Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 57604 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #180 on: August 15, 2013, 06:19:50 PM »
Peter, Sammy, the grandson of Chick is the one who runs the Robbinsville location of Delorenzo's Tomato Pies.  The father, Gary (son in law of Chick) shut up shop in Trenton because it was getting too dangerous.  Last I heard, he was going to open up shop somewhere in PA.  Sammy was making pies for a good 10 to 15 years at Hudson street and I can verify that nothing has changed in terms of preparation and the way they make the pie.  I've been to both at least 20 times.

The Delorenzo's Pizza on Hamilton ave recently shut up shop in Trenton due to crime issues.  They have moved to Hamilton, the neighboring municipality (they even brought their old sign) and I haven't been able to get in as they have been packed.  I actually live about 8 minutes away from this one right now.

The Delorenzo's Pizza location within Risoldi's has been shut down, I'm guessing because they moved their whole operation next door in the adjacent strip mall.  Also, it didn't seem many people came to the supermarket to get pizza.  Many didn't even know about it.

More recently, Papa's Tomato Pies, the oldest continually running pizzeria in the US is opening up a new location any day now in Robbinsville (a block away from Delorenzo's Tomato Pies).  The father is the one running the new shop while the son is going to take over at the Trenton shop.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the Trenton shop shut down soon though due to the crime in Trenton.

However, soon, there will be a good opportunity for those that are into trying this style of pizza to go to all three in safe neighborhoods which is nice.  We stopped going to Hudson St. 4 years ago after someone was shot in the alley way.  We've always avoided the Hamilton Ave Delorenzo's Pizza because of the danger in going to that neighborhood.  Papa's was literally in a warzone so we never bothered there either.  Kinda sad as we've watch a bunch of businesses that were extremely old and staples of a city for over 60 years to flee or shut up shop altogether.     

BenLee,

That was very interesting what you posted.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #181 on: August 15, 2013, 06:32:43 PM »
BenLee,

Thank you for the update on the De Lorenzo businesses. Earlier today I read several articles about the crime problems in Trenton. I also read that Papa's was also opening up a new location in Robbinsville.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 06:47:53 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #182 on: August 15, 2013, 06:56:29 PM »
Norma,

I wouldn't worry too much about the brand of mozzarella cheese. It is true that the various De Lorenzo businesses used the Maggio mozzarella cheese at different times but according to Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5223.msg44262.html#msg44262 , Grande cheese was also used. What appears to be more important is that the cheese be used on pizzas rather sparingly. I will have more to say on this point when I post a De Lorenzo clone dough formulation for you to consider.

There are still a few things I still don't know about the De Lorenzo's basic pizzas. For example, I don't know a typical dough ball weight and I don't know the two pizza sizes. The Robbinsville menu simply states that the pizzas are "small" and "large". At one time a member reported that the same dough ball weight was used for both sizes, and that created noticeable differences in the two end products (obviously the two crusts would have different thicknesses in such a case). My guess is that the two pizza sizes are 12" and 14". Interestingly, I dot recall that any member ever actually measured the two De Lorenzo pizza sizes and posted those numbers.

Peter

Offline BenLee

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #183 on: August 15, 2013, 09:07:52 PM »
BenLee,

Thank you for the update on the three De Lorenzo businesses. Earlier today I read several articles about the crime problems in Trenton. I also read that Papa's was also opening up a new location in Robbinsville.

Peter

Yes, Trenton has been bad for 30 years, but these past 2, it's taken a huge turn for the worst.  They are about to hit their all time murder high and its only August.  I've only been to Trenton once this year and remember it vividly.  I had just left the court house and we were in my car and I kinda looked around and said to myself just driving through, you can literally see trouble developing at every corner.  I decided to take a quick exit onto the highway to get out.  It was a pretty good decision as I missed a murder on that exact street by about 5 minutes.  It was some A&E reality star's son that was killed. 

My other experience was a few years back, Delorenzo's on Hudson street did lunch reservations on Friday only.  My wife and my college roommate went.  In the alleyway there, someone was shot while we were inside eating.  That was a wrap for me. 

