Author Topic: Pizza from France  (Read 18793 times)

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Online scott123

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #100 on: June 23, 2013, 02:15:50 PM »
So if I managed to bypass the thermostat, what would the temperature rise to, and is there any risk that the oven could overheat and explode (for example) ?


Barry, as far as I can tell, Seb has no issues reaching far above Neapolitan temps (932F on the hearth), nor is there any apparent issue with the upper element shutting off during the bake, so I'm not sure bypassing the thermostat is even necessary (but it's still fun to watch the video, so, thanks, Sub, for the link).

The thermostat says 450°C (842°F) but I already measured an higher temp (over 500°C/932°F).


Edit: I took a minute and watched some of the modder's other videos:

pizzata prePasquale


I can't believe that they took all the time to bypass the thermostat and didn't even use the oven for Neapolitan, but, I have to admit, it does look like they're having fun.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 02:32:56 PM by scott123 »


Offline sub

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #101 on: June 23, 2013, 07:24:53 PM »
Hi sub,

This is really fascinating!  So if I managed to bypass the thermostat, what would the temperature rise to, and is there any risk that the oven could overheat and explode (for example) ?

Hi Barry,
The oven is insulated very well, it can reach crazy temperatures (For exemple in my little G3Ferrari without thermostat, the temperature inside can reach 1070°F in 20 minutes)
there is a safety resettable thermostat at the back of the oven for the inside chamber and it's a cold outer cover by fan forced air.


Barry, as far as I can tell, Seb has no issues reaching far above Neapolitan temps (932F on the hearth), nor is there any apparent issue with the upper element shutting off during the bake, so I'm not sure bypassing the thermostat is even necessary (but it's still fun to watch the video, so, thanks, Sub, for the link).


Seb has great results with the oven because he uses very long cold ferment method, it's a trick to get the leoparding with electrical oven, but trust me, it will be more difficult if he uses ambiant rise.

In a WFO, you have constant hot air inside, it's not the case in an electric oven. ( see on youtube watch?v=9lYDLfBElBc )

When the probe inside reach 842°F the top heating element shut off, you what it always glowing red because the air temperature drasticly drop when you open the door of the oven to put the pie in (and turn it halway for an even cooking)  it's not good for short baking time, because the air need more time to warm up, or it need to be constant.

One way to solve this will be to raise the stone and / or put refractory stone to the walls like on expensive pro electric oven like the GGF FR but the preheat time will be a lot longer.

then you'll have a little monster capable to quickly bakes pies like in the Best Napolitan WFO (or a lot more closer)

Désolé d'avoir un peu débordé sur ton sujet seb  ;)


« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 07:28:30 PM by sub »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #102 on: June 23, 2013, 07:56:29 PM »
For the price...this oven looks to be very well built.  Shame we can't get them.  >:(
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline sub

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #103 on: June 23, 2013, 08:14:20 PM »
It's taken me some time to catch up with this topic, but, I finally got a chance to plug these numbers into my oven wattage calculator and compare them with other brands.  With a broiler (upper element) strength of 8 watts per square inch, from a top element perspective, this is the strongest electric pizza oven in the world. The next closest, at 5.6 watts, are the Swedish Pizzamasters, and those, I believe are close to a couple thousand dollars.

Seb, the Baker's Pride P22s, just as a comparison, clock in at 2.8 watts/sq. inch. As you can see, that's incredibly pitiful compared to 8.  I have to give your friend a lot of credit for modifying his P22, but that's not really a very viable option for most of the members of this forum.

In other words, you struck gold with this oven- and have something that the rest of the world can only imagine, at a pretty amazing price.

Scott, Leaufroide P22 is even more powerfull, I've done the maths

It's a twice 3.25" x 20.75" x 20.75" Deck but he only uses the top, the bottom is filled with refractory bricks, and he uses 2x 1450W heating element for the top.

P22: 7.90W/cm3 P134H: 7.59W/cm3 

I did not take into account the lower resistances.

Online scott123

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #104 on: June 23, 2013, 09:06:07 PM »
When the probe inside reach 842°F the top heating element shut off, you what it always glowing red because the air temperature drasticly drop when you open the door of the oven to put the pie in (and turn it halway for an even cooking)  it's not good for short baking time, because the air need more time to warm up, or it need to be constant.


