Author Topic: Why is my dough super sticky?  (Read 559 times)

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Offline tbear

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Why is my dough super sticky?
« on: October 25, 2014, 10:52:34 PM »
Hi Everyone. Thanks in advance for any help.

I've had some great success using Lehman's calculator. I mix enough for 2 pies at a time. I hand mix 75% Divella tipo 00 flour and 100% water, let rest 20 minutes, then add the remaining 25% flour and salt. I mix using the slap and fold method. I let rest again 2-3 hours at room temp (80f). But this most recent attempt the dough was super sticky. I kept mixing but it's still so sticky that I can't roll the dough into balls. I added more flour, but it's still too sticky.
This is the formula I used:
Flour (100%):    351.72 g  |  12.41 oz | 0.78 lbs
Water (63%):    221.59 g  |  7.82 oz | 0.49 lbs
IDY (.4%):    1.41 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
Salt (1.9%):    6.68 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.2 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Total (165.3%):   581.4 g | 20.51 oz | 1.28 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   290.7 g | 10.25 oz | 0.64 lbs

The only thing I changed from the previous successful batch was I increased the dough ball weight by 15 g. I abandoned this attempt. I left it our overnight and the ball has tripled in size. I still can't roll into two balls as its still too sticky. Should I throw away and start over? How can I avoid this next time?


Offline norma427

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 11:01:27 PM »
Hi Everyone. Thanks in advance for any help.
Should I throw away and start over?

tbear,

You could try what I do with my Detroit style dough, or some other sticky dough balls I didn't want.  I put a small mound of flour on the bench.  Then I dip the dough ball in the flour and partly ball.  If it is still sticky I do that a few more times before fully balling.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2014, 11:04:09 PM »
Your statement about how many times you have had success is wishy washy. 
You need to carefully measure my friend.  That is the problem in this case.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 11:08:32 PM »
tbear,

You could try what I do with my Detroit style dough, or some other sticky dough balls I didn't want.  I put a small mound of flour on the bench.  Then I dip the dough ball in the flour and partly ball.  If it is still sticky I do that a few more times before fully balling.

Norma
That completely changes the formula....might as well use a bread machine to mix/knead it too.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 11:43:17 PM »
That completely changes the formula....might as well use a bread machine to mix/knead it too.

Bob,

If you can ball dough balls with flour I don't think using a little extra flour really changes the formula a lot.  At least tbear might not have to discard his dough balls.

Norma
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Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2014, 12:24:35 AM »
You must of mismeasured somehow. I have done it.  it happens.  A little more bench flour should bring you into line.  Don't throw it out just add flour and use it,.

Offline fagilia

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 02:52:28 AM »
If i ferment in room temp with high hydration dough i lower bulk temp to 19.t celsius 1 hour before balling. From 23 to 19 is big difference. High hydration dough that is much fermented before balling is also easier to ball. Also fold and rest in 10 min intervals until dough is tight helps me before bulk ferment. I use now over 70 percent water as experiment and no problem. It is posible.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 01:32:52 PM »
tbear,

You mentioned that you used 75% 00 flour. What was the other flour for the remaining 25%?

Peter

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2014, 06:04:05 PM »
Peter
I think he meant 75% of the flour was added to all of the water mixed and then rested for 20 minutes then the remaining 25% of the flour along with the salt was added after the rest.  I think it was all 00. At least that is how I read it.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2014, 06:26:46 PM »
Peter
I think he meant 75% of the flour was added to all of the water mixed and then rested for 20 minutes then the remaining 25% of the flour along with the salt was added after the rest.  I think it was all 00. At least that is how I read it.
Ahh. I read the post too fast. Thank you for catching that. Then, what I would say is that a hydration of 63% is quite a bit above the rated hydration values of most 00 flours, which is roughly in the 57-58% range. Coupling an above average hydration value (63%) with 2-3 hours and 20 minutes of fermentation at around 80 degrees F may have led to a condition where some of the water was released from its bond, leading to a wet and sticky dough. The protease enzymes quite likely attacked the gluten structure and contributed to the release of water from its bond. It's not entirely clear when pbear used the dough to make pizzas. He talked about leaving a previous dough out overnight but it is not clear if that is what he did with the most recent dough.

