Author Topic: What is the better route funding wise?  (Read 1851 times)

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Offline lungieboy

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2014, 06:18:37 PM »
Hey Gabaghool, I wish this post had come up earlier. I had a business for 23 yrs....furniture repair service. The economy squashed it in 2011. I looked into lots of businesses and although I ALWAYS loved making pizza I convinced myself that the food business is only for the pro's...so I took 80 grand and threw it a another business and in 2 years I only made back 40 g.

I lost half the investment and 2 years of my life....I had to get a job with a big company, as my wife's patience has run thin. I no longer am my own boss. What a sin...after 23 years!....and why? Because I had other ideas for business but I felt I was under funded. If I had the balls and forethought I would have done things differently, but now I shot my load....still would love to do pizza but now its a dream.


Offline gabaghool

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2014, 10:50:33 AM »
Yeah lungie

When your married theres a lot more to consider than just your own dreams......thats good and bad.  My wife is gung hoe right now about me opening a fourth store....a I appreciate her confidence in me......but it would have appreciated it a lot more when my first stores were barely breaking even.  I understand how she felt....an grouchy, worried, overworked husband who was never home to participate in raising the kids....yet, for me, there was NO OTHER WAY that I could secure a future UNLESS I made good on my dream.

I understand your pain and regret....but you have way bigger huevos than I did..the only thing Ive ever done is food.....you were entering a new world.  And I WAS SCARED.....i can't imagine the mountain you had to overcome......

And you gotta give yourself credit...i CANNOT IMAGINE, now, at this time in my life, working for someone else....i really don't think i could do it.....SO, if you are doing it, you should take a bow, its tremendously difficult.  Youre love and dedication to your family shows through...and you should be proud.  Your wife has a real man as a husband, it seems.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 10:57:50 AM by gabaghool »

Offline lungieboy

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2014, 04:08:02 PM »
Thanks Gabaghool....but to tell you the truth, I feel like shite.....

 wanted to be more pragmatic in my next business, but my wife is the dreamer and basically shamed me into going for the long shot. But when it didn't work out, she freaked out......wish I had known her nature BEFORE I invested the money. I would have told her to shut her trap, as I'm going to do what I need to do to make a living.

Now, its a matter of survival and we have separated and it looks like a divorce. People like "us" never think about working for someone else. We usually will try EVERY thing before coming to the decision to work for someone else....this comes with lots of resentment though.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2014, 09:00:06 AM »
Dude....sorry man......not fair to jump ship especially when you wanted to sail that ship when it was all shiny and new........it takes a special breed to be an entrepreneur.......people like to think of themselves as one...but most are not prepared for the uglier side of actually becomeing one.  I hope you can work your problems out....but if not.......I would jump right back into whatever feels right to you....life has a way of throwing curves......

Offline bigMoose

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2014, 04:08:11 PM »
The concept of personally signing a bank note or corporate signing it is very near to my heart.  My best friend's widow is trying to unwind his corporations in his estate settlement.  She is in the midst of a $2.5M lawsuit with a local bank.  I need to share what I learned/am learning from this fiasco...note I am not a lawyer (seek a real one for real advice)...as the end result is devastating.

Personal signature and personal guarantee is signed as:
Mr. Dave bigMoose

Corporate signature has a comma and a qualifier!
Mr. Dave bigMoose, Managing Member bigMoose Pizza LLC  or
Mr. Dave bigMoose, President bigMoose Pizza Co.

She showed me the $2.5M note that her husband signed without the qualifiers.  The bank has  foreclosed on her $750K house (she is to be evicted June 15th) and they have judgment liens on every bit of property he owned in multiple states.  The bank found every bit of property across the country and filed judgment liens on each of them!  She never knew he signed that way and thought she was "fine" financially when he suddenly passed away.    She is anything but fine.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2014, 01:42:07 PM »
Wow.....what a heartbreaking story...

Unfortunately, an all too common occurance in this industry...............

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2014, 02:37:57 PM »
She never knew he signed that way and thought she was "fine" financially when he suddenly passed away.    She is anything but fine.

Not that it will make her feel any better, but it's the language in the contract above the signature that matters. The parties to a contract are identified in the contract. You can't "qualify" anything by tweaking your signature to somehow be a different person that the one that is party to the contract. Likewise, you should not be under the impression that you are somehow protecting yourself by those additions to your signature. If anything, you may be committing fraud by signing that way.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2014, 08:22:12 PM »
I soooooo agree with this.......

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2014, 08:57:24 PM »
Not that it will make her feel any better, but it's the language in the contract above the signature that matters. The parties to a contract are identified in the contract. You can't "qualify" anything by tweaking your signature to somehow be a different person that the one that is party to the contract. Likewise, you should not be under the impression that you are somehow protecting yourself by those additions to your signature. If anything, you may be committing fraud by signing that way.

You mean you don't sign "craig, The CEO will pay if he feels like it" as opposed to just your name?

Offline bigMoose

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2014, 06:38:39 PM »
Craig as you might guess I am very interested in this... need to get it straight myself.  So qualifying your signature means nothing, you say.

I have copies of the loan documents... I just scanned them again.  The first section that I thought was relevant was:

The note in question starts with:" For value received, the undersigned XYZ LLC an XYZ state limited liability company, having and address.... hereby promises to pay to the order of Bank Name..."
This to me makes it look like this note was taken out by the corporation (LLC).

"...the bank has agreed to make this loan as requested , provided that the Guarantors jointly and severally guarantee the payment of all indetedness to be evidenced by such loan..."
Now I thought this means that if you and I sign for a loan, and I disappear the bank can go after you for the full amount, not  just 50% .  Do you agree?

Then there was this:
"This guaranty shall be binding upon the guarantors and their respective executors, administrators, personal representatives, successors, heirs and assigns, and shall inure to the benefit of the bank and its successors and assigns."
I think this, if individually signed, means the executor/administrator must deal with the indebtedness.  This is making it sound like a personal endorsement. 

Finally on the signature line it say:

By: Joe Blow, an individual 
This seemed to nail the fact that the "corporate veil" did not apply" as it was signed individually.

Now I also have copies of a previous note from years past that was signed in a corporate manner.  The trouble is when I photographed the "fine print" in the court records, it is really small and I cannot see if the above two statements are in it... raats.

The signature line IS different and says:
By: Joe Blow, Managing Member XYZ LLC

Craig your comments and insight is welcome. I REALLY want to understand this issue with respect to ensuring that note paper is signed corporately and not individually.  I scanned the entire document and the only place I could find "individual" or "individually" in the devastating note was the signature line.



« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 06:43:56 PM by bigMoose »


Offline bigMoose

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2014, 10:10:39 PM »
Update:  Thanks to a couple of PM's from a knowledgeable board member here, it now is clear that I do not have all the relevant documents.  What I had was a subsequent loan guarantee that the bank required my friend and his wife to sign personally because of the change of risk of the loan and likely some other issues that I am not privy to.  What I do not have a copy of is the original promissory note or loan documents where the bank loaned his corporation the amount of  money.

It all clicked into proper perspective with this interchange and fully supported what Craig has stated previously.   Whether his 80+ish year age at the time was relevant to his cognitive ability or whether he was deliberately misstating things I will never know...  but at least now I know the bank was and is operating legally and not with malice.

It is great to learn these things before they could impact me. 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2014, 02:00:08 AM »
It is great to learn these things before they could impact me.

Always remember, the time to talk to a lawyer is BEFORE you sign a contract.

Pizza is not bread.