Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 109648 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #225 on: August 18, 2013, 10:02:36 PM »
Norma,

I went back to the Robbinsville photos at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/index.htm to study them more closely in search of more clues. I think I have at least developed an understanding of the workstation configuration and the related workflow.

In general, it looks like there are three workstations, two at the ends and a central work area. The central work area is different than the workstations on each side in that it is a slab of marble or granite or other similar material. Above the stone slab are two printers that apparently print out the tickets. These are ultimately distributed to the workers at the workstations on each side. Below the stone slab is where the trays of dough balls are held. So the dough balls are centrally located and accessible by the workers at the two end workstations.

Each of the two workstations have pretty much the same equipment and tools. These include the following: (a) two stacked Blodgett ovens; (b) a large silver bucket with pizza sauce and a ladle; (c) a glass Pyrex measuring cup with a spoon; (d) a bench knife and metal putty knife or spatula; (e) squeeze bottles containing oil or oil blend; (f) large and small bowls for holding bench flour and/or cornmeal; (g) a metal container with sausage; (h) various containers for the shredded cheese and toppings; (i) a large, single wooden make peel of light color and large enough to make both sizes (14" and 16") of pizzas; (j) aluminum serving trays at the distal ends of the two workstations and large enough to serve both size pizzas; and (k) knives (not pizza wheels) at the distal ends of the two workstations. In addition to the foregoing, there is at least one thin-bladed wooden peel at each workstation that is used to remove pizzas from the ovens or to move the pizzas around within the ovens and also between ovens. Those peels are smaller than the make peels and are of a darker color. When not in use, those peels are stored above the ovens.

As I see it, in normal, non-peak times, pizzas can be made at one or both of the two workstations, and the finished pizzas are put on the aluminum serving trays at the ends of the two workstations. There, the pizzas are sliced using the collocated knives. The slicing is done by the servers. They are the guys shown in the photos with the neckties.

At busy times, such as shown by the large crowd of diners in the photos, prep work can be done by a worker situated at the central area. That worker can make skins of the proper sizes on the stone slab (the edge of which can allow skins to be formed by using gravity as previously mentioned). Presumably the skins formed by that worker are passed on to the workers at the end workstations along with the corresponding tickets. The workers at the two workstation dress and bake the pizzas and deliver them to the ends of the two workstations to be cut by the servers.

What is still not clear from the photos, such as the one at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3161_JPG.htm, is if there are two dough ball sizes. It looks like that might be the case, but I can't say for sure.

Peter

Peter,

You are sure doing a full-scale investigation of those Robbinsville photos.  ;D Thanks for posting all that you saw and noted in those photos.  It is interesting what you noted from those photos. 

I see what you mean from you last link about the dough ball sizes.  I can't make out if they are different sizes or not.

I am friends on facebook with Anthony Scillia.  He is one of the members of Men Who Dine.  Do you want me to ask him if he remembers anything special about De Lorenzo's crust when he visited De Lorenzo's on Hudson St?  http://blog.scottspizzatours.com/post/16011466338/tomato-pie-lives-post-delos  I am also friends with Scott Wiener on facebook if you have any questions for him about that visit to De Lorenzo's on Hudson. http://madblatter.tumblr.com/post/45759200545/trenton-tomato-pie-lives-on-after-delorenzos-closes#notes  Scott Wiener has been know to pull out rulers at times to measure pizzas.  I also know Paulie Gee visited De Lorenzo's on Hudson St.  I am also friends with him on facebook.  Maybe Paulie remembers something special about the crust in how it tasted.

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #226 on: August 18, 2013, 10:07:45 PM »
Norma,

I had no way of knowing whether Rick was telling the truth about his cousins. That is why I preferred to get the information on pizza sizes from the folks at Robbinsville. It did not help that they were not forthcoming, given that pizza sizes are not trade secrets and pizzas can be easily measured. It took someone like the writer of the article I referenced to get the answer. I assume that their article is correct. But, even then, if I ever found myself at the Robinsville De Lorenzo Pies location, I would measure their pizzas.

