Author Topic: Perk's Dough  (Read 5205 times)

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Offline Perk

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Perk's Dough
« on: January 28, 2006, 09:21:24 PM »
I think I am going to finalize my dough somewhat since I was fully pleased with it today.
It's NY style  and very similar to the general NY style dough recipe.
It's more sugar based but don't let all that sugar fool you it's not too sweet but
it's good.

Ingredients
2 cups of warm water
1 package of Yeast.
1/4 Cup of Sugar
1 Tsp of Salt
2 Tbs of Crisco All-Vegetable Shortening, I do not like olive oil. Crisco was a hit today.
I mostly go on feel and not really measure the flour but it takes
5 1/4 to 5 1/2 cups of Bread Flour, Recommend King Arthur Bread Flour, I have not tried Sir Lancelot, so that may even be better.

I recommend mixing with a Mixer with the dough hook.
Or you can just kneed with your hands, a little messy but still good!

Mix 2 cups of Warm Water with packet of yeast, add sugar.
Let proof for about 5 minutes.
Add 3 cups of Flour, Salt, and Crisco. Mix
Add the rest of the flour little at a time while mixing I normally add 1/2 cup at a time for the
until I get to 5 cups then I add 1/4 of a cup at a time.
Look for a dough that is a little tacky but really doesn't stick to your fingers or hands.

Once Mixed and you feel it has the right consistency, take out of the mixing bowl and kneed by hand a couple of times. Slightly rub peanut oil on the top so that the dough will not dry out when rising. You can substitute vegetable oil for peanut oil if you want.

Then put back in the bowl and let rise, 2-3 hours maybe more depends on the temp of your house.

After the first rise, punch down, separate into 4 sections put into zip lock bags or air tight containers
then into refrigerator over night.

Next day,
preheat the oven, recommend Stone slab or tiles.

Take dough out of bag, form again into a circle disk but don't compress the dough hard, just do it lightly.
This dough will shape itself. Use a little bit of dusting bread flour so that it doesn't stick to your counter/table or your hands.

work the dough out with your fingers into a circle best as possible, maybe like the size inner part of a regular dinner plate, then
Pick up the dough on  the edge and let the dough stretch itself, keep going around the edge of the dough so that it stays in a circle and that the dough stretches it self.
You can stretch this dough super thin but you have to take your time and don't rush things.
some of the dough will even be a little transparent in sections, that how thin you can get it.
The edge ring will be a little thicker and you can bunch it up some, actually it will bunch up on you anyways giving a nice edge to the pie.

Let the dough rest on the table for 3-5 min.
Then put in on your lightly cornmeal dusted peel, put your sauce (not too much) and your cheese and  your toppings on. Be generous with everything since too much weight may cause the dough to stick to the peel. Remember is thin,
Next,
Take a knife or flat edge and make sure the pizza isn't sticking to the peel. Since this is super thin
you want the pizza to slide off the peel easy and the knife helps loosen the pie from the peel.

I recommend to
Cook Pizza on a stone, and watch it constantly while baking, watch to make sure no bubbles form in the middle of the pie, if so poke with a knife, no big bubbles allowed in the middle of the pie!!

Continue to watch the pizza, turn it if you have to so that it is evenly golden brown.
I'm normally on the kitchen floor looking through the window as the pizza cooks, it's very comical!



I also make a chicken pizza,
No sauce!!
Add mozzarella cheese
Cooking the chicken bites in a little olive oil, garlic and herb seasoning, And then I like mine spicy, so I add
McCormick Spicy Seasoning.  Fry the little chicken pieces so it's a little brown and crunchy on the outside.
add some little slices of white onion,
Onion brings out the chicken. But don't get to big of chunks and not to small that they are hidden.
you can add sauteed mushrooms in garlic butter
People love the chicken pizza.
I may make it next week so I will have pictures of it when I do.
For now I will just use the pic of the pepperoni pizza I used in another post,
but when I do chicken pizza I add those pics to here.




« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 01:10:35 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.


Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2006, 01:15:41 PM »
Ok, Just made some more dough
I used exactly 5 1/2 cups of flour.
Yes this is the first time I paid attention to how much flower I put in.  ;)
All for the greater good I guess.
Some people base in a crust recipe is the amount of Flour.
Mine is the Amount of Water. I always use 2 cups of water. That never changes.

