Author Topic: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias  (Read 7363 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2013, 08:04:55 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2013, 08:07:49 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2013, 08:09:57 PM »
Norma
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Offline petef

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2013, 11:04:29 PM »
Norma, I'll address issues about Joey's and Papa's in this post.

Joey's...

Your pics tell the story. The pies you show from Joey's don't look like the one I had there in June 2011. In fact, they look great. I may have to try Joey's again. I must have hit them on a bad day.

The other Joey's issue about cleanliness, I agree with you the place is very clean and I loved the atmosphere. My complaint was that he was folding pizza boxes and the bottom box was sitting on the floor. Even with a clean place, I never want to see a pizza box sitting on the floor.

Papas...

I ate at Papa's just one time about 1 year ago. I thought the pie was exceptionally good and it was not burnt on the bottom as your pics show. My only complaints about Papa's was the lack of secure parking and the drinks were too small. Two drinks would have been too much and one drink was not quite enough.

So I think the lesson learned is that we can't totally base our opinions on just one visit to any pizza shop because it seems none of them are consistent in their quality controls. It might even be helpful to mention the day and time of our visit because quality might depend upon who's baking the pie. In other words, a day shift might yield different pizza than an evening shift.

Anyway, next time in the Trenton Area, I hope you get to try Delorenzos', and Corleones. Corleone's has one unique feature... a free bag of Zeppoles with each order! 

---pete---

« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 11:13:42 PM by petef »

Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2013, 06:35:08 AM »
Norma, I'll address issues about Joey's and Papa's in this post.

Joey's...

Your pics tell the story. The pies you show from Joey's don't look like the one I had there in June 2011. In fact, they look great. I may have to try Joey's again. I must have hit them on a bad day.

The other Joey's issue about cleanliness, I agree with you the place is very clean and I loved the atmosphere. My complaint was that he was folding pizza boxes and the bottom box was sitting on the floor. Even with a clean place, I never want to see a pizza box sitting on the floor.

Papas...

I ate at Papa's just one time about 1 year ago. I thought the pie was exceptionally good and it was not burnt on the bottom as your pics show. My only complaints about Papa's was the lack of secure parking and the drinks were too small. Two drinks would have been too much and one drink was not quite enough.

So I think the lesson learned is that we can't totally base our opinions on just one visit to any pizza shop because it seems none of them are consistent in their quality controls. It might even be helpful to mention the day and time of our visit because quality might depend upon who's baking the pie. In other words, a day shift might yield different pizza than an evening shift.

Anyway, next time in the Trenton Area, I hope you get to try Delorenzos', and Corleones. Corleone's has one unique feature... a free bag of Zeppoles with each order! 

---pete---

Pete,

Maybe you did hit Joey's on a bad day and I might have also just had the only pizza at Papa's that was burnt on the day I was there.  Papa's was fairly busy when we were there and no one elses pizzas looked burnt on the bottom crust. 

I can understand your concern about a pizza box sitting on the floor, even if the pizzeria is clean. 

I only had water at Papa's so I really don't know how big their regular drinks are. 

I also agree that the lesson that is learned is we can't totally base our opinions on just one visit to any pizza shop.  When a group of us went to NY there was one place that we visited that was supposed to have really good pizzas, but most of us didn't think that pizza was really good.  We also could have visited too early, or just had bad pies on that day.   

If you are interested, look what BOARDWALKER posted after my Reply at 1711 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg254567.html#msg254567  Those pizzas at Mack's are considered “tomato pies” too.  I don't know how Mack's manages to be so inconsistent either.  I think Joey's is related to Mack's and Manco & Manco, but I sure don't know how all that happened, but it was supposed to have happened in Trenton, NJ.  I have to see if I can find more information about that.  I do know though even though I watch each of my pizzas when I made them and bake them, none of them are exactly the same.   Maybe in the future I will be calling my pizzas at market Trenton “tomato pies” instead of “boardwalk pizzas”.  :-D

Bill is supposed to call Forconi Foods in Hamilton this week.  He knows the owner and says that they are the distributor for Joey's.  Hopefully, Bill can find some things about Joey's pizza.

I also hope I get to try De Lorenzos and Corleones tomato pies in the future.  I would also love a free bag of Zeppoles.  I would have gone to those two pizzerias on Sunday, but Bill was showing me other things and really didn't want to drive all around the next day.   

Norma
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Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2013, 10:59:32 AM »
Norma,

I feel like I have already been to Trenton! Much more in-depth than what I learned watching "Pizza Cuz", but I would not have expected anything diferent from you!

Thanks again for the great write-ups!