Peter

Peter,

I have no way of knowing whether Rick was telling the truth about his cousins either, but at least he did answer me in sizes of the pizzas.  I will wait and see if De Lorenzo's at Robbinsville answers me again.  When I get to the Robbinsville location I will take a ruler along, even though people might look at me strangely.   :-D  That isn't the weirdest thing I have done so far. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #227 on: August 18, 2013, 11:10:04 PM »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #228 on: August 19, 2013, 08:38:33 AM »
Did you read this article?  http://www.foodgps.com/de-lorenzos-tomato-pies-trenton-vs-robbinsville/ 
Norma,

Yes, I did see that article. It was interesting in that it compared the old and new De Lorenzo locations (Hudson and Robbinsville) while they were both in operation and using the same dough, cheese and sauce. As I noted previously, I believe that the new location was trying to replicate as much as possible of the old location but for the new ovens and more modern, expanded setting. It was also interesting to note the comment about the NJ tomatoes being inconsistent.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #229 on: August 19, 2013, 10:14:26 AM »
Norma,

Yes, I did see that article. It was interesting in that it compared the old and new De Lorenzo locations (Hudson and Robbinsville) while they were both in operation and using the same dough, cheese and sauce. As I noted previously, I believe that the new location was trying to replicate as much as possible of the old location but for the new ovens and more modern, expanded setting. It was also interesting to note the comment about the NJ tomatoes being inconsistent.

Peter

Peter,

I thought you would have seen that article.  I thought that article was interesting too in that it compared the two De Lorenzo locations while they both were in operation.  I also thought that comment was interesting about the NJ tomatoes being inconsistent.

I did send Anthony Scillia the man that is in the group “men that dine” a message on facebook, partically asking about how the crust tasted and wanted to see what he thought if they might have baked the pizzas in two decks.  Anthony has tried pizzas all over NY and NJ alone, with his wife, or with the “men that dine” group.  This is what Anthony replied to me.

I agree that as a whole the pizza is tasty. The crust alone is basic yet crispy. I didn't see them making the pizza. Scott didn't measure that I can remember. I've only ever been to the one on Hudson not to the other location yet. It was almost 3 years ago that they closed.

I also sent Scott Wiener some questions on facebook in a message about the time “the men who dine” and Scott went to De Lorenzo's on Hudson.  This is what he said. 

hey Norma! Delo's on Hudson I think made 14" pies. Maybe 16" max but probably 14. You can call Delo's in Robbinsville and ask for Sam, he's the son and knows all the details. Definitely oil in the dough. Agree that crust was just OK but nice texture. I remember them using a single Blodget deck oven around 550. Hamilton Delo's not as good as Hudson/Robbinsville. Send me your email or email me at scott@scottspizzatours.com and I'll send you some photos! I just found a bunch of good ones including oven, temp, etc. We shall solve this riddle!!!

Norma

Offline BenLee

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #230 on: August 19, 2013, 10:49:46 AM »
I wouldn't call the Delorenzo's operations competitors.  Both have loyal customer bases and are packed every night.  Their businesses are saturated with customers.  From my understanding, the two families don't really have much of a relationship at all. 

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #231 on: August 19, 2013, 12:30:24 PM »
You are sure doing a full-scale investigation of those Robbinsville photos.  ;D Thanks for posting all that you saw and noted in those photos.  It is interesting what you noted from those photos.
Norma,

To add to what I reported from my study of the photos, one of our members, MTPIZZA, reported some time ago in the Trenton thread  that De Lorenzo's put semolina on the bottoms of the dough boxes into which the dough balls were placed and that the semolina side always became the bottoms of the pizzas. I looked for the use of the semolina in the dough boxes and maybe the photos at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3158_JPG.htm and http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3159_JPG.htm show that. But I can't be sure. Also, from later reports, it appears that it was not semolina that was used but rather cornmeal. That cornmeal was described as being very light in color and with a fine grind. The latter is what raised doubts in my mind what was in the two different sized bowls in the workstations. My original thinking was that maybe the two bowls contained flour for dusting the dough balls, possibly the larger bowl for larger dough balls and the smaller one for smaller dough balls. In this vein, please take a look at the photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3161_JPG.htm and tell me whether you think the dough balls shown below the stone slab in the exposed top dough box look bigger than the ones resting at the back of the stone slab?