1 Packet of yeast will never change either.
I use Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast in the packet.
I like their yeast it always does well for me and It never gives a fermented taste.
I only use 1 packet, I'm not a yeast taste lover.
 I don't want to taste a yeast taste, a fermented taste in crust to me is bad.
I want the yeast to hide in the bread or crust  and just do it's work.

Here is a a side view of the dough right out of the mixer.
With a slight rub of peanut oil on it. Very slight I may add
I am going to let it rise now in the mixing bowl until it doubles it size.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 01:27:54 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2006, 02:45:52 PM »
Dough has risen and has a good look to it. :D
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2006, 03:00:44 PM »
Separate into 4 sections put into zip lock bags and ready for refrigeration.
As you can tell each dough is not equal. I guess I could cut it and be more precise.
Weight it, etc..
If I sold pizza I would but since it's just for the home, I  just eye it.
I make 4 balls but you could make 3 if you want a thicker crust. But really this dough
is made to be thin with a thick outer rim crust. So it's off to the frig. I may make a pizza
late to night. since it's 3pm now I could make one around 6:30.

One thing about this dough, is you want to work with it cold.
Right from the fridge. No need to let it sit out to be room temp.



-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2006, 08:18:34 PM »
Ok made a pizza today for dinner,
I'm continuing the picture tutorial not for the advanced Home Pizza Maker but for the regular pizza fan that may just be starting making pizza.
Believe me, I been doing this for 10 years or more and I've been through a lot of trial and error.
I use stuff I can get at the regular grocery store, I haven't ordered flour, I never even knew about super Hi Gluten flour and really I'm not sure if I can make the crust any better to my liking with it. I can stretch the King Arthor Bread flour as thin as I want, so what is Super High Gluten going to do extra for me?

So right out of the fridge  is the dough ball, I like to work with the dough cold. It just better to handle. Many say to leave it out for an hour. Not me, not with this dough.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 08:55:27 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2006, 08:19:33 PM »
Next I press the dough ball with my fingers
and It normally is around 8 inches across after a basic finger press.
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2006, 08:22:36 PM »
Next I will pick up the dough, lightly dust the crust, using as little flour as possible because I do not want to dry out the dough. Too much flour will dry it out.

I grab the edge of the dough and kind of go around in a circle and the dough stretches it self.
I may put it on the dusted table and stretch it there too.

The dough is sticky and will stick to itself, so be careful take your time.

Once the dough is stretch it should be about 12 inches. This is good for my peel, any bigger and it would be
hard to work with on the peel.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 08:56:32 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2006, 08:25:16 PM »
The Peel,
This is important, I learned to put the right amount of corn meal on the peel.
Some may use flour, but It's only corn meal for me.
The trick is to put the corn meal on and rub it into the peel.
Stand by the trash can so the excess cornmeal with go into the trash.

I normally tilt it 45% and rub the access corn meal off.
This will create a good surface so that the pizza comes off the peel.
Remember when your finished making your pizza on the peel,
use a knife or a flat edge to go between the pizza and peel this will give a little air under the dough
so it slides off easier and it won't stick to the peel.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 08:46:26 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2006, 08:26:31 PM »
Next this is harder than it seems get the dough and put it on the peel.
Then stretch it back out a little because every time you pick up the dough it will relax.
If the dough touches itself it will stick to itself so be careful. :pizza:

« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 09:09:53 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2006, 08:28:43 PM »
Next add sauce, Not too much but just enough to give it that taste!
Use your favorite sauce or a Jar Sauce.
I haven't really got into the sauce part yet and actually I like the Jar Sauce.
Yea I'm a homer, but hey everything I use you can get at the grocery store.
No importing!  ;)
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.


Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2006, 08:30:10 PM »
Next I Just got through putting some toppings on nothing fancy but you can get fancy
That is up to you.  ;D

Here is the Pizza as it hits the stone.

-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2006, 08:32:25 PM »
In about 3 minutes things start to happen. I really didnt heat the oven for an hour, probably half as long.
The wife was hungry and it was getting late.

But I always keep an eye on the pizza I watch it all the way through,
I look for any dough bubbles in the inner part of the pie, if one starts to form I poke it with a knife,
This will limit the bubble from becoming big.
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2006, 08:42:27 PM »
After about 6 minutes I turn the pizza, because the side closest to the oven door will not brown as fast as the other sides. 8-10 minutes and it's done. To be honest I haven't really timed the pizza. I aways forget because I'm to focused on just how it looks.