John K
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2013, 11:32:23 AM »
Norma,

Do you know the size of the pizza you had at Rinaldi's and were you able to learn what size dough ball was used to make that pizza? And was any sugar used in the dough? And do you know the type of yeast used?

Peter
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 12:09:53 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline petef

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2013, 05:16:02 PM »
As not to hi-jack this thread, I'm starting a new one on the topic of pizza quality & consistency.

How to ensure the pizza you order is top quality?
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25321.new.html#new

---pete---

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2013, 06:14:08 PM »
Norma,
This is a really great, fun writeup you've done about your recent trip to Trenton and the pies you and Bill ate/saw. Nice writing and nice eye-spying!  8)
Please excuse a stupid question; but is Trenton the only place that puts cheese on a "tomato pie"? Thanks! :chef:

Bob
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Offline pizzaboyfan

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2013, 10:22:21 PM »
Great posts Norma.
All these years ( 25 or so ) when I needed pizza for friend's , poker, kids etc , and can't fire the oven, my go-to pie is a long term corner take out shop in Roxborough (above Manyunk) , Alex's.
They clearly make a Trenton style tomato pie, virtually identical.
They would use a pastic plant watering spout to pour on the sauce, not a cruet, but the same general technique.
I now have a much better appreciation for the lineage and history of the Trenton style Tomato pie.
Perhaps the forum can add a new Trenton Style to the varieties under discussion.

Perry


Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2013, 10:23:11 PM »
Norma,

I feel like I have already been to Trenton! Much more in-depth than what I learned watching "Pizza Cuz", but I would not have expected anything diferent from you!

Thanks again for the great write-ups!

John K

John,

Thanks, but I also have a lot to learn about Trenton tomato pies.  Someday I am going back to Trenton again and try more tomato pies.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2013, 10:29:50 PM »
Norma,

Do you know the size of the pizza you had at Rinaldi's and were you able to learn what size dough ball was used to make that pizza? And was any sugar used in the dough? And do you know the type of yeast used?

Peter

Peter,

I think the slice of pizza that I had at Risoldi's was from a 18” pizza.  I didn't think to ask what size dough ball that slice of pizza was from.  I asked about sugar and no sugar was used.  I didn't ask about the yeast, but I can call and see if I can talk to that same man if that helps at all.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2013, 10:31:13 PM »
As not to hi-jack this thread, I'm starting a new one on the topic of pizza quality & consistency.

How to ensure the pizza you order is top quality?
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25321.new.html#new

---pete---

Thanks Pete!  ;)  I think you might get a lot of replies about how different pizzerias aren't always consistent.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2013, 10:35:19 PM »
Norma,
This is a really great, fun writeup you've done about your recent trip to Trenton and the pies you and Bill ate/saw. Nice writing and nice eye-spying!  8)
Please excuse a stupid question; but is Trenton the only place that puts cheese on a "tomato pie"? Thanks! :chef:

Bob

Bob,

Thanks!  Your question isn't stupid.  Mack's in Wildwood and Manco & Manco are also tomato pies in my opinion.  I'm sure there are others as well.  Even the local Papa Dino's near me applies the sauce and cheese about the same.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2013, 10:46:07 PM »
Great posts Norma.
All these years ( 25 or so ) when I needed pizza for friend's , poker, kids etc , and can't fire the oven, my go-to pie is a long term corner take out shop in Roxborough (above Manyunk) , Alex's.
They clearly make a Trenton style tomato pie, virtually identical.
They would use a pastic plant watering spout to pour on the sauce, not a cruet, but the same general technique.
I now have a much better appreciation for the lineage and history of the Trenton style Tomato pie.
Perhaps the forum can add a new Trenton Style to the varieties under discussion.

Perry

Perry,

I think there must be more tomato pies than we know of.  I have never been to Alex's, but their pizzas do sound about the same.  I took photos at Papa Dino's at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20093.0.html  If you are interested those photos and video show how Papa Dino's in Lancaster makes their pizzas.  I would venture to say they are also tomato pies.

If you look farther in the same thread at PowerWagonPete post at Reply 16 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20093.msg197449.html#msg197449 you can see that he posted that Trenton tomato pie heritage is in Papa Dino's pizza too. 

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2013, 10:57:53 PM »
Bob,

Thanks!  Your question isn't stupid.  Mack's in Wildwood and Manco & Manco are also tomato pies in my opinion.  I'm sure there are others as well.  Even the local Papa Dino's near me applies the sauce and cheese about the same.