Peter
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 04:40:21 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #232 on: August 19, 2013, 05:19:31 PM »
I remember it tasting like Maggio Mozzarella, but we saw Sargento bags at Hudson ave one day.
BenLee,

Did you mean Sorrento instead of Sargento?

Reply 133 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg46797/topicseen.html#msg46797

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #233 on: August 19, 2013, 05:57:33 PM »
Norma,

To add to what I reported from my study of the photos, one of our members, MTPIZZA, reported some time ago in the Trenton thread  that De Lorenzo's put semolina on the bottoms of the dough boxes into which the dough balls were placed and that the semolina side always became the bottoms of the pizzas. I looked for the use of the semolina in the dough boxes and maybe the photos at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3158_JPG.htm and http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3159_JPG.htm show that. But I can't be sure. Also, from later reports, it appears that it was not semolina that was used but rather cornmeal. That cornmeal was described as being very light in color and with a fine grind. The latter is what raised doubts in my mind what was in the two different sized bowls in the workstations. My original thinking was that maybe the two bowls contained flour for dusting the dough balls, possibly the larger bowl for larger dough balls and the smaller one for smaller dough balls. In this vein, please take a look at the photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3161_JPG.htm and tell me whether you think the dough balls shown below the stone slab in the exposed top dough box look bigger than the ones resting at the back of the stone slab?

Peter

Peter,

I recall that MTPIZZA reported some time ago in the Trenton thread that De Lorezno's put semolina on the bottoms of the dough boxes into which the dough balls were placed and that the semolina side always became the bottoms of the pizzas.  I also think the photos you linked to do show semolina.  I wonder how it could be cornmeal, but you might be right.  I would think semolina would have been used more than cornmeal years ago. 

It is hard for me to be able to see if those dough balls are different sizes in the link you gave.  It could be the way the photo was taken that they might appear to be different sizes.  If the next consecutive photo is looked at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3162_JPG.htm  it appears to my eyes that they are all the same sizes.  Those photos were a promotional Shoot by Kraml Design, so I would not think they would show different size dough balls, but I could be wrong. 

Norma


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #234 on: August 19, 2013, 06:10:07 PM »
Norma,

My comment on the cornmeal came From Reply 172 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg145168.html#msg145168 .However, that doesn't mean the server got it right even though he was a dough maker.

Reply 176 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg167142.html#msg167142 also talks about the cornmeal.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 06:01:11 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #235 on: August 19, 2013, 06:40:23 PM »
Norma,

My comment on the cornmeal came From Reply 172 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg145168.html#msg145168.

However, that doesn't mean the server got it wrong even though he was a dough maker.

Reply 176 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg167142.html#msg167142 also talks about the cornmeal.

Peter

Peter,

Your first link didn't take me to Reply 172, but I saw Reply 172.

I see what you mean by what  bfx9 posted though about the cornmeal in Reply 176. 

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #236 on: August 19, 2013, 06:41:17 PM »
This was posted by pauliegee123 today.  http://instagram.com/p/dNfKtVlu9I/  I am glad I got to eat at the old Papa's Tomato Pies.  Now Pa Pa's Tomato Pies has moved to Robbinsville too.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:48:39 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #237 on: August 19, 2013, 07:48:03 PM »
These are the four photos Scott Wiener sent me in a email tonight of Delo's at Hudson.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #238 on: August 19, 2013, 08:13:29 PM »
BenLee,

Did you mean Sorrento instead of Sargento?

Reply 133 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg46797/topicseen.html#msg46797

Peter

Now, that you mention it, I have no idea.  I'm actually dyslexic so I wouldn't trust what I read to say one or the other.  I have to read everything twice before I get it right.