My father in law spoke to the owner of Barbero's bakery (a legendary bakery) and they shut up shop last year because their drivers would get robbed right outside the bakery consistently.


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #184 on: August 15, 2013, 09:09:03 PM »
Peter,

Yes, I would like a De Lorenzo clone dough formulation to try.   ;D  I am sorry what I posted was confusing.   I was at the Weis supermarket after I was at market today and I found some Sargento LMPS mozzarella in a bag.  Weis supermarket had Maggio cheese products, but no mozzarellas.  I have to look at Giant to see what they have.  I don't know if the Sargento LMPS mozzarella will cut it or not for the cheese, but if it doesn't I can use it on a PJ cheesestick attempt. 

Norma

I believe Acme has the maggio cheese products, at least they did last time I was there last year.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #185 on: August 15, 2013, 10:46:11 PM »
I believe Acme has the maggio cheese products, at least they did last time I was there last year.

BenLee,

Thanks for telling me that Acme supermarkets carries Maggio cheese products.  We used to have Acme supermarkets in our area, but they are gone now. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #186 on: August 15, 2013, 11:48:40 PM »
I did call De Lorenzo's to see what size pizzas they sell, but they did not answer their phone, but I left a message to call me back as to what sizes of pizzas they sell.

pbergen posts in this thread http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/375043-anyone-ever-try-delorenzos-tomato-pies.html that the main beef he had with the pies, (especially the Hudson St. location, was that the crust was sometimes overly crispy without having any chewiness).  I sure don't know what that means.

This is another article and slideshow of photos about De Lorenzo's Tomato Pies on Hudson St. closing.  http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011/12/famed_delorenzos_hudson_street.html  I don't know if this was posted before or not.  The photo of the pizza on the wooden peel looks pretty big to me.

There is a video in this article that shows a dough balls which look rough when put in and smooth when they start to open them), the temperature of the oven (the oven looks like it was a Bari) and more.  It also can be viewed full screen.  http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/07/i_miss_the_people_not_the_grind_owners_of_now-closed_de_lorenzos_tomato_pies_in_trenton_talk_about_r.html 

The same video can be viewed on YouTube too.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrz-mLRYYdk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrz-mLRYYdk</a>



This video is of Gary Amico making the last tomato pie ever at De Lorenzo's on Hudson St. in Trenton, NJ.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6csqXXq1c" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6csqXXq1c</a>
 

Another video.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9W1B75iOAg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9W1B75iOAg</a>
 

Another video.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS-ZT2GvOE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS-ZT2GvOE</a>
 

There are more videos on YouTube of De Lorenzo's on Hudson St.

I guess at one time De Lorenzo's pizzas might have been made in a coal oven by Lippy's post on this forum.  http://mouthfulsfood.com/forums/index.php/topic/25078-delorenzos-tomato-pies-the-end/ 

A few more photos.

http://planetprinceton.com/2012/01/17/photo-journal-time-for-one-last-tomato-pie/ 

In this forum PIGMON posts on this thread the link here on the forum about the reverse engineering thread of De Lorenzo's. 

http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=14491 

Norma
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 11:52:01 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #187 on: August 16, 2013, 08:31:06 AM »
These are the the facebook photos at De Lorenzo's Pizza at https://www.facebook.com/delorenzos/photos_stream  The other De Lorenzo's Tomato Pie facebook photos are at  https://www.facebook.com/DeLorenzosTomatoPies/photos_stream 

If the STAR-LEDGER newspaper article is looked at it says the different De Lorenzo's locations pizzas really were not the same.

A few photos copied from the De Lorenzo's Tomato Pie facebook page, including what the pizza dough looks like, and photos of what De Lorenzo's coal oven looked like before the fire.

I don't know how the De Lorenzo's pizza dough can be cloned/or tried to be cloned, if people might think the pizzas tasted differently at the different De Lorenzo's locations.  I read the same thing on Slice and elsewhere on the web. 