With the height of this dome, 800F (with a 42 degree buffer to make sure the upper element stays on), isn't bad for Neapolitan, but I'll concede that if the oven is insulated well enough for 900F on top, then perhaps a thermostat mod might not be a bad idea.

Scott, Leaufroide P22 is even more powerfull, I've done the maths

It's a twice 3.25" x 20.75" x 20.75" Deck but he only uses the top, the bottom is filled with refractory bricks, and he uses 2x 1450W heating element for the top.

P22: 7.90W/cm3 P134H: 7.59W/cm3 

I did not take into account the lower resistances.


Sub, I'm confused about a couple things.  Is Leaufroide = Baker's Pride?  Who is 'He?'  Is it the person in the video that was linked to earlier?

Pizza margharita Bakers Pride P22


When you talk about the bottom being filled with bricks are you referring to this person's modified version or does the P22 ship like that?

Btw, from another video of the same individual, it appears that the bottom baking chamber has a broiler in the top of it (or the bottom pizza wouldn't brown):

Test Bakers Pride P22


My calculator makes the assumption that a 2 deck oven has 3 elements- 1 under the bottom stone, 1 under the middle stone and 1 under the ceiling.  If the P22 doesn't have an element under the bottom stone, then, looking at the specs, it references 3.6 kw, translating into two 1.8 kw elements. 1,800 watts divided  by 430 square inches (the area of each deck) equals about 4 watts per square inch.  That's still half the watts per square inch of the P134H.

Also, while we're on the topic of P22s, I took a good look at the pizzas the person in the link is making, and, while they look great, they're not, imo, anywhere near Neapolitan- like Seb's are.  Even with a doubled up resistor, the P22 is a vastly inferior oven to the P134H.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #105 on: June 23, 2013, 10:46:28 PM »
It's taken me some time to catch up with this topic, but, I finally got a chance to plug these numbers into my oven wattage calculator and compare them with other brands.  With a broiler (upper element) strength of 8 watts per square inch, from a top element perspective, this is the strongest electric pizza oven in the world. The next closest, at 5.6 watts, are the Swedish Pizzamasters, and those, I believe are close to a couple thousand dollars.

Seb, the Baker's Pride P22s, just as a comparison, clock in at 2.8 watts/sq. inch. As you can see, that's incredibly pitiful compared to 8.  I have to give your friend a lot of credit for modifying his P22, but that's not really a very viable option for most of the members of this forum.

In other words, you struck gold with this oven- and have something that the rest of the world can only imagine, at a pretty amazing price.

Btw, if you wanted to play around with this oven a bit, you might be able to intensify the top leoparding a tiny bit by raising the bottom stone about a half inch to an inch (15 mm to 30 mm).  This will let the heat from the bottom element escape, so you'll need to cover the hole with some thin gauge steel, but the closer you get to the broiler, the more leoparding you'll get. Not that you need it  ;D

Also, forgive me if this has already been discussed, but what tomatoes are you using? Is this passata?

My stovetop oven prototype has 10.2W/in^2 above, AND runs of a standard US outlet.  Just to throw that into your arena, lol.
-Jeff

Offline Barry

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #106 on: June 24, 2013, 08:18:39 AM »
Quote
Barry, as far as I can tell, Seb has no issues reaching far above Neapolitan temps (932F on the hearth), nor is there any apparent issue with the upper element shutting off during the bake, so I'm not sure bypassing the thermostat is even necessary (but it's still fun to watch the video, so, thanks, Sub, for the link).

Hi scott123,

Thanks for your reply. What do you think of sub's idea of adding refractory stone to the walls of the P134H ?

Kind regards

Barry

Offline Barry

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #107 on: June 24, 2013, 08:23:54 AM »
Hi sub,

Quote
Seb has great results with the oven because he uses very long cold ferment method, it's a trick to get the leoparding with electrical oven, but trust me, it will be more difficult if he uses ambiant rise.

Could you elaborate on this please. I do prefer an ambient 48 hour rise. What should I do to ensure good leaparding?

Quote
One way to solve this will be to raise the stone and / or put refractory stone to the walls like on expensive pro electric oven like the GGF FR but the preheat time will be a lot longer.

then you'll have a little monster capable to quickly bakes pies like in the Best Napolitan WFO (or a lot more closer)

I want a "little monster"! How much should I raise the stone, and with what? What spec refractory stone should I use for the walls? Any suppliers in France?

Kind regards.