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #239 on: August 20, 2013, 08:53:40 PM »
Norma,

As part of my ongoing research, I found this eGullet thread on De Lorenzo/Hudson/Robbinsville: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/111573-big-changes-at-delorenzos-in-trenton/. What is most noteworthy about this thread is the reference to the "Pilsbury's bakers best flour". I believe that flour is the one I previously mentioned and found at the GM website at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/best-bakers-patent-flour-bleached-bromated-enriched-malted-50-lb/133054000?mct=Flour&ct=pizza&typ=Category. I also believe that JoeyBagadonuts meant that same flour, but with a somewhat different name (Pillsbury Best Bakers Patent High Gluten Flour), in his post at Reply 176 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg167142.html#msg167142. As previously mentioned, that flour has a protein content of 12.9%. In your case, a blend of the Kyrol (14%) and Occident (12.2%) flours should make a good match, and it will be both bleached and bromated, just like the Pillsbury flour.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #240 on: August 20, 2013, 09:09:10 PM »
Now, that you mention it, I have no idea.  I'm actually dyslexic so I wouldn't trust what I read to say one or the other.  I have to read everything twice before I get it right.

My wife said the bags had a pink logo, if that helps.

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #241 on: August 20, 2013, 09:54:39 PM »
My wife said the bags had a pink logo, if that helps.
BenLee,

As between Sorrento and Sargento, I would pick Sorrento because it has a very large foodservice division. Sargento has a foodservice division but it does not place high in the foodservice pecking order. It is very strong in the retail cheese business.

Peter


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #242 on: August 20, 2013, 10:23:25 PM »
Norma,

As part of my ongoing research, I found this eGullet thread on De Lorenzo/Hudson/Robbinsville: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/111573-big-changes-at-delorenzos-in-trenton/. What is most noteworthy about this thread is the reference to the "Pilsbury's bakers best flour". I believe that flour is the one I previously mentioned and found at the GM website at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/best-bakers-patent-flour-bleached-bromated-enriched-malted-50-lb/133054000?mct=Flour&ct=pizza&typ=Category. I also believe that JoeyBagadonuts meant that same flour, but with a somewhat different name (Pillsbury Best Bakers Patent High Gluten Flour), in his post at Reply 176 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg167142.html#msg167142. As previously mentioned, that flour has a protein content of 12.9%. In your case, a blend of the Kyrol (14%) and Occident (12.2%) flours should make a good match, and it will be both bleached and bromated, just like the Pillsbury flour.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for doing more research!  That is an interesting thread on egullet.  I did see something else about De Lorenzo's on egullet, but not that thread. 

Besides Jeff L positng on the egullet forum about the Pillsbury's Baker Best flour, he also posts that they do use Maggio commerical size cheese and the redpack/6-in-1 tomato sauce blend.  Then Rick Pawlak posts that he saw Sorrento mozzarellla at the Robbinsville location and was surprised it was a consumer brand. 

Trenton Bill told me he knows who is the distributor of the Pillsbury flour that the Robbinsville De Lorenzo's location gets there flour from because he talks to that distributor sometimes, but I forgot what the name of the distributor is.

I was busy today and had to put some pizzas in my top deck oven, besides the bottom deck of my oven. The pizzas then were transferred to the bottom deck when the ones on the bottom deck were baked.  Those transferred pies did bake differently and had more of a crispy bottom.

The only Kyrol flour I have is old and all I use that for is bench flour. 

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #243 on: August 21, 2013, 06:23:49 AM »
Norma,

I did see the Pawlek eGullet post but didn't comment on it since it was over five years old. I believe that Robbinsville is now using Grande cheese. But it is stil good to know that other cheeses have worked. It also looks like a 6-in-1/RedPack combo is a viable one. And maybe we have finally zeroed in on the type and brand of flour.

Do you have any other flour with a protein content above 12.2%? If not, for now you might use the Kyrol for your test.

I have also been researching olive oils. I have read several articles that talk about De Lorenzo drizzling olive oil on their pizzas, and some of the photos and videos show some type of oil being swirled onto the pizzas using squeeze bottles or an oil can, but we have no idea as to the actual type of oil or brand used. It might even be a blend, as was previously mentioned by one of our members. I mention the oil because I wonder whether the same oil, or blend, is used in the dough as on the pizzas. Logically, it would seem to make sense to use only one type of oil, not two. And since olive oil is perhaps the best type of oil to put on a pizza, for taste reasons, I am inclined to believe that De Lorenzo's uses olive oil or an olive oil blend.