Here is my normal pizza crust when it's done.

I am totally satisfied with the crust. It's crisp, soft, thin and really in Jacksonville Florida the King of No authentic Pizza It's the best so my friends say.

I made this tutorial detailed as best is I could, I really like pictures, I wish some one would have done this for me way back when.
When I read books, there is no step by step with picture tutorial. So now this is my walk through to the Pizza maker who is just starting and wanted to make a good NY style Pizza at home.

I hope you enjoyed my walk through, If you try my recipe and like it. That's great. Don't be afraid to modify it to your taste and if so. Let me know because I'm a little lazy with trying out new things.

My Next adventure is going to be fried pizza.
Let the fun begin!  :chef:


-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2006, 08:58:17 PM »
Perk,

That was an excellent piece of work. And thank you very much for taking the time to put everything together. I can see why everyone loves your pizzas.

I'm always experimenting with NY styles and plan to try your recipe sometime. I would leave out the sugar for my version and make a 16-incher. To help me in this regard, can you tell me how you measure out the flour? That is, do you just dip your measuring cup into the bag of flour and eyeball or shake it, or do you scoop flour from the bag into your measuring cup and level? I think that this sort of information is helpful to those who are just beginning (or even some of our experts) and want to get as close to your results as possible.

Thanks again.

Peter

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2006, 08:54:03 AM »
Peter,
Thanks for the props, I will say it's been a fun week, more than anyone may know.

It's funny about the flour, when I started making pizza, you couldn't buy bread flour at the store.
Flour was just flour.
I learned when I was real small first from my (Italian) grandmother and great grandmother.
Nothing was ever said about different flours, flour was just flour. It was the stuff you didn't want to spill
on the floor because it was hard to clean up.  :)

When I got to be a teenager, I had two choices self rising and all purpose.
I  use all purpose flour and I would sift it to make it lighter, Grandma's trick. LOL
Then came these bread machines, and with the craze came the bread flour at the local store.
If it wasn't at the local store it never exsisted, because I never knew.
I would then switch to bread flour and would buy those little packets that made a loaf in a machine. 
Now they sell bread flour in 5lbs bags.  Hi Gluten?? Believe it or not, I learned that here.
Naive in all my years. Never read any books, never even thought to find answers.
What would grandma say if she was here? Flour is flour? or little Davey, you got to go and seek the answers
and stop being a ragamuffin.

For Flour,
What I do is I dip the measuring cup in the flour and shake the access off the top.
So its level,  Then pour it in.  I did this because I hate cleaning dishes, so why dirty something else.
I did it because I was never worried about being accurate. My late and loving grandmother
 always used to tell me, Davey make your dough and in the end it should feel like a maidens breast.
I would ask her what's a maidens breast?  :-D Type of chicken?? LOL!
So I always did it on feel, never really measured it.

About the way I mix things like I do, well my dad taught me how to make chocolate chip cookies.
Damn good cookies too!  :chef:
He used Crisco instead of butter, the cookies always came out better, smoother. 
While he mixed, he would add the sugar to the Crisco first then the eggs and vanilla, then
half the flour, salt, and baking soda, then add the rest of the flour a little at a time.

So thats sort of what I do with the pizza crust.
Add the water, yeast, sugar
Half the flour and salt. Sorry no vanilla  ;D  and the the rest of the flour a little at a time.

A little tid bit on the amount of sugar.
I have no idea how it came about.
 I think I read a bread recipe way back and it may have called for like 6 tsp. of sugar.
Me not even thinking put 6 Table spoons  in my pizza dough by mistake, never realizing it was a mistake.
So for years I put 6 Tbs in the dough, then I got to think, man, dipping your spoon 6 times in the sugar bag
is too much work, I found if I did this and put it into a measuring cup it was close to a 1/4 cup so being lazy I just
dipped the 1/4 cup in and shake it so its level or a little less then the rim because I didn't want to spill the sugar and make a mess.
It just became a trademark of the crust.
when you look, you say man that's a lot of sugar for crust.
But it really doesn't taste like it's a lot.