Barry

Offline Seb

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #108 on: June 25, 2013, 04:24:37 PM »
hi seb,

i am torsten, we are going to open a neapolitan pizzeria in winter here in cologne.


I hope you'll find the right place and the right customers above all !
And I hope I'll see the name of a restaurant from Köln on this site URL very soon : http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/shownaz_eng.php?n=Germania
Does your stefano ferrara forno have been delivered ?

Yesterday I've made some dough.
0.1g frozen fresh yeast and 7g salt in the bottom of a glass surrounded by 217g of water, throwned in a bowl and mixed with 350g flour.
I've just made the two dough balls and I'll make a pie tomorrow evening.




Offline Seb

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #109 on: June 25, 2013, 04:27:14 PM »


Also, forgive me if this has already been discussed, but what tomatoes are you using? Is this passata?


At the moment, I'm using Mutti products.
http://www.mutti-parma.com/fr/la-gamme/polpa-pulpe
http://www.mutti-parma.com/fr/la-gamme/autres-produits-de-la-gamme


Offline Seb

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #110 on: June 25, 2013, 04:31:10 PM »

Did you pay any extra for the "special"version 1750W up & 700W down?


It's the same price and now it's even is a little lower ! (295 euros + 95 euros for the delivery).
A lot of french people are buying it right now.
EffeUno company is avoiding the economic crisis thanks to us  ;D

Offline Seb

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #111 on: June 25, 2013, 04:33:57 PM »

Seb has great results with the oven because he uses very long cold ferment method, it's a trick to get the leoparding with electrical oven, but trust me, it will be more difficult if he uses ambiant rise.


R U callin me a cheater, bro ?  ;D
Gniagniagnia, c'est ce qu'on va voir  ;)
RDV demain soir.

Offline Seb

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #112 on: June 25, 2013, 04:50:30 PM »
Why not ?


Offline pizzaja

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #113 on: June 25, 2013, 05:53:46 PM »
Hi,

I am thinking about getting either the effeuno or the ggf micro a  http://www.ggf-srl.it/en/forni-per-pizza-serie-e-micro-a.html
I got told that you can get the micro also with a window in the door.
What do you think ? Price for the ggf is slightly higher.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #114 on: June 25, 2013, 08:33:21 PM »
Hi,

I am thinking about getting either the effeuno or the ggf micro a  http://www.ggf-srl.it/en/forni-per-pizza-serie-e-micro-a.html
I got told that you can get the micro also with a window in the door.
What do you think ? Price for the ggf is slightly higher.
pizzaja,
Have you seen one of the GGF ovens in action?
Sebs oven isn't available in the US.  >:(
Thanks! :chef:

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online scott123

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #115 on: June 26, 2013, 03:25:22 AM »

Online scott123

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #116 on: June 26, 2013, 03:35:40 AM »
What do you think of sub's idea of adding refractory stone to the walls of the P134H ?

Well, I'm not certain that the additional side heat is all that necessary, but, more importantly, this is a 13" wide oven- anything that subtracts from that is to be avoided, imo.  It is 16" deep, though, so perhaps a thin wall at the back might not be a bad idea. A 1/2" quarry tile might tip over, but a 1.25" firebrick split would be a little too much thermal mass and take a lot longer to pre-heat.  Something along the lines of 3/4" soapstone would probably be ideal, if you can get it.

Offline pizzaja

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #117 on: June 26, 2013, 12:09:13 PM »
pizzaja,
Have you seen one of the GGF ovens in action?
Sebs oven isn't available in the US.  >:(
Thanks! :chef:

Bob

Bob,
Haven´t seen either one in action.
You shouldn´t have a problem to get the oven to the US. The oven weights about 22kg.

Offline Seb

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #118 on: June 26, 2013, 12:17:38 PM »
Which product are you using? The one packed in a glass jar?

Those :


Offline Seb

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Re: Pizza from France
« Reply #119 on: June 26, 2013, 12:23:07 PM »
Point one : salt does not kill yeast. Maybe it put it to sleep or it wound it, but it surely does not kill it (see the bottom of my dough after 2 days at room temp).
Recipe was :
350g flour
217g water
0.01g frozen fresh yeast with 7g salt directly on it in the water.

EDIT : I'M CONFUSED, IT IS 0.1g, NOT 0.01g :(

Point two : I'm so disapointed by the lack of leoparding... It's a shame.
However the pie was really good.
ps : layering the stones was useless
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 02:53:13 PM by Seb »