Author Topic: Blackstone Pizza Oven  (Read 376036 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3960 on: May 09, 2014, 12:16:16 AM »
Thanks Dave!  That looks like a plan.  I'll put the 10psi regulator back on, and get the longer bar stock for the platter and be back where I was before.

I guess I should try and determine what a 'safe' PSI level is and put some sort of visual indicator on the knob so that I don't melt another oven.  If only they just made 7.5 psi regulators!
They do...try using a regulator from a regular ole gas grill. They close.

CB
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3961 on: May 09, 2014, 08:49:53 AM »
BlackStone just replaced my older base for a new patio oven base
When turned on high you would get Flames where the temp control is at with the older unit{a few months old}
But keeping the Temp on the older Blackstone at Med you will Not see flames (temp is like 900}
So I feel I should keep the New  patio oven base  as a replacement if needed.
Not a good thing not having a Recall at all on the older Blackstones and makes Blackstone
for a class action lawsuit since Flames should not be coming out from the front control knob......................JT
A few comments in the interest of safety and clarity.

Most residential gas grills operate at less than 1psi, Blackstone maxes out at 5 psi or 10 psi depending on the regulator (red valve near the propane tank).  Owners with a 10psi regulators can dial linearly back to any pressure (eg 5psi, 1psi or zero) by turning the red valve.  The burner and regulator have been commonly sold for years in turkey-fryer burners at Home Depot, for example, so the reliability in those components is well tested.  I'm not aware of a recall on any of these items (burner, regulator, front control knob or valve).  A small percentage of Blackstone owners have seen a flame near the control valve, and in my opinion, every one of those owners should contact Blackstone and get it fixed.
Dave

Offline johnnytuinals

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3962 on: May 09, 2014, 10:21:01 AM »
I happen too agree anyone that has Flames should call BlackStone.
But my point is
Everyone on the site knows about the problems with Flames coming out of the front Control knob as the only way too turn the grill off is to turn the propane tank off(if you are not watching ,the controls will burn and melt not good}
Many people have bought these from Homdepot,Lowes,Ace,Amazon and Ect and have No clue about
this good site and also Not knowing about the flame problems that can happen,
Its like buying a Webber Grill from Homedepot and having flames coming out of the front,I am sure 99% of us would be very mad that Weber would say nothing about the problem that they knew about.
That's why I cannot believe BlackStone has nothing on their site about this problem......JT

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3963 on: May 09, 2014, 10:39:09 AM »
They do...try using a regulator from a regular ole gas grill. They close.

CB
My bad. Actually a low pressure(6ounce) common gas grill is only .375 psi.
For some reason I thought they were around 5psi.

http://extraconversion.com/pressure/ounces-per-square-inch/ounces-per-square-inch-to-pounds-per-square-inch.html#.U2znr3bzqkw
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 10:41:03 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3964 on: May 09, 2014, 03:03:46 PM »
I happen too agree anyone that has Flames should call BlackStone.
But my point is
Everyone on the site knows about the problems with Flames coming out of the front Control knob as the only way too turn the grill off is to turn the propane tank off(if you are not watching ,the controls will burn and melt not good}
Many people have bought these from Homdepot,Lowes,Ace,Amazon and Ect and have No clue about
this good site and also Not knowing about the flame problems that can happen,
Its like buying a Webber Grill from Homedepot and having flames coming out of the front,I am sure 99% of us would be very mad that Weber would say nothing about the problem that they knew about.
That's why I cannot believe BlackStone has nothing on their site about this problem......JT
I think your points are well-made Johnny.  From what I know, not many owners have experienced the flame issue.  And for those that have seen an issue, there could be multiple causes, some of which are common in other gas outdoor grilling devices.  Besides the standard grill issues, possible leaks near the BS black dial flame can be caused by a leaky gas-cock valve, or a missing or bad O-ring between the valve and fuel line, or an incorrectly tuned air intake to the burner (maybe a few others).

From a forum safety perspective, I think the best advice is to sniff around before flame on and use a soapy spray bottle on connections to make sure they are tight.  Propane is easy to smell as it has a distinctive odor and is heavier than air so it falls toward the floor from the leak location. 

In general, if the wind is calm, and you can't smell gas, you don't have a problem.  In my case, I never had a flashback flame but I smelled a little propane on a calm day and found it to be a very small (few bubble) leak - so it doesn't take much to notice.  To better understand what was going on I took the the whole oven apart.  Here is the link if you want the details http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26507.msg279722#msg279722.  In the second photo, you will see very few bubbles around the valve - and I  don't have a particularly long (or cute) snout. :chef:

Newer versions of the Blackstone have sheet metal screws allowing access to the valve area.  If you have an older-style oven and want to investigate, here is the link that describes how: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26507.msg273659#msg273659.  The photo below is copied from this post.  It shows the leak problem areas described above.  The number 3 shows where where the gas-cock might leak.  The number 2 shows the O-ring junction between the gray valve and black fuel line.  Then number 1 shows the air intake to the burner.  You might imagine that if the screw above #1 is loosened, the plate could be turned to close off the opening.