Norma
OK Norma thank you. I just thought a tomato pie was the ones I see here that just have tomato sauce on it...usually see some garlic slivers on it too. I wonder when the Trenton folks started the name "tomato pie" when it has cheese on it and what the cheese less ones are called(not a cheese less NP marinara pie) .
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2013, 11:43:34 PM »
OK Norma thank you. I just thought a tomato pie was the ones I see here that just have tomato sauce on it...usually see some garlic slivers on it too. I wonder when the Trenton folks started the name "tomato pie" when it has cheese on it and what the cheese less ones are called(not a cheese less NP marinara pie) .

Bob,

I am not sure about all the history related to tomato pies, but in Wikipedia it says there are two types of tomato pies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato_pie  I think I have had them both and can tell the differences in the two kinds of tomato pies. 

This is also an article about Trenton and its Tomato Pies. http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-20/food/fo-1109_1_tomato-pie

Bob1 brought Steve and me a Tomato Pie from near Philly and Steve and I went to a Tomato Pie shop near Philly too.  Those tomato pies are different than Trenton's or even the Papa Dino's pizzas.  I can give links to photos of the other kind of Tomato Pies where I posted about them.

Norma
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Offline petef

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2013, 03:54:58 AM »
Thanks Pete!  ;)  I think you might get a lot of replies about how different pizzerias aren't always consistent.

Norma, at Papa's you received a sub-standard/over baked pie. Before you ordered, did you say anything about your great interest in pizza making, or did you say all that stuff after you received your order. I ask because I'm trying to determine whether the pizza chef gave you any special treatment or was the pie you received just their standard service but they messed up a bit.

Also, what was PAPA's reaction to all the pics you took?

---pete---



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2013, 07:19:13 AM »
Norma,

I think it would help to get the pizza size and corresponding dough ball weight. The reason is that the numbers you provided so far fall shy of an 80-lb dough batch if one assumes that a full 50-lb bag of flour and 15 quarts of water are used. Maybe the thickness factor approach will come closer. If you decide to call, you might also ask what brand of Kosher salt is used.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trenton, NJ tomorrow to visit Trenton Bill and some pizzerias
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2013, 07:41:45 AM »
Norma, at Papa's you received a sub-standard/over baked pie. Before you ordered, did you say anything about your great interest in pizza making, or did you say all that stuff after you received your order. I ask because I'm trying to determine whether the pizza chef gave you any special treatment or was the pie you received just their standard service but they messed up a bit.

Also, what was PAPA's reaction to all the pics you took?

---pete---

Pete,

I agree that Bill and I received a sub-standard/overbaked pie at Papa's and don't think that is the norm at Papa's.  What I said was I had watched the Pizza Cuz show on TV and had wanted to try Papa's famous tomato pies. I commented on the little folder that had all the information about Papa's and said I really enjoyed reading the history and reviews of Papa's. I said I have tried many pizzas at different pizza business.  I also said I traveled from Lancaster county in Pa. to try their tomato pies.  I never tell any pizzeria that I also own a small pizza business.  If anything, I just tell whom I am talking to that I like to try to make pizzas at home, but at Papa's I just said I wanted to record what I ate at Papa's and show the photos to my friends at home to show them what a tomato pie was.  I really don't think Bill's and my pizza was given any special treatment, but the people that work at Papa's were really nice.  Bill and I had thought about sending the pizza back, but decided against it.  I asked to go into Papa's kitchen to watch how the pizzas are made.  I asked to look at the dough and the man making the pizzas showed me the dough and how he makes the pizzas. 

This might be subjective, but the list of best pizzerias in NJ in 2010 contains Grimaldi's coal-burning oven where they dress their pies Trenton style. http://njmonthly.com/articles/restaurants/25-perfect-pizzas.html  The one other thing I found interesting about what Bill told me about Trenton pizzas was there was a fair amount of coal-burning pizza ovens in Trenton at one point in time.

There are different articles on Slice about Trenton's tomato pies.  How many tomato pie pizzerias have you tried in Trenton?  I am always searching for my perfect NY style pizzas and I was probably fortunate that I found it at Joey's.  For me, that was my perfect NY style pizza, at least to this date.  I know everyone’s tastes are different, so what might be my perfect NY style pizza, might not be someone elses perfect pizza.  Maybe the stars were just aligned right that day that the pizza at Joey's tasted that good to me.  ;D I never will know unless I try another tomato pie at Joey's.  Bill also has tried many Trenton pizzas from all of the years he has lived in Trenton and he also said that was his favorite pizza.     

To add to all I have just posted, who would think that some little old lady would want to copy anyones pizza.   :-D

Norma
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