Author Topic: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible  (Read 1297 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2014, 07:34:41 PM »
How did you do it? I tried and saw no link to add something to a shopping cart.  ???

Mike,

I called Central Milling at the phone number dissitka provided at Reply 169  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,30759.msg348526.html#msg348526

Norma
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #81 on: November 11, 2014, 08:40:28 PM »
You have to call 1 (866) 979-2253.

Got it.
Mike

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Offline mitchjg

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2014, 12:22:31 PM »
Mitch,

Good work. Now you can see why I was originally hesitant about commenting on the KA diastatic malt. I was looking at the ingredients list at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop-img/labels/1415124248153.pdf where the malted barley flour is last in the list. I assume that the KA pdf document is the current one since I found it at the KA website. If so, this tells us to look behind the ingredients list to find the Lintner value if it is not recited anywhere, as it is for most malt producers.

The only way to know if using one-fifth the amount of diastatic that Tony calls for is to try it out.

Peter

Peter and All:

I have been pondering and researching the concept of low diastatic malt vs high diastatic malt with the Lintner degrees, etc.

Specifically, I have been unconvinced that one must buy "low diastatic malt" and use 2% in Tony's recipes.  Instead, I have been thinking that it may only be a matter of using less of the diastatic malt when the Lintner degrees are higher.

For example, referring to the above quote, the diastatic malt powder from King Arthur is rated at 100 Lintner degrees.  The Central Milling diastatic malt, a source that Tony G documents,  is rated at 20 Lintner and Tony G's recipes usually call for 2% of Total Flour.

My theory has been that you can use the King Arthur diastatic malt (or any other with a higher Lintner number) but that you should use less.  In this case 1/5 of the amount - so about 0.4% of Total Flour.

In "Googling" around, I came across these three examples that support this idea:
http://blog.eckraus.com/blog/home-brewing-beer-2/what-is-diastatic-power-definition-chart
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/porter-50-brown-malt-218682/index2.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=x7c2AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA380&lpg=PA380&dq=20+lintner+degrees+diastatic+malt+bread&source=bl&ots=cfFLq6T8Jq&sig=elOz2h7MT9UIKGq1xd2-VJfiAfo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=W2djVI_VA4j1iQLAkIDoCg&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=20%20lintner%20degrees%20diastatic%20malt%20bread&f=false

I then decided to "go to the professional bakers" and inquire again with a consultant from King Arthur.  I had a chat, followed up with an email.  Following  are the contents of the two.

The "chat":
"
Elisabeth B: Hi there! Thank you for chatting with us here at King Arthur Flour. How can I help you?
You: Hi
You: I have a question about your Diastatic Malt Powder.  I actually contacted you folks a couple of days ago (Sandra) and learned that the "Lintner Degrees" measure was 100.
You: I am planning on following a recipe that calls  for "Low Diastatic Powder"
You: and the author has pointed us to a measure of 20 degrees Lintner
You: Do you happen to know if it is as simple as taking the King Arthur powder and using 1/5 the amount prescribed?
Elisabeth B: No, that sounds too easy of a fix. 
Elisabeth B: What are you going to use it in?  A bread that needs several rises?
You: Pizza.  Short mix, then 2 days cold ferment
Elisabeth B: I see.  Hold on while I do some research.
You: ok
You: to be more clear.  It is only "one rise".  After the mix, the pizza dough is balled up into individual portions.  Then, after a 24-48 hour cold ferment, they are out of the fridge, tempered and then the pizza dough is opened and baked.
Elisabeth B: I was checking on the rating of our non-distatic powder and it is 60.  We do not have what you need I am afraid.
You: I think/hope you meant Diastatic Powder.  I do not need the non-diastatic.
Elisabeth B: One moment please.
You: sure
You: and thanks
Elisabeth B: The only distatic powder we have has the 100 rating.  I thought I would check the the non for comparison.
You: Oh, I see, thanks.
Elisabeth B: I am not completely sure on what to recommend you do. 
Elisabeth B: It is completely acceptable to use the 100 powder as it will do what you need it to do.
Elisabeth B: It will provide food for the yeast to keep turning the starches into sugars during that long rise in the frig.
You: OK.  I think I understand but the chemistry is beyond my knowledge.  Do you happen to know, generally, the difference in impact or effect between using the 20 degree value vs. 100?  What do you think may actually be different?
Elisabeth B: I am really not sure.  I also need to educate myself Mitch.  I will need to get back to you.  I am sorry and appreciate your patience.
You: ok, thanks a lot.  That would be terrific.  I think I gave you my email address when I registered for the chat.  You can reach me there.
Elisabeth B: Great!  Thanks.
You: BTW, the other reason (aside from the obvious of 20/100) that I was guessing at 1/5 is that the recipe calls for the diastatic malt at 2% of Total Flour.  That is multiples of the amount recommended by KA which I estimated to be roughly 1/2% or less.
Elisabeth B: I see.  Who's book are you using?
You: Pizza Bible by Tony Gemignani
You: It is a brand new book.  The use of diastatic malt powder is kind of a new thing to the people I have been chatting with.  If you want you can check out pizzamaking.com and look at the "Cookbook Reviews"
You: You will see a very substantial discussion about the diastatic malt powder, the availability, etc.
You: I am actually checking with you on both my own behalf and on the behalf of the members there
Elisabeth B: What members?
Elisabeth B: Oh, on the Cookbook Reviews.
You: Oh sorry, not a club, etc.  It is an internet forum
You: So, it is the people that have registered in the forum and exchange information, recipes, etc.
Elisabeth B: Ok, I will be in touch MItch.
You: Here is the link to the thread
You: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,30759.0.html
Elisabeth B: Thank you.
You: Thanks to you
"
The email:

