Author Topic: Those of you who own pizzerias...  (Read 3697 times)

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Offline Camaro10

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Those of you who own pizzerias...
« on: May 05, 2013, 10:56:08 AM »
Ive read around a lot and been doing research about pizza shops and earnings. Now I know there are a lot of factors that go into this question such as store, location, size, menu etc etc etc...

But can everybody share a little info about their pizza shops(rent/utilities cost) and their gross and net incomes. I think this will be very helpful for those looking to get into the business.

I was thinking about the pizzerias in New York in the City and wondered how they profited since rent is extremely high although I know these shops are busy....


Offline Xander432

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2013, 10:31:07 PM »
Don't know if you've come across this article but its pretty cool and covers some well-known NY pizzerias.

http://nymag.com/restaurants/cheapeats/2009/57896/

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2013, 10:41:34 PM »
Don't know if you've come across this article but its pretty cool and covers some well-known NY pizzerias.

http://nymag.com/restaurants/cheapeats/2009/57896/
Notice no quote for Account fees..... :-D
Seriously, as an owner...would you go through all that to live a lifestyle that 55-100k take home can afford you? You'd barely be able to keep up an efficiency apartment near your joint dude.  :-\
Those are "audit" figures man.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 10:44:04 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Xander432

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2013, 11:27:37 PM »
Yeah, I figured that 900k included their 200k salary.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 11:41:05 PM »
Yeah, I figured that 900k included their 200k salary.
Exactly, my uncle Bernie would be proud of that camouflage.  ;)
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Offline Camaro10

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2013, 09:16:08 AM »
This is exactly what I was talking about. 50k take home to run a business around the clock?? Is it really worth it? Even 90k doesn't seem it to me considering all the things you have to deal with. Yea I know the old quote "do what you love" but who doesn't want to make a nice living of it.


Now I know why so many people are
Turning to catering and food trucks, less
Overhead.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2013, 02:19:53 PM »
This is exactly what I was talking about. 50k take home to run a business around the clock?? Is it really worth it? Even 90k doesn't seem it to me considering all the things you have to deal with. Yea I know the old quote "do what you love" but who doesn't want to make a nice living of it.


Now I know why so many people are
Turning to catering and food trucks, less
Overhead.

My whole life I've always know I would end up with a restaurant. Now that I'm in a position to actually do it I am definitely looking at the alternatives. My German GF is nearing retirement and I just might wait until we go over there for good and then open a guest house(German for family style restaurant/tavern)...at least I'll be able to live upstairs and have a roof over my head if business gets slow.  :)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2013, 02:58:03 PM »
My (German for family style restaurant/tavern)...at least I'll be able to live upstairs and have a roof over my head if business gets slow.  :)

And just pop down one floor for a pint or two when the mood strikes. And thanks to the internet, we won't loose you!!!!

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2013, 03:04:34 PM »
And just pop down one floor for a pint or two when the mood strikes. And thanks to the internet, we won't loose you!!!!

Mark
Yeah boyie...as long as I don't loose myself any further than I have!!   :o
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online JD

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2013, 03:26:18 PM »
Don't know if you've come across this article but its pretty cool and covers some well-known NY pizzerias.

http://nymag.com/restaurants/cheapeats/2009/57896/


I hope that's not true. How deflating to anyone thinking of opening a pizza shop. But like you said, I'm sure your 200k salary is included in those numbers.
Josh


Offline derricktung

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 03:35:02 PM »
Those margins definitely seem very slim (and inaccurate).  Perhaps some pie shop owners here are willing to share a range of what their gross and take home is?

I'm considering leaving my full time job in a couple years to go with a pie shop myself.... that article didn't help convince the wife that it was a good idea at all unfortunately.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 03:41:39 PM »
One has to define what they need in a pizzeria or any business.  Personally, I run a wholesale/retail bakery at the high school I work at.  It teaches special needs students skills needed to reach maximum independence in life.   We also sell a lot of pizzas in the style I grew up in- the Italian NYC/NJ scene. I am a paid teacher and this venture has been a wonderful gift in so many ways.  In regards to this topic it is teaching me the owner end of things.  I have worked in pizzerias and bakeries around the country but as non management/owner.