Norma
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 08:32:45 AM by norma427 »
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #188 on: August 16, 2013, 08:34:51 AM »
Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #189 on: August 16, 2013, 09:56:35 AM »
This is a good loking tomato pie and I'll bet that crust on the rim is excellent to bite into....I know you could duplicat this Norma.  :chef:
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #190 on: August 16, 2013, 10:03:55 AM »
Norma,

One of the interesting things I observed from the videos and from the photos from the Robbinsville location is that it appears that but for the fancier digs at Robbinsville the Amicos went to great pains to recreate the Hudson Street setting as much as possible at the Robbinsville location, down to using the same large silver buckets for the sauce, the same Pyrex measuring cups and oil squeeze bottles, the same (or very similar) spoons and ladles and knives, the same thin-bladed wood peels, pizza serving trays, etc. Since the Robbinsville location uses Blodgett ovens, this leads me to believe that the selection of those ovens was intentional and that the ovens at Hudson Street were also Blodgett ovens. You mentioned Bari as an oven possibility but the ones shown in the videos and in earlier photos look to me to be Blodgett ovens, much like the old 1060 and 1000 Blodgett ovens such as shown at http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-blodgett-1060-pizza-ovens-/271258962409?pt=BI_Commercial_Ovens_Ranges&hash=item3f284b49e9#ht_26wt_1320 and at http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blodgett-1000-Stone-Single-Stack-Pizza-Oven-Natural-Gas-Stainless-Steel-/221262969739?pt=BI_Commercial_Ovens_Ranges&hash=item33844cfb8b#ht_121wt_1320. Walter (waltertore) has the 1000 Blodgetts so he might be able to confirm the brand if he sees this post.

With respect to the Bari item you noted, it looks to be a thermometer and not necessarily an indication that a Bari oven was used. I tried to read the thermometer setting in the video you posted, but I couldn't quite make out the value. If the gradations are in one-hundred degree increments, that would suggest a 550 degree F oven temperature. That is the temperature that was mentioned by one of our members over at the Trenton thread. If that temperature is correct, that would settle that matter.

The first Facebook link you posted is for Rick De Lorenzo's pizzeria. At the time of the move of that pizzeria to its new location, it was mentioned that the old ovens would make the move also, and the Facebook photos confirm that. BTW, when I worked on the reverse engineering and cloning project, I paid attention to as much information as I could about all of the De Lorenzo locations, but I concentrated more on the Hudson Street location because I had read that the original Hamilton location and the Hudson location did not produce identical pies.

An additional tidbit that I picked up from the videos is the use of the use of the end of the table or workbench and gravity to help open up dough balls to form skins. You can see it at 2:05 in the third video you cited and in the photo at the Robbinsville location at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3174_JPG.htm. Of course, that is not the only way to form a skin but it looks like just another example of something that moved from Hudson to Robbinsville. It is also clear from the Robbinsville website at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/ that the Amicos are trying to tie the old and new locations together.

I am trying not to make this an extension of the Trenton thread yet at the same time I am aware that the De Lorenzo pizzerias past and present made their name and mark with "tomato pies", which is the subject of this thread. So, depending on your results with a clone, it might make sense to cross link this thread with the Trenton thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.0.html.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 09:04:17 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #191 on: August 16, 2013, 10:53:26 AM »
Norma,

One of the interesting things I observed from the videos and from the photos from the Robbinsville location is that it appears that but for the fancier digs at Robbinsville the Amicos went to great pains to recreate the Hudson Street setting as much as possible at the Robbinsville location, down to using the same large silver buckets for the sauce, the same Pyrex measuring cups, the same (or very similar) spoons and ladles and knives, pizza serving trays, etc. Since the Robbinsville location uses Blodgett ovens, this leads me to believe that the selection of those ovens was intentional and that the ovens at Hudson Street were also Blodgett ovens. You mentioned Bari as an oven possibility but the ones shown in the videos and in earlier photos look to me to be Blodgett ovens, much like the old 1060 and 1000 Blodgett ovens such as shown at http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-blodgett-1060-pizza-ovens-/271258962409?pt=BI_Commercial_Ovens_Ranges&hash=item3f284b49e9#ht_26wt_1320 and at http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blodgett-1000-Stone-Single-Stack-Pizza-Oven-Natural-Gas-Stainless-Steel-/221262969739?pt=BI_Commercial_Ovens_Ranges&hash=item33844cfb8b#ht_121wt_1320. Walter (waltertore) has the 1000 Blodgetts so he might be able to confirm the brand if he sees this post.