Peter


Offline Montyzumo

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 06:34:56 PM »
I use Divella 00 and 63% water and it balls up nicely. There is however a bread machine involved and it doesn't sound like that is the done thing round here!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2014, 06:47:29 PM »
I use Divella 00 and 63% water and it balls up nicely. There is however a bread machine involved and it doesn't sound like that is the done thing round here!
Montyzumo,

Can you explain the cycle that your dough goes through, including the total knead time and temperatures and whether the machine goes through the entire cycle, much as it would if you were making bread dough?

Peter

Offline dineomite

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2014, 11:31:51 PM »
I don't know anything about bread machines, but if you've used your technique with success in the past then I'm putting my money on an incorrect measurement somewhere along the line. I've done it before. I'd just pitch it and start over.

Offline Montyzumo

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 08:18:08 AM »
Montyzumo,

Can you explain the cycle that your dough goes through, including the total knead time and temperatures and whether the machine goes through the entire cycle, much as it would if you were making bread dough?

Peter
Too be honest, I'm not that sure on the cycle details. It is a 45min programme  specifically for  pizza dough that begins mixing right from the start. I run it with the lid open and pull the dough out after the last mixing action finishes (around. 35 - 40 min mark). If  I leave it in, then it starts getting warm. Sorry for my inexactness - it works for me and I haven't explored what happens yet.

The Divella 00 dough is the pizza variety.

I have not really worked on dough so far- i'm still taking baby steps. I now have my oven right for me, my sauce tasting good, and will start working on dough next. i want to try hand kneaded dough compared to my bread makers results (panasonic SD-257). Then I will look at removing the IDY for a starter.



Would humidity affect this - as my only experience of Thailand was feeling hot and sticky like the dough ballls in question :D

Offline Montyzumo

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 08:26:00 AM »
One thing that facinated me on the dough recipe was the 0.4% IDY. If I used that much I would end up with inflatable pillows. Was this a typo? The last batch i made had 0.03% which was for a 24hour rise at about 18%

Online PrimeRib

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2014, 09:06:39 AM »

One thing that facinated me on the dough recipe was the 0.4% IDY. If I used that much I would end up with inflatable pillows. Was this a typo? The last batch i made had 0.03% which was for a 24hour rise at about 18%

Are you saying that for 1,000 g of flour, you use 0.3 g of IDY? 

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2014, 09:44:39 AM »
Too be honest, I'm not that sure on the cycle details. It is a 45min programme  specifically for  pizza dough that begins mixing right from the start. I run it with the lid open and pull the dough out after the last mixing action finishes (around. 35 - 40 min mark). If  I leave it in, then it starts getting warm. Sorry for my inexactness - it works for me and I haven't explored what happens yet.

The Divella 00 dough is the pizza variety.

I have not really worked on dough so far- i'm still taking baby steps. I now have my oven right for me, my sauce tasting good, and will start working on dough next. i want to try hand kneaded dough compared to my bread makers results (panasonic SD-257). Then I will look at removing the IDY for a starter.
Montyzumo,

Your bread maker as you described it will do a much more effective job of hydrating the flour, even at 63%, and at kneading the dough to full gluten development, than one can usually do by hand. We have had members who could work with high hydration values with 00 flour, like Marco (pizzanapoletana) who used hydration values above 65% with Caputo 00 flour, but it takes real skill and a lot of experience to be able to work with doughs at such high hydration values.

Peter

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Re: Why is my dough super sticky?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2014, 09:58:01 AM »
One thing that facinated me on the dough recipe was the 0.4% IDY. If I used that much I would end up with inflatable pillows. Was this a typo? The last batch i made had 0.03% which was for a 24hour rise at about 18%
Montyzumo,

If the dough was used by pbear after the final 2-3 hour fermentation, which would have meant an emergency type dough, I do not think that 0.40% IDY would have been too much. However, if he left the dough out overnight, at a temperature of 80 degrees F, then by morning he would have had a real mess on his hands.

In your case, the 0.03% IDY seems to be in the ballpark. You mentioned 18%, but I believe you meant 18 degrees C (64.4 degrees F), and if that is the case, your yeast quantity would not be out of line even if the long knead time imparted a fair amount of heat to the dough.

Peter


 

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