  I will retire in 9 years and plan on opening a very small pizzeria in Sonoma County California.  It will only have a few tables and no more than 500 sqft.  I own the vintage blodgett 1000 ovens in my classroom and much of the other stuff.   When I leave it goes with me.  I will work with my wife and an undocumented special needs girl that we took off the gang bang streets when she was 11.  I will make 1 size pie, with cheese, pepperoni, sausage, and mushrooms, for toppings.  I probably will make some italian bread and stromboli's, that is it.  I figure if I sell 30-40 pies, a dozen loaves of bread, few strombolis, a day starting at 11am and stop when the dough is gone I can start work at 9am each day and easily be ready by 11.  Salaries will be for the girl only.  My wife and I will just keep whatever is left over.  At 15 dollars a pie and open 4 days a week, we can make pretty good money.  I will use only top ingredients and am only interested in selling what I like to make and eat.  We live simple, have no kids, no debt, will have nice pensions, and the pizzeria will make it easy for us to live in the area.    I offer this as an example.  Now if I was supporting a family, mortgage, etc, I would never go into the pizza business because I would  have to hire people I don't really know, quality goes to crap, and would most likely have to do all the many other items you see in most pizzerias today.  I am a 1 man operation and will make all the pies, mix the dough, and sauce.   If we hire that girl I will re-teach her the basics(I taught her how to make pizza 9 years ago)  and oversee her and if she gets it I will let her make pies.  She is currently working in a pizzeria in santa rosa, ca. making pies.  She tells me they make them all wrong from the way I do :) Walter
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 04:14:17 PM by waltertore »

Offline derricktung

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 07:49:33 PM »
Waltertore - What an admirable mission and operation!  Where do you work out of right now?  I'd love to stop by sometime...

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 08:04:06 PM »
Walter,
I'm curious; how in the world did you persuade the school district to allow you to open up your bakery there with the kids? I believe you previously mentioned that this has never been done before? Amazing.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline waltertore

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 08:04:53 PM »
Waltertore - What an admirable mission and operation!  Where do you work out of right now?  I'd love to stop by sometime...

I am in Newark  Ohio which is about 40 miles due east of Columbus.   You are welcome in for a visit anytime and can make som pies with my students.   Thanks!  Walter

Offline waltertore

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 08:16:59 PM »
Walter,
I'm curious; how in the world did you persuade the school district to allow you to open up your bakery there with the kids? I believe you previously mentioned that this has never been done before? Amazing.

Bob


Hi Bob: I was a musician most of my life and saw how hard a place the world can be.  Then I got a calling to work with special needs kids, went to college and started teaching in Austin TX with hardcore special education students that were real gangsters.  I learned the first day that traditional paper and pencil academics were a lost cause.  That was in a retired home ec room and I bribed the custodian to hook up gas on an oven and we started baking simple sweets that I used for rewards if they stayed civilized.  That led to selling to the student body.  Fast forward to Sonoma County Ca and I did the same thing at Santa Rosa Middle school only there I had a nice home kitchen set up in my room and we sold to the student body and all the merchants downtown (we were located downtown).  11 years there and we moved here to OH.  Again I was able to secure a retired home ec room and we did like in Ca.  They were planning on building a new HS and I convinced them to make my room a commercial kitchen.  They figure if I fail, quit, the cafeteria will take it over so it is no big loss finacially.   The good news is no one in the district had a clue how make this a working business and I acted like I knew it all but really didn't know anything but I am a good BS'r.  Lots of hoops but it all has come together.   I had to have all the products we sell to our district and a neighboring one nutritionally analized to fit the new school wellness laws.  I have met countless kind people in the Dept Of Ag, Health Dept, business people, etc., and it all has come together.  I learned the business side as I went along and have given the district treasurer a lot of gray hairs :).   We keep getting lots of press and it is one of the few bright spots in our high school and district.  We are a multi generational welfare appalachian population.   Anyway we continue to expand and this summer I am working our bread line to sell in an upscale market in the next town Granville.  It is home to Denison university and lots of wealthy people who dig our cause and will pay good money for our artisan breads.  It is a fun venture for sure and I don't have to mortgage our house to keep it afloat.  Thanks!  Walter