With respect to the Bari item you noted, it looks to be a thermometer and not necessarily an indication that a Bari oven was used. I tried to read the thermometer setting in the video you posted, but I couldn't quite make out the value. If the gradations are in one-hundred degree increments, that would suggest a 550 degree F oven temperature. That is the temperature that was mentioned by one of our members over at the Trenton thread. If that temperature is correct, that would settle that matter.

The first Facebook link you posted is for Rick De Lorenzo's pizzeria. At the time of the move of that pizzeria to its new location, it was mentioned that the old ovens would make the move also, and the Facebook photos confirm that. BTW, when I worked on the reverse engineering and cloning project, I paid attention to as much information as I could about all of the De Lorenzo locations, but I concentrated more on the Hudson Street location because I had read that the original Hamilton location and the Hudson location did not produce identical pies.

An additional tidbit that I picked up from the videos is the use of the use of the end of the table or workbench and gravity to help open up dough balls to form skins. You can see it at 2:05 in the third video you cited and in the photo at the Robbinsville location at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3174_JPG.htm. Of course, that is not the only way to form a skin but it looks like just another example of something that moved from Hudson to Robbinsville. It is also clear from the Robbinsville website at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/ that the Amicos are trying to tie the old and new locations together.

I am trying not to make this an extension of the Trenton thread yet at the same time I am aware that the De Lorenzo pizzerias past and present made their name and mark with "tomato pies", which is the subject of this thread. So, depending on your results with a clone, it might make sense to cross link this thread with the Trenton thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.0.html.

Peter



Peter,

I didn't observe from the videos and photo that is appears they use about the same basic things to make their pizzas.  You are more observant than I am. 

I only saw that Bari on the oven thermometer and couldn't make out if that was a Bari oven or not.  It would make sense if the oven temperature was at about 550 degrees F, but how does that translate to the longer bakes in some peoples opinions?  Do you think from all of those pizzas going in and out of the oven that is why it might take longer for them to bake?  I think I recall at Pizza Brain that they might also use a Blodgett oven and if think about it, those bakes were longer too. 

I wasn't observant enough either to pick up the additional tidbit you picked up about how they use the end of the table or workbench and gravity to help open up dough balls to form skins.  I can understand that the Amicos are trying to tie the old and new locations together. 

If you find a formulation for me to try and all depending on how it turns out I can understand about cross linking this thread with the Trenton thread.  I will that up to you to decide what to do.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #192 on: August 16, 2013, 11:58:25 AM »
I only saw that Bari on the oven thermometer and couldn't make out if that was a Bari oven or not.  It would make sense if the oven temperature was at about 550 degrees F, but how does that translate to the longer bakes in some peoples opinions?  Do you think from all of those pizzas going in and out of the oven that is why it might take longer for them to bake?  I think I recall at Pizza Brain that they might also use a Blodgett oven and if think about it, those bakes were longer too. 