Most readers are not going to be interested in fiddling with this oven, and they shouldn't have to.  When you first set up the oven, or when you change a bottle of gas, slowly open the tank valve and red regulator so that gas can flow to the black control valve on the oven.  Before you open that valve and press the ignitor, sniff around the tank, the connection between the black tank hose and the back of the oven and under the black dial valve.  No odor, no problem.

Offline johnnytuinals

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3965 on: May 09, 2014, 09:25:04 PM »
There is No smell of propane
Can have the temp control on Med and get a temp over 900
But turning it on High,thats when most of the problems begin.

There should be No problems when it comes too propane gas grill..I am always on the Weber Gas grill Site and never have I heard of a flame coming out of a weber grill other then the top of the grill.

To me I feel BlackStone should do the  responsible thing and posting about the flames on their website or maybe recall the older ones.(that's the right thing too do as a company}Not like GM waiting 10 years before they recalled cars with problems 10 years late........JT

Offline rbaker6

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3966 on: May 09, 2014, 10:54:47 PM »
I got my Blackstone pizza oven back in November of last year, and have yet to cook a pizza on it.  It had the 10 psi regulator and flames came out of the valve and melted the temperature knob when I finally got the guts to turn it on after reading the safety posts here.

Blackstone was fully cooperative and professional in replacing the base unit.  The new base unit has a 5 PSI regulator.  I found out there are a few parts you may need that don't come with the base unit, and they won't include them if you don't ask:  a new temperature knob to replace the melted one, and a longer key stock.  Luckily I read a post here so when I didn't get those parts I contacted Blackstone again and they shipped them to me.  Finally, I discovered I'd lost the collar for the platter parting out the old oven, and Blackstone shipped me that too which just arrived.

I fired it up and it seems much safer than it was  before, but I have the same concerns about it not cooking NP pizzas if I ever get to that level.  The original reviews were the whole reason I bought it in the first place, to make restaurant quality pizza.  The flame is no longer scary.  But I'm a long way from that, I just want to cook anything in it for the first time, likely a low temp bake.  :D

Maybe I will attach the 10  psi hose and regulator from my old oven, but I wonder why the regulator was changed?  Was that not the cause of the problem, or was it a defective valve?  I had the 10 psi regulator turned down several turns when the melting occurred, so it was not running at 10 psi.  Should the 5 PSI regulator be run full power?

Blackstone said all the issues were due to probable shipping damage, they are aware of no known issues with the first generation ovens.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3967 on: May 10, 2014, 12:38:33 AM »
johnny and Baker....
Thank you for the concise, well thought posts you guys have contributed.

I will say it here yet once more.....

When a loved one, small child walking by and their hair catches fire....or your lady in her fashionable flammable skirt walks past the "flamethrower" valve at just the right inopportune moment.....there is going to be HELL to pay.

Dave "Tampa"...you're a smart guy. How can this be fixed before someone gets hurt?

Thank you for your help.

Bob
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 10:35:03 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline johnnytuinals

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3968 on: May 10, 2014, 09:20:02 AM »
I have too agree with Bob(did not care about this subject at first till it happened too me}
Someone will have too get hurt first before they will do anything
But then again I am sure they are a very small company and can care less
cause they can always open up under a New name if something does goes wrong........JT

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3969 on: May 10, 2014, 12:10:15 PM »
I think Dave did some research on this originally, if not he will let us know, and arrived at the conclusion that all gas knobs leak and they are rated in terms of how much gas will leak out the shaft under certain conditions.  That is, since the knob turns, the opening for the shaft must be slightly larger than the shaft or the shaft will stick and will not turn.  ( for example, if you mill a hole that is exactly .250 diameter, and try to take a shaft that is .0002 smaller in diameter, you will need a press to force  it into the hole, but it will not rotate)  My recollection is that the amount of gas that leaks depends on how well the knob assembly is machined, how high the pressure is at the supply side of the knob, where the propane is coming from, and how high the back pressure on the downstream side of the knob, in our case the burner.  For the BS, no big surprise, the valve assembly is not the highest precision.  Also, the burner is a high pressure burner, which means the back pressure is much more than you would get with your standard gas grill.  With the red regulator, if you turned it all the way up, you then put the valve under the worst conditions and you could end up with more gas escaping than if the supply was at a lower level.  I don't work for BS, but my guess is that they tested and found that if they kept the input gas at or under 5 psi, the amount of gas that would leak out the shaft would not be enough to ignite.  Of course, if the shaft gets hit during shipping, and the valve assembly loosens up, that would change things.   I don't mean to downplay the concern, obviously, you don't want to set someone or their house on fire.  I actually have a little experience with a propane torch with the same issue - shaft must have developed a burr, and the plastic knob of the propane torch caught fire -  to make things worse, the knob is the only way to turn off the propane.  Fortunately,  I was able to blow out the flame and then using gloves, turn off the knob, but agree that is not a good place to be.   


Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3970 on: May 10, 2014, 04:28:17 PM »
There is No smell of propane. But turning it on High, that's when most of the problems begin.
JT
Johnny - Good for you in being persistent.  I love that.  It is difficult to write "I disagree" the first time, even harder the second, and very few are still standing the third time.  Oven safety is important, and I am glad you are speaking up with your experience.  'No evidence of a gas leak until the flame is on high' - is new to me.  In my case I had a minuscule leak, no dial flame, and I decided to take the oven and valve apart to investigate.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26507.msg279722#msg279722t

Dave "Tampa"...you're a smart guy. How can this be fixed before someone gets hurt?
Bob
Thanks for the kind words C.Bob.  If I had an answer I would post it.  The best I can offer is a valve that Larry (thezaman) and I have played with from Tejas Smokers https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26507.msg312006#msg312006.  Unfortunately it costs something like $35 with all the fiddly bits included and is a bugger to retrofit - way beyond what most owners would endure.  I even tried to talk Larry out of doing the retrofit, but he is a bit like Johnny. :-D

Fortunately this forum is filled with sharp, collaborative people.  If you have a good idea, please share.

Thanks Barry.  I did do research on this gas cock valve several times I just didn't find an inexpensive solution that would perform well in this 5-10 psi environment.

Dave

Offline johnnytuinals

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3971 on: May 10, 2014, 09:55:45 PM »
I have had my Blackstone grill since last sept of 2013 (Groupon}but have not put it together till a few weeks ago since I wanted the weather to be better.
I have read most of this tread with very little input from me since mine was still in the box..
Blackstone did the right thing in sending me a New patio oven base to replace the one I have now.(but will kept the replacement as a spare since I don't turn the old one on High anymore}
Yep I have read many ways to try and get rid of the Flame problem(No reason why we should,blackstone should solve it}
As of now I am still a happy champper owning a Blackstone
Yep it does have problems but its wise to be near the Grill all the time till the pie gets done.....JT

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3972 on: May 10, 2014, 10:24:41 PM »
I have had my Blackstone grill since last sept of 2013 (Groupon}but have not put it together till a few weeks ago since I wanted the weather to be better.
I have read most of this tread with very little input from me since mine was still in the box..
Blackstone did the right thing in sending me a New patio oven base to replace the one I have now.(but will kept the replacement as a spare since I don't turn the old one on High anymore}
Yep I have read many ways to try and get rid of the Flame problem(No reason why we should,blackstone should solve it}
As of now I am still a happy champper owning a Blackstone
Yep it does have problems but its wise to be near the Grill all the time till the pie gets done.....JT
You got that right.
Even automobiles get recalls for free fix on items that don't have anything to do with throwing damn flames out at the user.(Ford Pinto's not included :o)

CB
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Tampa

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Whole Wheat Record Holder is ... not me
« Reply #3973 on: May 13, 2014, 02:24:51 PM »
I made a bunch of pies for Mothers Day using BarryVaBeach’s Whole Wheat recipe, Craig’s sourdough recipe, and Whole Foods Whole Grain dough.  The Chauflector was out of adjustment, so teasing a good pie out of the oven was, um, “special”.  Expletives were considered, but none were spoken.

The first pie picture is Arugula, egg, and cheese on a Whole Wheat crust.  My daughter orders one every week now from Pizza Hacker, and she substantially “demanded” that I recreate his masterpiece.  Kids!  The result was pretty tasty (if you can look past the over-charred crumb. The whole wheat recipe was 60% White, 40% Red at 82% hydration.  In sum it was a wet mess coming out of the plastic container.  Bench flour was all over the place and it shows up on the rim.  The discerning eye will detect molasses in the dough as this was intended to replicate the sweetness of the Mellow Mushroom pie with a Hacker lawn on top.