PS:  People often ask me how I pulled this off.  I say if it in your heart and you follow it blindly, it will always come to be.  I know a guy now that is learning breadmaking from me and he wants to open a wood fired artisan bread shop here.  He fears the population won't support it-people tell him that.  I tell him if he sees the vision it will come to pass.  Dreams will always come true if one is willing to follow them blindly.  Most people get scared and quit dreaming.  I write about my retirement pizzeria because the more I visualize it, talk about, the closer it gets to becoming reality.  That is how I have lived my life.  My wife and I have blindly moved all over the world with no job, no family there, nothing but a calling.  That is how we ended up in Ohio. 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 08:24:30 PM by waltertore »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2013, 08:56:53 PM »
Wonderful story Walter; thank you.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 12:29:54 AM »
Those margins definitely seem very slim (and inaccurate).  Perhaps some pie shop owners here are willing to share a range of what their gross and take home is?

I'm considering leaving my full time job in a couple years to go with a pie shop myself.... that article didn't help convince the wife that it was a good idea at all unfortunately.

Seem a little strange to me too. For instance if you could acquire caputo at $35 a bag, you would have to use 260 grams of flour per skin to get the cost to be 0.40 cents each. Isn't that a little high? Also a buck to add a swirl of olive oil? That just seems insane.

Offline La Sera

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2013, 04:49:35 AM »
That's hardly a P&L.

The catch-all "Miscellaneous costs" doesn't seem enough for equipment amortization, insurance, garbage pick up, worker's compensation, and the all important "protection money" for NY.

Even so, does anyone really think that every nickel gets counted for the top line in a small business? As a business owner, I can expense an awful lot - cars, gas, insurance, home office, supplies, business dinners, etc. You need to add that back into compensation.

I net 40% of gross sales in my business. That's really, really high. Most pizza businesses in the U.S. might be about 20-25% net, but U.S. prices for pizza are low... Cutthroat low.

Offline derricktung

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Re: Those of you who own pizzerias...
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2013, 01:22:48 PM »
That's hardly a P&L.

The catch-all "Miscellaneous costs" doesn't seem enough for equipment amortization, insurance, garbage pick up, worker's compensation, and the all important "protection money" for NY.

Even so, does anyone really think that every nickel gets counted for the top line in a small business? As a business owner, I can expense an awful lot - cars, gas, insurance, home office, supplies, business dinners, etc. You need to add that back into compensation.

I net 40% of gross sales in my business. That's really, really high. Most pizza businesses in the U.S. might be about 20-25% net, but U.S. prices for pizza are low... Cutthroat low.

You can definitely expense a whole lot, which helps with reducing your cost of living, true.  It's doesn't count as pure take home income though, but you're right, it's still a form of compensation which is pretty significant, even if it's strictly (supposedly) for the business.

40% net of your gross?  That's pretty impressive... I'll be curious to see what my net will be from the farmer's market venture we're doing.

@Jeffereynelson - As La Sera alludes to, don't forget about the rest of your costs that have to be accounted for... equipment, hiring workers, rent, liability, pest control, advertising (though you could in theory just use social media nowadays), benefits for workers, professional memberships, etc.  It's not just ingredient costs that you have to pay out... which leads to the up charge. 

Also, you'll have to remember you can't divide the cost of flour strictly by the weight for how many doughballs you can get... after all, some flour will be used for coating your hands, or coating the dough balls when you prepare to stretch, etc.  Unless you plan to micromanage to that degree and count how much flour you use on the bench for prepping the dough (which would be maddening, even to me), you'll have to account for some fudge factor.


 

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