but I included the criteria as a reminder that these are fundemental issues - and so when I have to talk to them about fermentation - they understand how this ties in to the end goal.

That said - they do have some control over these factors even if a different employee fermented the dough. For example, do they take the time to select a dough ball that is perfectly fermented? They can contol the heat of the oven - so do they take any steps to maximise leoparding if it's lacking - both in terms of getting the heat right before cooking - and the placement of the pizza whilst it's being cooked?

Anyway - who wins is kind of a side issue / bit of fun - the bigger goal at the moment is - to accumulate video examples of pizzas - and for each pizza - to be very clear what is good or bad - which we can later use as training material.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 02:45:59 PM by jamieg »

Offline jamieg

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2013, 02:36:41 PM »
TIP SAG? not too much tip sag? Isn't this Neapolitan pizza? Unless you fold the slice, the tip and much of the pie should pretty much hang straight down.

Yes... haha. Well, I can't say this is Neapolitan 100%. Perhaps, the main deviation is that all our customers insist on eating with their hands and have made it clear that they like the pizza to have a bit of a crunch. So - we have a preference to control the tip sag at least a little and to have a slight crunch on the border - but never at the cost of drying out the cheese/sauce.

Looking at other restaurants on the radar - I think Bianco's is a good example of what we would like to achieve - although I have seen many photos where his cheese has dried out presumably to add crunch to the border. Also - adding 30 seconds to the cooking time - with slightly less heat - significantly reduces the chance of leoparding - so it's a nightmare mix of variables to control.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 02:40:07 PM by jamieg »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Pizza of the Month - Any feedback?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2013, 02:55:06 PM »
Looking at other restaurants on the radar - I think Bianco's is a good example of what we would like to achieve

That's a slower, lower temp bake with no leoparding to speak of. Closer to NY than NP.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


 

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