Many of my methods come from, never knowing the correct way. Being lazy
I was making pizza before books were focused on pizza.
Just recently I bought books and by looking for these books on the net I found this cool site.
I have learned a lot! in what a week or two since I've been here??
Everyone has great recipes.  It's charlie and the chocolate factory! Pizza style!

I will say, something brought me here, Maybe Grandma, Maybe my Dad because I really believe what separates this dough is bread flour, since that's all I had at my disposal. Sugar because I couldn't read instructions, never found a bread that called for 6 Tbs. so what was I thinking??
and the friggin Crisco that I found right here and then BAM I thought of my dad and his cookies and said that's it!! I think someone uses Crisco in their Chicago style pizza dough?? The Crisco does something, I've noticed it. I used vegetable oil, then olive oil, peanut oil, corn oil, back to olive oil, canola oil, no oil. Everything except Crisco.
but it's that damn Crisco.

With that I knew I finally could put a final on the recipe.

Sorry for the long story, but its the truth, and to me it has a lot of memories, a lot of times of laughing.

Best pizza I ever made, I was tossing the dough, it hit the ceiling and stuck  then dropped on the floor.
Me and my buddies were drunk as skunks, I was just looking at it on the floor and one of my buddies said pick it up and throw some sauce and cheese on it because he was starving. Don't ask me why but that was the best pizza I ever made. It tasted good, or maybe it was the beer?!   :-D
It was my perfect pizza, man that was 15 years ago, Wow! but I remember it like yesterday.
hmm, maybe a little grit is the trick? I don't think so. LOL



-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2006, 12:12:03 PM »
Perk,

Thank you for the additional input.

I went into my kitchen this morning and weighed out a cup of King Arthur bread flour using your method, and extrapolated that amount (4.85 oz.) to 5 1/4 to 5 1/2 cups as your recipe calls for. I also weighed out two cups of water (16.30 oz.). With this information and other conversion data for the remaining ingredients in your recipe, I estimate that your recipe makes around 45-46 ounces of dough. If that amount is divided by 4, each dough ball would weigh around 11 to 11.5 ounces. I calculated that the thickness factor for that amount of dough and the 12-inch size pizzas that you make would be around 0.099-0.10, which falls within the range for a typical NY style--maybe a little bit less but close enough. I estimate the hydration of your dough, that is, the ratio of the weight of water to the weight of flour, to be around 61-64%, which is also typical for a NY style.

Where your recipe appears to depart from most NY style doughs is the amount of sugar and the amount of salt. If my calculations are correct or nearly so, I estimate that the sugar in your recipe logs in at 6.8-7.1%, and the salt at 0.73-0.77%, both by weight of flour.  A typical rate of sugar for a NY style is around 0-3%. Above 5%, you should be able to taste the sugar in the dough (which is why I prefer not to use sugar, or just a little). But more importantly, at those levels, the sugar can impair yeast performance, and particularly so if all the sugar is put into the water as the same time as the yeast. I can't say with certainty for your dough recipe, but high sugar levels in general cause fluids in the yeast cells to leach out by osmosis and reduce yeast performance and possibly produce an overly slack dough. That is because sugar is a hygroscopic material and absorbs liquids from its surroundings, and the fluids sucked out of the yeast have a softening effect on the gluten and can yield a slack dough. The easy way to avoid this outcome is to just use a pinch of sugar (or none at all) in your water along with the yeast during proofing, and then dissolve the rest of the sugar in the water after proofing. Alternatively, you might also be able to fully dissolve the sugar in the water before adding the yeast so that the sugar absorbs water rather than liquids from the yeast cells. But, to me, that is the lesser desirable of the two choices.

Your salt level is also lower, by about half, than for most NY style doughs. In your case, however, the lower levels of salt may somewhat counteract the abovementioned effects of high sugar levels on yeast performance. Salt is a regulator of the fermentation process and, as such, lower levels allow the fermentation process to be accelerated, whereas higher levels of salt have the opposite effect. I'm not suggesting that you use more salt, since that is often a personal preference, dietary or otherwise.

I can't tell you with certainty that your results will improve by making the above changes, but they are easy to implement with very little change to your present dough preparation techniques and might have a beneficial effect on your finished crust and pizzas.