In the above vein, I studied the Robbinsville photos with the oil matter specifically in mind. Just from the color of the oil in the squeeze bottle containers, I would say that it is not soybean oil or canola oil. They are very light in color. The De Lorenzo oil also is not green or golden in color either, as are many olive oils. To my eye, the De Lorenzo oil, or blend, seems to match up best with a pomace olive oil. That is a type of oil that a foodservice firm would carry. When I have a chance today, I will post up links to a few photos that show pomace olive oils that look to my eye to be of the same color as the De Lorenzo oil.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #244 on: August 21, 2013, 07:35:21 AM »
Norma,

Here are a few links that show various brands of olive pomace oils. For color comparison purposes, I used the Robbinsville photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3161_JPG.htm.

http://img.21food.com/img/product/2010/6/14/olivelinecn-23360310.jpg

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/olive-pomace-oil-1-gallon/101OLIVEPOMC.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=COirvPOxjrkCFcFj7AodmDAAYQ

http://www.pathosolives.co.uk/images/products/Olive-Pomace-Oil-5L-Barrel.jpg

http://www.amway.in/Images/products/2013024115054-pri-olive-big.jpg

The above links are by no means exhaustive. If you do a Google Image search on olive pomace oil, you will find many more examples of olive pomace oils with good color matches. You will also see the broad range of olive pomace oils.

I might add that pomace oils can come in different colors, from light green to almost brown, and can be made from olives from many different countries. Since olive pomace oil is not the first press, and since olive pomace oils are usually processed to provide a fairly neutral flavor, some producers add a high quality olive oil to produce a more flavorful product. The advantage to end users is primarily cost but with perceived health benefits as compared with other oils. I recall privately advising two pizza operators who were looking to cut costs, but still use an olive oil, to switch to olive pomace oils. They did so and reported back that they could not tell the difference. They were using the olive pomace oil in their doughs but I think they should also work on top of a pizza. I have never used olive pomace oil personally (it is not a supermarket product) so I can't speak from personal knowledge. However, for your purposes, I would use a quality olive oil, either alone or in an 80/20 olive oil/canola oil blend.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #245 on: August 21, 2013, 08:07:44 AM »
Norma,

I did see the Pawlek eGullet post but didn't comment on it since it was over five years old. I believe that Robbinsville is now using Grande cheese. But it is stil good to know that other cheeses have worked. It also looks like a 6-in-1/RedPack combo is a viable one. And maybe we have finally zeroed in on the type and brand of flour.

Do you have any other flour with a protein content above 12.2%? If not, for now you might use the Kyrol for your test.

I have also been researching olive oils. I have read several articles that talk about De Lorenzo drizzling olive oil on their pizzas, and some of the photos and videos show some type of oil being swirled onto the pizzas using squeeze bottles or an oil can, but we have no idea as to the actual type of oil or brand used. It might even be a blend, as was previously mentioned by one of our members. I mention the oil because I wonder whether the same oil, or blend, is used in the dough as on the pizzas. Logically, it would seem to make sense to use only one type of oil, not two. And since olive oil is perhaps the best type of oil to put on a pizza, for taste reasons, I am inclined to believe that De Lorenzo's uses olive oil or an olive oil blend.

In the above vein, I studied the Robbinsville photos with the oil matter specifically in mind. Just from the color of the oil in the squeeze bottle containers, I would say that it is not soybean oil or canola oil. They are very light in color. The De Lorenzo oil also is not green or golden in color either, as are many olive oils. To my eye, the De Lorenzo oil, or blend, seems to match up best with a pomace olive oil. That is a type of oil that a foodservice firm would carry. When I have a chance today, I will post up links to a few photos that show pomace olive oils that look to my eye to be of the same color as the De Lorenzo oil.

Peter

Norma,

Here are a few links that show various brands of olive pomace oils. For color comparison purposes, I used the Robbinsville photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3161_JPG.htm.

http://img.21food.com/img/product/2010/6/14/olivelinecn-23360310.jpg

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/olive-pomace-oil-1-gallon/101OLIVEPOMC.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=COirvPOxjrkCFcFj7AodmDAAYQ

http://www.pathosolives.co.uk/images/products/Olive-Pomace-Oil-5L-Barrel.jpg

http://www.amway.in/Images/products/2013024115054-pri-olive-big.jpg

The above links are by no means exhaustive. If you do a Google Image search on olive pomace oil, you will find many more examples of olive pomace oils with good color matches. You will also see the broad range of olive pomace oils.