Norma,

I can't honestly say that the bake temperature is actually around 550 degrees F. Also, depending on how many pizzas are in the oven at one time, the actual time it takes to bake a single pizza can possibly vary quite a bit, so that may account for the uncertainty on bake times. In the Trenton thread, I once speculated that De Lorenzo's at Hudson Street used two ovens to bake their pizzas as a way of controlling the production of the pizzas over both slack and peak times, moving pizzas from the top oven after an initial bake to the lower oven (or vice versa) to finish baking. Also, the pizza makers at De Lorenzo/Hudson often added more cheese, and sometimes more pizza sauce and even more olive/canola oil blend, at the time that the pizzas were moved to the lower oven. I think that this is a technique shown in the photos at the Robbinsville location. For example, look at the two photos at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3206_JPG.htm and http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3207_JPG.htm. Those photos are next to each other (that is, numbered consecutively) in the photo sequencing, and I believe that the pizzas shown in the two photos may be the same pizza. If I am correct on this point, note that the pizza goes from the top oven to the bottom oven after a partial first bake and that as the pizza goes into the bottom oven it has some additional shredded mozzarella cheese applied to it. Since the bottom oven has a new pizza baking in it, that can mean that a pizza can be started in the lower oven and later be moved to the upper oven. I had read about this two step process over at the Trenton thread but had not seen anything beyond member comments as evidence of that process.

What do you think?

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #193 on: August 16, 2013, 12:45:17 PM »

What do you think?

Peter


Peter,

I will tell you more what I think after I get back from market today and have read over your post and links more, but another thing I wondered is how the original De Lorenzo's pizzas might have been when baked in their coal oven.  Do you think the drier environment of a coal oven somehow is why they might need to bake their pizzas on two different decks if they were trying to recreate the same kind of pizza they made in their coal oven?  I sure don't know if that makes any sense or not.  :-\

Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #194 on: August 16, 2013, 03:52:10 PM »
Norma,

In preparation for coming up with a De Lorenzo clone dough formulation for you to use, can you tell me what cold fermentation period you plan to use, and also whether you have any flours with a protein content of around 12.9% or might be blended to achieve that value?  It doesn't matter if the flours are bleached or bromated. And are there any other requirements that have to be met?

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #195 on: August 16, 2013, 03:59:11 PM »

 Do you think the drier environment of a coal oven somehow is why they might need to bake their pizzas on two different decks if they were trying to recreate the same kind of pizza they made in their coal oven?  I sure don't know if that makes any sense or not.  :-\

Norma
I don't know a whole lot about these types of things but it sure makes a lot of sense to me Norma.  The bottom of the pizza gets hits twice with a nice hot, dry surface. You're pretty clever ma'am.  :chef:
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #196 on: August 16, 2013, 04:58:07 PM »
Norma,

In preparation for coming up with a De Lorenzo clone dough formulation for you to use, can you tell me what cold fermentation period you plan to use, and also whether you have any flours with a protein content of around 12.9% or might be blended to achieve that value?  It doesn't matter if the flours are bleached or bromated. And are there any other requirements that have to be met?

Peter

Peter,

I really don't know how long De Lorenzo's cold ferments their dough, but I will go with whatever you want me to for a cold fermentation period.  I have the Occident flour that is lower in protein at home and King Arthur flours, but I can purchase another flour at the supermarket if you think there is a better one to try or blend.

I can't really think of any other requirements that must be met right now.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #197 on: August 16, 2013, 05:04:17 PM »
I don't know a whole lot about these types of things but it sure makes a lot of sense to me Norma.  The bottom of the pizza gets hits twice with a nice hot, dry surface. You're pretty clever ma'am.  :chef:

Bob,

I sure don't know if that is right or not, but when visiting Totonno's pizza in Coney Island their pizzas were baked in a coal-fired oven.  I am just trying to figure out how De Lorzenzo's made about the same pizza in their deck ovens when they couldn't use their coal-fired oven anymore. 

Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #198 on: August 16, 2013, 05:16:35 PM »
Norma,

I can't honestly say that the bake temperature is actually around 550 degrees F. Also, depending on how many pizzas are in the oven at one time, the actual time it takes to bake a single pizza can possibly vary quite a bit, so that may account for the uncertainty on bake times. In the Trenton thread, I once speculated that De Lorenzo's at Hudson Street used two ovens to bake their pizzas as a way of controlling the production of the pizzas over both slack and peak times, moving pizzas from the top oven after an initial bake to the lower oven (or vice versa) to finish baking. Also, the pizza makers at De Lorenzo/Hudson often added more cheese, and sometimes more pizza sauce and even more olive/canola oil blend, at the time that the pizzas were moved to the lower oven. I think that this is a technique shown in the photos at the Robbinsville location. For example, look at the two photos at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3206_JPG.htm and http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3207_JPG.htm. Those photos are next to each other (that is, numbered consecutively) in the photo sequencing, and I believe that the pizzas shown in the two photos may be the same pizza. If I am correct on this point, note that the pizza goes from the top oven to the bottom oven after a partial first bake and that as the pizza goes into the bottom oven it has some additional shredded mozzarella cheese applied to it. Since the bottom oven has a new pizza baking in it, that can mean that a pizza can be started in the lower oven and later be moved to the upper oven. I had read about this two step process over at the Trenton thread but had not seen anything beyond member comments as evidence of that process.

What do you think?

Peter


Peter,

To answer you more on your post at Reply 192 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg273369.html#msg273369 I think your speculating that the De Lorenzo's at Hudson St. might be right about using two ovens to bake their pizzas as a way of controlling the production of the pizzas over both slack and peak times.  I didn't catch that before that the pizza makers at De Lorenzo/Hudson often added more cheese, and sometimes more pizza sauce and even more olive/canola oil blend at the time that the pizzas were moved to the lower oven.  I also think you may be right about them using the same technique shown in the photos at the Robbinsville location.  Thanks for those two consecutive photos.  They do look like the same pizza to me.  Good thinking!

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #199 on: August 16, 2013, 06:01:48 PM »
I really don't know how long De Lorenzo's cold ferments their dough, but I will go with whatever you want me to for a cold fermentation period.  I have the Occident flour that is lower in protein at home and King Arthur flours, but I can purchase another flour at the supermarket if you think there is a better one to try or blend.

Norma,

As best I can tell from the comments at the Trenton thread, the dough is cold fermented for at least one day and possibly more. I am assuming that you plan to make the pizza at market where you can use your deck oven, possibly in the two-step process that I earlier described. If that is correct, I would plan to come up with a formulation with an amount of yeast (IDY) for a one-day cold fermentation.

The issue of the type of flour used at De Lorenzo's has been discussed on several occasions at the Trenton thread. The flour that has been mentioned most is all-purpose flour, including the Pillsbury brand. At least one member said that the flour was not a high-gluten flour, but rather "regular flour". The most recent candidate, from Reply 176 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg167142.html#msg167142, is the "PILLSBURY BEST BAKERS PATENT HIGH GLUTEN FLOUR". That flour is a foodservice product but is not identified by General Mills, who sells that flour at the foodservice level, as a high-gluten flour even though the flour, at 12.9% protein, can be called a "high-gluten" flour since there is no industry standard as to what constitutes a high-gluten flour. Any "regular' or "all-purpose" Pillsbury flour would be sold at retail in small bags, not foodserevice size bags (e.g., 50-lb bags), through the J.M Smucker Company. None of the De Lorenzo pizzerias would be using small bags of retail all-purpose Pillsbury flour.

The General Mills foodservice Pillsbury flour--the only Pillsbury flour that I could find at the GM website--has the specs as shown at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/pillsburys-best-flour-bleached-bromated-enriched-malted-50-lb/133294000?mct=Flour&ct=spring-patent&typ=Type. For your purposes, unless I can find another Pillsbury flour that looks to be more appropriate, I plan to use the foodservice Pillsbury flour for the clone De Lorenzo dough formulation but suggest an alternative using a blend of other flours, possibly including the Occident flour. By any chance, do you have any high-gluten flour on hand?

For your information, I plan to modify the De Lorenzo clone dough formulation at Reply 117 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg45060.html#msg45060 for your use. You might recall that you used a version of that dough formulation at the Boardwalk thread. Hopefully, we will know what size pizzas Robbinsville makes before I come up with the new De Lorenzo clone dough formulation.

Peter