Author Topic: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?  (Read 1403 times)

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Offline Camaro10

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Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« on: May 15, 2013, 10:39:03 AM »
I went to a new NY pizza place in town a few days ago and orded a 16" pepperoni pie. I must say I was skeptic as usual but the pizza was pretty tasty. What made it stand out was the crust. It had a shine to it and it didnt give off that dry look that we are used to. Even the bottom of the pizza the crust was shiney and a perfect golden brown as well as flakey. It also look as well as tasted like they brushed the crust as well as the bottom with EVOO before baking.

It was baked using a screen bc I could see the markings.
Anythoughts on this? I almost want to try it out. :chef:


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 12:09:20 PM »
C;
Since it was baked on a screen, I'm guessing that the oil might have been from the dough ball itself. Pressed dough balls are literally dripping in oil, and I've seen even hand tossed dough balls dripping in oil.I would seriously doubt that anyone would go to the trouble, at the pizzeria level to apply oil to the bottom of the crust. To the inside bottom of the crust yes, since when used this way it helps to reduce moisture migration from the toppings into the crust (especially helpful during DELCO conditions). Some pizzerias do brush the outer edge/rim of the baked pizza with olive oil to improve the appearance and flavor of the crust (especially the edge).
Did you happen to get a look at the screens the pizzas were baked on? If they were extremely dark/black in color and appeared to be carboned up, there is a possibility that they were oiling the screens to compensate for gunked up screens, which do not exhibit the best release properties, some of that oil would be transferred to the bottom of the pizza skin as it is placed onto the screen.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 02:25:03 PM »
Camaro10,

Several years ago, while I was at LaGuardia waiting for a flight home, I positioned myself just outside of a La Famiglia pizzeria at that airport so that I could watch one of the pizza makers make pizza. I noticed that he took dough balls out of their metal proofing pans and opened them up to form skins directly on a work surface that was well oiled using a squirt bottle if I recall correctly. This oil apparently was in lieu of bench flour. The dressed pizzas were baked in deck ovens but I do not recall whether they were baked on screens or went directly into the oven. In a home setting using an electric oven, you have to be a bit careful using oil on screens or perforated disks because too much oil can drip through the screens or the holes in the perforated disks and hit the lower heating coil and create a lot of smoke. I did this once with a perforated disk and set off my smoke alarm system when I opened the oven door to see what was going on.

Peter

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 02:35:14 PM »
Peter;
If the pizza skin is opened on an oiled table and baked directly on the hearth two things will happen. One is lots of smoke and the second is that with time (not very much of it either) the deck will become very well seasoned and literally carboned over effectively reducing its heat transfer properties, then it's time to break out the can of Carbon-Off, a few sheets of coarse sand paper, and a good deck scraper to undo the damage. Like you, I learned the hard way.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 02:40:00 PM »
Peter;
I forgot to add, that this is most likely the reason why the pizzas are baked on a screen as these issues would be mitigated or alteast greatly reduced in severity. When I did the work many years ago we were trying to achieve a fried characteristic on a hearth baked pizza.
Tom Lehmann/TDD

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 02:50:24 PM »
Tom,

I also wondered what would happen putting a bottom-oiled skin in a deck oven. In retrospect, it is possible that only one surface of the skin was oiled and that became the top of the pizza. I say this because the worker used a peel. And, in so doing, he used one of your favorite tricks (just kidding)--blowing under the dressed pizza to load it into the oven, which wouldn't have been necessary if screens were used. I previously reported on this matter at Reply 13 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23801.msg242407/topicseen.html#msg242407.

Peter

Offline waltertore

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 05:03:43 PM »
I grew up eating Star Tavern Pizzas.   They put them on oiled pans and let them sit on the deck for a few and then finish them direct on the deck.  Many in the NYC area consider their pizzas to be a real gem.  I call their cheese pie one of the best around.  I don't go for all the topping stuff.  I like cheese, bread, sauce....   Here is a link to their setup.  Walter

PS:  their pies have the sauce/toppings right to the edge and the ovens are smoking a lot from the edges running onto the deck and are constantly being scraped out.  If you ever get a chance to see the place go there.  Plus you get watch it all being done right in front of you.   

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/01/star-tavern-best-bar-pizza-orange-nj.html
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:12:56 PM by waltertore »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 09:43:57 PM »
I grew up eating Star Tavern Pizzas.   They put them on oiled pans and let them sit on the deck for a few and then finish them direct on the deck.  Many in the NYC area consider their pizzas to be a real gem.  I call their cheese pie one of the best around.  I don't go for all the topping stuff.  I like cheese, bread, sauce....   Here is a link to their setup.  Walter

PS:  their pies have the sauce/toppings right to the edge and the ovens are smoking a lot from the edges running onto the deck and are constantly being scraped out.  If you ever get a chance to see the place go there.  Plus you get watch it all being done right in front of you.   

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/01/star-tavern-best-bar-pizza-orange-nj.html
Now that is my kinda pizza...thanks Walter!  Do you ever make this at school for yourself in those sweet "lil Blodgett's?

Do you think this would work on a stone; after initial pan deal. I guess the pan it basically the vehichel to get the oil on the pan. What temp would be needed you think?   Thanks!!

Bob
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Offline waltertore

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2013, 06:49:03 AM »
Now that is my kinda pizza...thanks Walter!  Do you ever make this at school for yourself in those sweet "lil Blodgett's?

Do you think this would work on a stone; after initial pan deal. I guess the pan it basically the vehichel to get the oil on the pan. What temp would be needed you think?   Thanks!!