Note the sneaky addition of John Conk’s GI metal peel in a couple of photos.  I’ve been thinking about trying one for a while, but at the Pizza Expo, several of the experts said “GI peels are the best”, so I dug deep and ordered one.  I’ve tried lots of different wood peels and metal peels but I agree that this one is the best.  The finish is a little different, and even though I was throwing really wet dough, I never lost a pie.  I launched with a raw egg on top and the egg stayed in the center, and I’m not a magician.  So as far as conventional peels are concerned (i.e. non SuperPeels), I’m a fan.  (Maybe I can coerce Bobino into buying one.)

Theodore the dog wanted a piece of that Whole Foods whole grain dough.  From a flavor perspective, that dough is still my favorite.  Turns out you can’t buy the flour (General Mills whole wheat) at the Whole Foods store – only the dough ball.

The roses picture highlights the exceptional crumb from GM 00 flour.  We have been baking with San Felice flour and the rim has been nothing like what GM serves up.  The gluten strength is also noticeably greater with GM over San Felice requiring a few minutes stretched on the bench to avoid springback during saucing.

I haven’t figured out what to do with Whole Wheat.  In my quest to live forever eating pizza, I want to switch over, but that only works until tempted by a weakness for X (where X = Chicago Deep Dish, anything Varasano makes, most of Tony’s pies, Bobino’s Sicilian or Bananas Foster pie, that Detroit mess…). 

I know, I’ve got a problem. :chef:

Dave

Offline caymus

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Re: Whole Wheat Record Holder is ... not me
« Reply #3974 on: May 13, 2014, 07:14:56 PM »
I made a bunch of pies for Mothers Day
Dave

 I didn't know you had such nice legs :-D

Offline Tampa

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Re: Whole Wheat Record Holder is ... not me
« Reply #3975 on: May 13, 2014, 08:47:21 PM »
I didn't know you had such nice legs :-D
I like to look nice.
Dave

Offline SandyJ

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3976 on: May 13, 2014, 09:57:55 PM »
Hi, I'm new to the forum.  I've been working my way through this thread all week and am up to about post 85.  My eyes are bleary and I have indelible images in my brain of underwear yeast, unicorn tears, stone licking and clamocide (you know innocent people are reading this, right?...).  I can display my complete ignorance by asking - what's up with all the burnt pizzas?

Anywho, I need a little info (and it will be a while before I am finished with the whole thing, so if these things have been addressed already, mea culpa).

1.  Has anyone tried baking pita bread on this thing?

2.  With all the reported shipping damage, is it worth paying more to buy locally?

According to Lowes on-line info, all the local stores are due to receive 15 BS's each (dfw = a LOT of Lowes.  Not to mention Cabalas).  At $399 + 8.5% sales tax (we don't have state income tax), it will come out to about $60 more than Griddle Guru.  I am hoping for a Memorial Day grill sale that will include the BS's, but no telling if they will arrive in time or be included in a sale.  So, is the extra $60 worth the piece of mind?  And have those buying locally gotten undamaged goods?

Thanks for any help and sorry for the 'burnt pizza' sacrilege.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Whole Wheat Record Holder is ... not me
« Reply #3977 on: May 14, 2014, 12:17:46 AM »
I like to look nice.
Dave
Is that dog you're holding real or just a prop?  ;D

CB
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3978 on: May 14, 2014, 07:15:48 AM »
Sandy,  I made a few test pitas and they were fine. In terms of shipping damage, I received one last year, and the packing was not very good.  I received one for a friend about a month ago, and the packaging was much improved.  There are no hard data on damages in shipping, but if it were me, I am always looking for a bargain and I would take the chance since you say the cost difference is $60, and in the end, even if there is some damage, from all reports BS will send you the replacement parts.   In terms of burnt pizzas, while some people have great success on their first pies, it takes most of us a few pizzas to get used to the heat output of the BS.

Offline Tampa

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Re: Blackstone Pizza Oven
« Reply #3979 on: May 14, 2014, 08:48:23 AM »
Sandy,  I made a few test pitas and they were fine. In terms of shipping damage, I received one last year, and the packing was not very good.  I received one for a friend about a month ago, and the packaging was much improved.  There are no hard data on damages in shipping, but if it were me, I am always looking for a bargain and I would take the chance since you say the cost difference is $60, and in the end, even if there is some damage, from all reports BS will send you the replacement parts.   In terms of burnt pizzas, while some people have great success on their first pies, it takes most of us a few pizzas to get used to the heat output of the BS.
^^^

SandyJ - Love the humor (and your courage) in your 2nd forum post.  Score!

C.Bob - Teddy is my daughter's dog - he lives in SF and frequents Alamo Sq Park.  If you, or anyone, sees him tell Theodore that his grandad is still isn't "over" his recent attempt to mark the back seat of my new car.  The trouble is, that mutt has a lot of personality so it is difficult to stay mad for very long. :D

Dave


 

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