"
Hello Mitch
 
I have spoken with some folks in our test kitchen and your inclination to use less was correct.  Yes, it is a question of concentration.  Malt Powder is typically 100.  Malt extract is either 20 or 60.   If using 100 in a 20 recipe, we suggest reducing the amount  by 80%.
 
100g #20 malt becomes 20g #100 malt.
 
The recipe you are using is probably calling for a 20 Lintner because it would be readily available locally.  Your local beer supply store will sell a malt syrup with a degree of 20.
 
Hope this helps Mitch!
 
Happy pizza making!
 
Sincerely,
 
Elisabeth
"

BTW, the standard recommendation from KA for use of their Diastatic Malt powder is 0.5 - 1.0 teaspoons per 3 cups of flour.  The standard KA measure for a cup of flour is 4.25 ounces.  So, 4 cups is 3 cups X 4.25 ounces/cup X 28.35 grams/ounce = 361.5 grams.  1 teaspoon of the malt powder is 2 grams, so the recommendation is 1 to 2 grams.  That is 0.27% - 0.54%.  The 1/5 of 2% = 0.4% is, therefore, entirely consistent with the standard recommendation for the use of the Diastatic Malt Powder.

My conclusion is that our members do not have to feel that they must use the "low diastatic malt powder' which seems to have limited sourcing.  That, instead, they can purchase other choices but must be aware of the Lintner number and adjust accordingly.

- Mitch

« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 03:28:20 PM by mitchjg »

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2014, 09:53:32 AM »
I made the Master Dough with Starter (page 44) over the weekend.  This recipe makes a very delicious pizza.  Since the recipe is not much different than my normal process other than the addition of diastatic malt, I have to credit the diastatic malt with the additional flavor. It's definitely worth tracking down some diastatic malt if you don't have some already. 

One thing I should mention for those that are baking in a Blackstone oven or other oven that is capable of getting really hot. Be careful you don't bake this recipe too hot. I put the first pizza on with the Blackstone bottom stone probably around 625F (which is my normal bottom stone temp for my regular recipe without diastatic malt) and it burned the bottom to a black crisp.  On the second pizza I dialed the temperature down to about 500F and the pizza baked really well, with nice browning on the bottom.  So be forewarned, this recipe will burn if you bake it too hot. 

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2014, 10:23:01 AM »
Makes sense.  On page 16 (the section on Malt), Tony specifically says you should not use the malt for ovens that attain temperatures of 650 and above.  625 vs. 650 is probably not meaningful in this context.  Who knows, maybe a fraction of the malt would be OK.

- Mitch

Offline norma427

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2014, 12:47:53 PM »
I forgot to mention it, but the Central Milling diastatic malt I ordered arrived on Monday.

Norma
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #86 on: Today at 05:02:53 AM »
All I have been able to find locally is dried malt extract in the form of concentrated brewers wort.  To my knowledge it is non-diastatic.  Can you make your own diastatic malt flour by purchasing a base 2 row malt & grinding it into a powder with a Vitamix?


 

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