Bob

Hi Bob:  Star uses Blodgett 1000's.   Yes it works fine after first sitting on the pan to absorb the oil.  They bake at aprrox 500 degrees.  I have fooled around with their method.  I have several of the deep dish pans cut away like you see in the pictures.  They also roll out their dough with rolling pins.  I am not sure what flour(s) they use and my attempts come out ok but nothing like theirs.  I am not that interested on recreating others pies.  I prefer to keep tweaking my own.   If I have time, I will mess with it today and see how things come out.  Walter

here are some photos that show them making the pies. You have to scroll through a bunch to find them.
http://startavern.net/photos.html
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 10:03:36 AM by waltertore »

Offline waltertore

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 02:05:34 PM »
I made one today ala Star style- rolled out pan oiled with olive pomace oil.  I had the ovens at 550.  It was too hot.   The bottom browned faster than the top.  The crust had the flavor and chewiness but was not quite done enough-lacked that little bit of crisp their pies have.   The top browned/carmalized around the edges real nice.    I will try again at 500.  I know they take about 10 mintues to cook their pies.  They actually told me they run at 450 but I never believe what NYC area pizza places tell you about their stuff.....  Walter
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 02:08:35 PM by waltertore »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 05:48:52 PM »
I made one today ala Star style- rolled out pan oiled with olive pomace oil.  I had the ovens at 550.  It was too hot.   The bottom browned faster than the top.  The crust had the flavor and chewiness but was not quite done enough-lacked that little bit of crisp their pies have.   The top browned/carmalized around the edges real nice.    I will try again at 500.  I know they take about 10 mintues to cook their pies.  They actually told me they run at 450 but I never believe what NYC area pizza places tell you about their stuff.....  Walter
Sounds good; glad you are playing around with this right now. You have stone decks on your Blodgett 1000's correct Walter? Oh, are you rolling out your school dough?  Thanks!  :chef:

Bob
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:50:24 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline waltertore

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2013, 06:30:41 PM »
Hi Bob:  Yes my ovens have the original stone decks.  I do roll out the dough when attempting a Star clone.  On my pies they are hand tossed/stretched.  The Star inspired pies really make a mess of the stones with the edges running onto to them.  I hope to get back to NJ this summer and stop by and do several order and  watch sessions.  I use to have a connection there but they are long gone.  Back then I was more into eating them than figuring how they made them cause I never planned on moving out of NJ- no need to mess with making their style when the place was a 1/2 mile from my childhood house.  My friends and I would walk there after school and eat them on the walk home.  We didn't have enough money to sit and eat- would have to leave a tip and back then the standard tip was like 1/2 the price of a pie........   The pizza gigs I had were of the traditional NY/NJ style toss and direct to stone approach. Walter
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 06:35:08 PM by waltertore »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2013, 06:49:51 PM »
Hi Bob:  Yes my ovens have the original stone decks.  I do roll out the dough when attempting a Star clone.  On my pies they are hand tossed/stretched.  The Star inspired pies really make a mess of the stones with the edges running onto to them.  I hope to get back to NJ this summer and stop by and do several order and  watch sessions.  I use to have a connection there but they are long gone.  Back then I was more into eating them than figuring how they made them cause I never planned on moving out of NJ- no need to mess with making their style when the place was a 1/2 mile from my childhood house.  My friends and I would walk there after school and eat them on the walk home.  We didn't have enough money to sit and eat- would have to leave a tip and back then the standard tip was like 1/2 the price of a pie........   The pizza gigs I had were of the traditional NY/NJ style toss and direct to stone approach. Walter
Thanks; sorry I wasn't clear. I know ya'll hand stretch the pies at school and just didn't know if you were using that same NY pie dough on your rolled out Star Tavern pizza experiments.  ;)

Bob
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Offline waltertore

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2013, 07:52:59 PM »
Bob: I am using our regular dough.  The oil on the pan really changes the texture.  I have heard Star has semolina flour in its dough.  I don't want to get into having 2 different doughs.  I would forsee lots of wasted dough at the end of the week with where our sales are currently.  But I will most likely mess around with developing a decent dough with both flours over the summer when school is out.  When I open my own place on retirement it might be cool to offer both styles of pies.   Walter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2013, 08:11:51 PM »
Bob: I am using our regular dough.  The oil on the pan really changes the texture.  I have heard Star has semolina flour in its dough.  I don't want to get into having 2 different doughs.  I would forsee lots of wasted dough at the end of the week with where our sales are currently.  But I will most likely mess around with developing a decent dough with both flours over the summer when school is out.  When I open my own place on retirement it might be cool to offer both styles of pies.   Walter
Thanks Walter, I was wanting to ask if you had any thoughts on a different dough for the Star pizza. Look forward to your trials this summer...I have some ideas too.  8)

Bob
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Offline waltertore

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2013, 08:51:23 PM »
Thanks Walter, I was wanting to ask if you had any thoughts on a different dough for the Star pizza. Look forward to your trials this summer...I have some ideas too.  8)

Bob

Bob:  Let me know your ideas.  I am thinking a 50/50 blend to start and go from there.  I prefer to come up with something a tad off their product.  Copying a places pies is not really my thing.  Walter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Brushing crust and bottom with EVOO?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2013, 11:29:40 AM »
Bob:  Let me know your ideas.  I am thinking a 50/50 blend to start and go from there.  I prefer to come up with something a tad off their product.  Copying a places pies is not really my thing.  Walter
I was thinking of first trying bread flour in my Chicago thin dough and maybe up the hydration a little. Want to try it the opposite way too with an even drier thin crust dough. We'll see; I'll start a thread when I get going on it...soon!  :drool:

Bob
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