When I try your recipe, I plan to keep everything as is, including the sugar. I will also use your dough preparation techniques so that I can compare the results with the different NY style doughs I have made. I originally thought to make a 16-inch pizza, but I now plan to make enough dough for just a single 12-inch pizza to allow for a more meaningful comparison.

Peter

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2006, 07:43:16 PM »
Thanks Peter,
Man you are the Pizza Scientist for sure.
I enjoyed how you broke down The Rachael Dough recipe
So I was egar to see you break down the recipe I use.
I will be curious to how your dough comes out.
And how you analyze the taste. Please be the Scientist on taste.
Even if you measure how far the pizza projected out of your mouth before it
hit the floor. LOL!

This dough is definitely a sweet dough. I almost want to compare
it to sweet dinner roll that you would put honey butter on. Maybe not that sweet,
heck maybe so,
People have commented that it's a sweet crust but a crust they enjoyed and liked because of
the sweetness.
I know I purposely make it sweet to be a different dough and not the same as the common
NY dough. However, there should be a balance of sweetness and not be over barring.

I think I went light on the salt when I used olive oil in the dough
because I was thinking it was too salty, but then It may have been because
of the olive oil.

Today I used my 3rd and 4th doughball, really trying to analyze the taste of the crust.
And the crust tasted a little sweeter then normal, maybe because I really focused on the
crust taste, the salt and sugar ratio may be similar
to that of a sweet dinner roll as I mentioned before.
I am going to have to look that up, because I am interested to know.

The first thing I may drop is 2 Tbs of sugar, instead  4 tbs.
I want people to say that it is a sweet dough but not be blown out of the water,
thinking Jesus Christ that is some sweet Sh@t. LOL

I'll probably do a taste test this superbowl weekend to see what people like best.









« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 08:18:32 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2006, 08:14:59 PM »
First I must correct my measuring skills.
4 Tbs = 1/4 of a cup. There is no way I ever used 6 Tbs that is a 1/3 of a cup.

I then went back got the dry measuring utensils and
measured more like 3 Tbs and how it looks when I scoop it out of the sugar bag with
the dry measure 1/4 cup.
Damn it, I have to change the recipe.
It's wrong to say 1/4 cup
it would be more like
3 Tbs. to at tops 3 1/2 tbs.
So now I got to try it with 3 Tbs.

Next I looked up sweet dinner rolls. And it looks like the ratio is and never was close to a sweet dinner roll
sugar, flour, salt ratio

 Sweet Dinner Roll Recipe
    * 1/2 cup warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C)
    * 1/2 cup warm milk
    * 1 egg
    * 1/3 cup butter, softened
    * 1/3 cup white sugar
    * 1 teaspoon salt
    * 3 3/4 cups all-purpose flour
    * 1 (.25 ounce) package active dry yeast
    * 1/4 cup butter, softened


« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 08:31:36 PM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2006, 07:38:37 AM »
Perk,

By my estimation, dropping the sugar to 3 tablespoons puts the sugar at around 4.7-4.97%. Still high but better than around 7%. Sometime you might try using considerably less sugar and see how your family/friends react. People will more often tell you their preferences if you give them a choice between A and B. If you only give them choice A and ask them how they like it, most people will say it's fine. After all, you are making the pizza and they are eating it. They usually won't risk offending you by telling you it isn't OK.

Peter

Offline Perk

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Re: Perk's Dough
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2006, 07:10:15 AM »
Thanks Peter,
Last night I made another batch of dough this time with 3 Tbs. of sugar.
It is in the fridge ready for tonight.

I have learned two things.
1 it is real hard to be real exact when it comes to
Flour, sugar, and oil or in my case now Crisco shortening.  I have never been exact
in all my pizza days.  ;D
Water and yeast are the only consistant things in my dough.
Salt is constant but I have tried playing with the ratio but with the high sugar content
1 tsp. seems to be the right blend.
Also since I was always under an exact 1/4 of a cup when I scoop the sugar. I probably will not see a big difference.
If I don't then I'm just going to change the recipe to 3 tbs. If I do and it's not as sweet as it normally is then I will make a 4 tbs and a 3 tbs recipe for the superbowl taste testing.

Anyways, I'm going to try 3 Tbs recipe out tonight. My wife is sick of pizza so It will be just me.
I also will do a fried pizza in a pan.  Haven't done that in a long time.






-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.


 

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