I might add that pomace oils can come in different colors, from light green to almost brown, and can be made from olives from many different countries. Since olive pomace oil is not the first press, and since olive pomace oils are usually processed to provide a fairly neutral flavor, some producers add a high quality olive oil to produce a more flavorful product. The advantage to end users is primarily cost but with perceived health benefits as compared with other oils. I recall privately advising two pizza operators who were looking to cut costs, but still use an olive oil, to switch to olive pomace oils. They did so and reported back that they could not tell the difference. They were using the olive pomace oil in their doughs but I think they should also work on top of a pizza. I have never used olive pomace oil personally (it is not a supermarket product) so I can't speak from personal knowledge. However, for your purposes, I would use a quality olive oil, either alone or in an 80/20 olive oil/canola oil blend.

Peter

Peter,

What makes you believe that the Robbinsville location is now using Grande cheese?  Did someone report that other than the one person that mentioned that on the Trenton thread?  I thought you said the Grande shredded packages don't contain a name on the plastic bags on the Trenton thread.

I do have the All Trumps flour that is above 12.2%.  The Kyrol flour has some hard balls in it now, so that is why I am only using it for bench flour.
 
Thanks for researching oils you think De Lorenzo's at the Robbinsville location might be using.  I see the oil looks like a olive pomace oil.  You have a good eye, because I would not have been able to tell what kind of oil that was in that container from the link you posted.  I will have to purchase some to try.  I never tried olive pomace oil before.  It would save me money too if I used a olive pomace oil in my dough, instead of the olive oil I am using.

I did get an email back from Joe Kelley this morning.  This is what he said.
Hello Norma,

Best Bakers is a Pillsbury brand patent flour.  It has a lower protein content than our High Gluten flours like All Trumps.  It has traditionally been used as a high quality bread flour but works very well for pan/Greek style pizza as well as tomato pies.

Are you looking for yourself or another forum user?

Thanks,

Joe

BTW, did you think those dough balls were different sizes in the photos you referenced before?

I also was invited by Scott Wiener to the big fund raising event in NYC.  This is the email he sent me.
Wow I've always heard there was a Trenton/Jersey Shore connection and I guess this is it! I think Marucas buys their mozz and ages it 6 months to soften it. I tried an experiment with a block of Polly-o and it did get really soft and creamy. Interesting their website says mozzarella but they use white cheddar. WOW 45 lbs per block is a lot of cheese! All very interesting. I really can't wait to meet you in person -- I am going to learn a TON!

Hope to meet you soon! Actually, we're doing a big fundraising event in Manhattan on October 9 and I wonder if you're interested in participating in some way. We get 35 or so of the city's best pizzerias to donate pizza and the slices go for $1 each. All the money goes to the local food bank. Last year we raised $13,800 and this year we're going to hit $20,000. Let me know if you'd like to come volunteer for the event! Either way, spread the word because this event is all about great pizza and I know that's very near and dear to you!

www.sliceouthunger.org

Talk soon,
Scott

I sure would like to volunteer at the sliceouthunger event and be able to meet Scott Wiener in person.  ;D  I have to see what I can do about going to that event.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 08:14:52 AM by norma427 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #246 on: August 21, 2013, 09:16:11 AM »
Norma,

What makes you believe that the Robbinsville location is now using Grande cheese?  Did someone report that other than the one person that mentioned that on the Trenton thread?  I thought you said the Grande shredded packages don't contain a name on the plastic bags on the Trenton thread.
I may have jumped the gun on what Robbinsville is now using. To recapitulate, in the early days, De Lorenzo's/Hudson used the Maggio cheese. But, according to Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5223.msg44262.html#msg44262, if Chick was to be believed, De Lorenzo's/Hudson also used Grande cheese. Later, but still in the roughly 2007 timeframe, it was reported by BenLee (at Reply 133 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg46797/topicseen.html#msg46797) that De Lorenzo's was perhaps using Sorrento cheese. Since BenLee posted in Sept. 2007, before the opening of Robbinsvile (which has been around for about five years, having opened in late 2007), he must have been referring to the Hudson location. However, Pawleck at eGullet reported in March 2008 seeing the Sorrento cheese at the Robbinsville location. So, what Robbinsville is now using is up for grabs. But thanks for getting me to lay out the chronology. I will search some more to see if I can find what cheese Robbinsville is now using.

As for the markings on the bags of cheese, my understanding has always been that Grande marks its bags of shredded mozzarella cheese. You may be thinking of JoeyBagadonuts post at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg44330/topicseen.html#msg44330 or Reply 171 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg272686.html#msg272686.

I do have the All Trumps flour that is above 12.2%.  The Kyrol flour has some hard balls in it now, so that is why I am only using it for bench flour.
The All Trumps is fine. I will use that as the basis of my calculations of the amounts of the AT and Occident flours to use for your experiment.
 
I did get an email back from Joe Kelley this morning.  This is what he said.
Hello Norma,

Best Bakers is a Pillsbury brand patent flour.  It has a lower protein content than our High Gluten flours like All Trumps.  It has traditionally been used as a high quality bread flour but works very well for pan/Greek style pizza as well as tomato pies.
That is good news because it corrects the mislabeling of the description of that flour at the GM website. It was also interesting to note that the flour can be used to make tomato pies. That is right up our alley.

BTW, did you think those dough balls were different sizes in the photos you referenced before?
I am leaning to yes. Part of it is that I am hard pressed to recall any pizza operator who uses one size dough ball to make more than one size of a given style of pizza. Some may use the same dough to make two different styles (such as a Chicago deep-dish and a Chicago thin) but not two sizes of the same style. At least that I can recall. Also, Rick De Lorenzo was also very assertive on this point in his response to you at his Facebook page. Now I am looking for evidence beyond the eyewitness account of one of our members who originally suggested that only one size dough ball was used by De Lorenzo's to make both sizes of pizzas that they are actually doing that. Ultimately, I think that this is a matter that can easily be resolved by trying to make a 14" pizza and a 16" pizza from the same size dough ball. If the 16" is a cracker rather than something between say, a cracker style and a NY style, then that should end the matter.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 12:57:49 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #247 on: August 21, 2013, 09:56:44 AM »
Norma,

Following up on my last post, you no doubt are aware of the article at http://mainlinepizzaquest.blogspot.com/2012/01/review-delorenzos-tomato-pies-hudson-st.html since I saw your mug shot in the comments section :-D. As you know, that article, which was close to the day that De Lorenzo's closed at Hudson (1/15/12), said that De Lorenzo's/Hudson was using Sargento cheese. However, the first commentor corrected the article by saying that the cheese was Sorrento cheese, not Sargento cheese. If the commenter was correct, that increases the likelihood that Robbinsville went with the Sorrento cheese also, since there would not have been a reason not to do so, and especially since Robbinsville in all material aspects beyond the more modern setting and using new Blodgett ovens seemed to be copying everything that was being done at the time at the Hudson location. I might be wrong and Robbinsville might have gone to another cheese at some point, so more evidence is needed to nail this down.

BTW, in the article at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/DTP-MidNJMag-June-2013.pdf, Sam said that he wanted the Robbinsville restaurant to stay true to the original in Trenton, to the point where when the restaurant was under construction he would bring a five gallon jug of water with him on his trips between Trenton and Robbinsville to see if the new water faucets changed the way the pizzas turned out. 

Peter
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 07:56:54 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #248 on: August 21, 2013, 10:05:14 AM »
Peter,

Thank you for laying out the chronology about the cheese that De Lorenzo's might be use. 

I will reply to your posts more later when I get home from taking my mother to the eye doctor, but I wanted to know Joey Kelley sent me another email.  This is what it said.

Hi Norma,

Please send me your address again and I will ship you a sample of the Best Bakers to try out.  The dough will not stretch as thinly as dough made from All Trumps but it will create more volume when baked which should hopefully give you the tomato pie you have been looking for.

Thank you,
Joe Kelley

Guess I will get to try out the real flour that De Lorezno's is using.  ;D

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #249 on: August 21, 2013, 10:18:59 AM »
You sweet talker you.  :)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


 

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